The Times got more than two decades worth of Trump's tax returns.

[TwinIon]

I agree that it's a huge problem if Trumps taxes are even plausibly legal. If only we'd nominated someone with a plan for that...

[Jason]

21 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

There's something she's very very very wrong on:

 

Trump's not a billionaire. 

 

 

People on Twitter are like "wow who are you and what have you done with Ann Coulter" but she's obviously just shitting on Democrats for not doing things that Republicans always block them on (and which Republicans just made worse in 2017).

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

2 hours ago, Chris- said:

There’s some of that good shit @Emperor Diocletian II

 

Alright - I'll have to spend some time with that later today.

[SuperSpreader]

6 minutes ago, Emperor Diocletian II said:

 

Alright - I'll have to spend some time with that later today.

🍷 🍫 📃

[cusideabelincoln]

 

 

On 9/28/2020 at 12:58 PM, TwinIon said:

I haven't seen any real allegations of criminal activity, but from what I can tell the IRS started auditing Trump a decade ago, and I'd imagine that they'd be the ones to find issues with his taxes, right?

 

 

I think there's a real chance this story does matter to some degree. Sure, much of the Trump cult can't be swayed, but this story reminds me of the Ukraine call in that it has a very simple lead: your billionaire President pays less federal income tax than you do. The technicalities about consulting fees or avoidance vs evasion or whatever else don't matter nearly as much as the instinctual reaction that it feels wrong. There was a good deal of that reaction to Mitt Romney's taxes, and he was paying millions, it just added up to a smaller percent of his income than most people pay. Here, there's no ambiguity or math to do. You don't need to pull out your own tax documents and figure out what percent you pay for comparison. If you pay federal income tax, you almost certainly paid more than president moneybags, living that ridiculous luxury lifestyle that he's spent decades making his brand.

 

I'm not expecting huge swings in voter opinion, if a disastrous hurricane response, putting kids in cages, impeachment, a bungled pandemic, and everything else can't move his approval rating more than a point or two, this probably won't either. Still, I think there are a lot of Trump voters that keep finding reasons to not like him, and this will probably register.

 

A lot of feedback I see in my local (pro-Trump) area is basically "WHO CARES ABOUT HIS TAXES".

[ort]

I'm also seeing a lot of...

 

"They said his taxes would show ties to Russia and they don't! YOU LOSE LOSERS! HA HA HA! Everything the left has is lies!"

[Spork3245]

18 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

 

 

 

A lot of feedback I see in my local (pro-Trump) area is basically "WHO CARES ABOUT HIS TAXES".

17 minutes ago, ort said:

I'm also seeing a lot of...

 

"They said his taxes would show ties to Russia and they don't! YOU LOSE LOSERS! HA HA HA! Everything the left has is lies!"

I’m seeing “everyone pays the least amount in taxes they possibly can! What’s the big deal?”

[cusideabelincoln]

10 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

I’m seeing “everyone pays the least amount in taxes they possibly can! What’s the big deal?”

 

Yep, along with "he's not doing anything illegal so he's a genius!"

[Spork3245]

5 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

 

Yep, along with "he's not doing anything illegal so he's a genius!"

My favorite is “you get taxed on income, not wealth!” 

[Ghost_MH]

5 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

Yep, along with "he's not doing anything illegal so he's a genius!"

 

That's why the coverage should be about how he's not a billionaire and maybe not even a millionaires when taking his debt into account. 

 

It would also be hilarious to watch him break down over it. It's the only thing he actually cares about. 

[cusideabelincoln]

8 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

That's why the coverage should be about how he's not a billionaire and maybe not even a millionaires when taking his debt into account. 

 

It would also be hilarious to watch him break down over it. It's the only thing he actually cares about. 

 

Oh hell yeah.  The coverage should totally be attacking him, as others have mentioned "Trump isn't a billionaire he just played one on TV".  The second NYT article lays out his plan to be entirely brand-focused.  Use that against him.

 

I would also like to see people point out his big ponzi schemes, but sadly I think most people, especially his base, don't even know what ponzi, MLM, and pyramid schemes are.

[cusideabelincoln]

On 9/28/2020 at 1:49 PM, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Related

 

So, is this an honest time to actually thank Obama*?

 

*Republican-controlled Senate

[legend]

21 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

I would also like to see people point out his big ponzi schemes, but sadly I think most people, especially his base, don't even know what ponzi, MLM, and pyramid schemes are.

 

[Jason]

45 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

That's why the coverage should be about how he's not a billionaire and maybe not even a millionaires when taking his debt into account. 

 

It would also be hilarious to watch him break down over it. It's the only thing he actually cares about. 

 

Yup. Jokes about his wealth were literally the only thing he put off limits for his Comedy Central Roast. Jokes about him being creepy with Ivanka were fine, but absolutely no jokes about him possibly not being as rich as he claims.

[sexy_shapiro]

Yeah, don’t make it about his make this about his taxes. Make it about how he’s not the rich person he pretends to be. And even better if you can tie that into the real reason why he ran, to funnel money back into his business.
 

“Trump didn’t run to Make America Great Again. He ran to Make Trump Rich Again. Because according to his tax returns, he ain’t as rich as he says he is.”

[cusideabelincoln]

16 minutes ago, sexy_shapiro said:

Yeah, don’t make it about his make this about his taxes. Make it about how he’s not the rich person he pretends to be. And even better if you can tie that into the real reason why he ran, to funnel money back into his business.
 

“Trump didn’t run to Make America Great Again. He ran to Make Trump Rich Again. Because according to his tax returns, he ain’t as rich as he says he is.”

 

Fire up the conspiracy theorists:

 

"In 2022 Trump owes half a billion dollars in debt, guess what happens if he's President when that time comes..."

[TwinIon]

I never watched the Apprentice when it was on TV, and I can't say I knew much about Trump at the time, but I do remember wondering why a billionaire would want to do a reality TV show. I assumed he was doing it for fun or to stroke his ego, because it didn't make any sense to me that it could possibly be as profitable as whatever made him a billionaire in the first place.

 

The idea that reality television may have been the only good and profitable business decision that Trump has ever made really makes sense in retrospect.

[mclumber1]

38 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

I never watched the Apprentice when it was on TV, and I can't say I knew much about Trump at the time, but I do remember wondering why a billionaire would want to do a reality TV show. I assumed he was doing it for fun or to stroke his ego, because it didn't make any sense to me that it could possibly be as profitable as whatever made him a billionaire in the first place.

 

The idea that reality television may have been the only good and profitable business decision that Trump has ever made really makes sense in retrospect.

 

The people on Shark Tank seem to be genuinely wealthy and (not as) braggadocios as Trump is. 

[Ghost_MH]

4 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

The people on Shark Tank seem to be genuinely wealthy and (not as) braggadocios as Trump is. 

 

Yeah but assuming they are playing with their own money, that show is literally about a bunch of rich folks trying to make a buck off random people begging for change. The last time I saw a clip, I think they were talking about how they all lost out on not investing in Ring or something. It makes WAY more sense than a literally reality show following contestants over the course of a season like it was The Bachelor.

[SilentWorld]

With the exception of Mark Cuban, I don't think any of the other guys on the Shark Tank are nearly as rich as they like to come off and definitely not as rich as Donald Trump pretends to be. I'm not saying they're not wealthy, but I'd bet that rather than being billionaires, they're pretty much all worth less than $100 million and probably less than $50 million, and (like Trump) the majority of their income comes from their celebrity status rather than from their businesses. 

[SuperSpreader]

1 minute ago, SilentWorld said:

With the exception of Mark Cuban, I don't think any of the other guys on the Shark Tank are nearly as rich as they like to come off and definitely not as rich as Donald Trump pretends to be. I'm not saying they're not wealthy, but I'd bet that rather than being billionaires, they're pretty much all worth less than $100 million and probably less than $50 million, and (like Trump) the majority of their income comes from their celebrity status rather than from their businesses. 

[SilentWorld]

Just now, SlipperySlope said:

 

Herjavec is a perfect example. He sold a company he was involved with for thirty million dollars a couple decades ago (and who knows how much of that money actually went into his pocket verses other investors or lenders), then went on to found The Herjavec Group and now claims to be worth hundreds of millions. Perhaps. But, like the Trump Organization, The Herjavec Group is privately held. If there was some way to know for sure, I'd bet he's worth less than the $200 million he claims. 

[Jason]

Just now, SilentWorld said:

 

Herjavec is a perfect example. He sold a company he was involved with for thirty million dollars a couple decades ago (and who knows how much of that money actually went into his pocket verses other investors or lenders), then went on to found The Herjavec Group and now claims to be worth hundreds of millions. Perhaps. But, like the Trump Organization, The Herjavec Group is privately held. If there was some way to know for sure, I'd bet he's worth less than the $200 million he claims. 

 

Being worth only tens of millions probably still means you're worth more than Trump though.

[Spork3245]

7 hours ago, SilentWorld said:

With the exception of Mark Cuban, I don't think any of the other guys on the Shark Tank are nearly as rich as they like to come off and definitely not as rich as Donald Trump pretends to be. I'm not saying they're not wealthy, but I'd bet that rather than being billionaires, they're pretty much all worth less than $100 million and probably less than $50 million, and (like Trump) the majority of their income comes from their celebrity status rather than from their businesses. 

None of them claim to be billionaires except for Cuban. They all claim in the 50-100+ million range (they might claim more now, though?). Like, before Cuban joined the show, the richest one there was O’Leary who currently has a net-worth of $400 million, but I think during the first couple seasons was in the $200-250 million range (I think when I looked back when the show first started it was $180-ish? Not completely sure). Damon is almost definitely worth his $250-300 claim with the clothing and liquor brands he owns. None of them really have all that crazy of a claim on their net worth, IMO (like Barbara only claims at $80 million net-worth). If you’re talking about cash on hand and not net worth, though, then yea.

[mclumber1]

The moral of the story though is, every Shark Tanker is more wealthy than Trump.

[Oberon]

3 hours ago, mclumber1 said:

The moral of the story though is, every Shark Tanker is more wealthy than Trump.

The homeless guy down the street for me is wealthier than Trump

[TwinIon]

17 hours ago, mclumber1 said:

The people on Shark Tank seem to be genuinely wealthy and (not as) braggadocios as Trump is. 

Well, while I dramatically overestimated Trump's own worth (which was kinda the point), I also underestimated how profitable TV can be, especially when you capitalize on the name recognition like Trump did.

[Jason]

Donald Trump Has At Least $1 Billion In Debt, More Than Twice The Amount He Suggested

WWW.FORBES.COM

---

The president’s liabilities are spelled out in dozens of documents, published here.

 

Quote

Some people also like to suggest that Deutsche Bank is the only institution willing to lend to Trump. That’s not true. The president’s creditors include at least six other institutions, two of which began or reworked deals while the president was in office.  

 

One reason for all the confusion: Trump’s loans are not fully transparent. It’s still unclear to whom he owes an estimated $162 million against his skyscraper in San Francisco, for example. The loan against 1290 Avenue of the Americas is also something of a mystery. And it’s difficult to pin down the amount the president owes on a loan tied to his Bedford, New York, mansion. When asked about all of this, the Trump Organization did not respond.  

 

[Guest]

I’ve never seen personal guarantees on business debt referred to as debt for the individual until this Trump taxes stuff. You certainly can’t claim those business debt payments on your personal taxes.

[Jason]

3 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

I’ve never seen personal guarantees on business debt referred to as debt for the individual until this Trump taxes stuff.

 

Because unlike with most businesses there's no real meaningful separation between Trump's business finances and his personal finances.

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

 

Because unlike with most businesses there's no real meaningful separation between Trump's business finances and his personal finances.

In what way? Seems like a pretty typical privately held operation with a small ownership group. Separate from his actual business shenanigans, but just in terms of how it is legally set up. Is there something in particular that makes you think the separation is different than a typical situation?

[Jason]

7 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

In what way? Seems like a pretty typical privately held operation with a small ownership group. Separate from his actual business shenanigans, but just in terms of how it is legally set up. Is there something in particular that makes you think the separation is different than a typical situation?

 

Haircuts aren't a legitimate business expense, for starters. 

[Jason]

Also, you know, all the reporting ever about how he runs his business. 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, Jason said:

 

Haircuts aren't a business expense, for starters. 

Haircuts absolutely can be a business expense. Whether his are is up for debate. Were I his tax attorney dealing with the auditors, I’d argue his dopey hairdo is part of the brand of the business.

[Jason]

5 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Haircuts absolutely can be a business expense. Whether his are is up for debate. We’re i his tax attorney dealing with the auditors, I’d argue his dopey hairdo is part of the brand of the business.

 

Sounds like somebody needs an audit. 🤔