General Gaming Black Myth: Wukong (PC/PS5/Xbox Series) - update (09/02): Xbox version delay reportedly due to "prioritization" of PS5 version

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

2 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

So if total "Series" sales are ~30 million, that would put Series X sales at around 7.5 million?

No wonder MS is unwilling to compromise on Series S ports.

 

That would appear to be the case, at least at the point in time when that data was relevant though I really can't imagine that ratio has changed all that significantly.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

5 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Could this be because they bothered to offer a Series S version in the first place? If they hadn't, how many do you think would not buy the Series X instead anyway vs. not buying an Xbox at all? Sounds more like a hindrance holding developers back collectively than a good idea to sell low rent systems because they're cheaper. But it certainly could be the case - I just think gamers are cheap and had there been no Series S option, they would have forced themselves to buy the Series X one. They are gamers after all. 

 

The existence of the Series S really serves only one purpose: a relatively affordable gateway to the GamePass ecosystem.

 

That's its entire raison d'être.  It really doesn't matter that it compromises certain aspects of multiplatform development.  From Microsoft's perspective, who gives a rip when it gets people into the consistent. constant revenue stream of GamePass?

[Greatoneshere]

Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

The existence of the Series S really serves only one purpose: a gateway to the GamePass ecosystem.

 

That's its entire raison d'être.  It really doesn't matter that it compromises certain aspects of multiplatform development.  From Microsoft's perspective, who gives a rip when it gets people into the consistent. constant revenue stream of GamePass?

 

Agreed, but if the Series S was never offered, wouldn't the Series X serve the same function for those Series S players? They'd just buy the Series X instead of the Series S if it never existed and the Series X could just as equally act as a gateway to the GamePass ecosystem, no?

[AbsolutSurgen]

@Biggie

My original response before the elmo gif (which I deleted before hitting Submit reply) was:

Why is Xbox even a thing anymore?

 

However I thought I was trolling too hard.

Given @Commissar SFLUFAN's revelation, I regret my decision.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Agreed, but if the Series S was never offered, wouldn't the Series X serve the same function for those Series S players? They'd just buy the Series X instead of the Series S if it never existed and the Series X could just as equally act as a gateway to the GamePass ecosystem, no?

 

I have confidence that Microsoft ran those projections and concluded that the Series X-only option yielded substantially lower future GamePass revenue streams.

[Mr.Vic20]

[Greatoneshere]

2 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I have confidence that Microsoft ran those projections and concluded that the Series X-only option yielded substantially lower future GamePass revenue streams.

 

Well, this is Microsoft, a major corpo - how much do we trust their projections?  

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Well, this is Microsoft, a major corpo - how much do we trust their projections?  

 

I generally give at least the benefit of the doubt that initial internal projections represent a good faith effort that takes into account the relevant data at the time.

[Greatoneshere]

1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I generally give at least the benefit of the doubt that initial internal projections represent a good faith effort that takes into account the relevant data at the time.

 

I think that's fair, but what do you think about Square Enix's past projections (different company of course) for the Tomb Raider and Deus Ex franchises in terms of game sales?

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said:

I think that's fair, but what do you think about Square Enix's past projections (different company of course) for the Tomb Raider and Deus Ex franchises in terms of game sales?

 

Obviously, those particular projections were wildly unrealistic and not based on anything resembling the past performance of those particular IPs.  This is all very much an inexact science to begin with.

[Dexterryu]

3 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Okay, curiosity is getting the better of me here, this post (and your previous ones in this thread) raise a couple of questions for me. Why are you stating that China is a different country with a different dynamic between male and female? We all know they're essentially a regressive fascist dictatorship with heavy censorship. The way you've framed this "cultural" difference argument sounds like you are "both sidesing" this issue. Yes, other countries are different. We can still pass judgment on their culture based on humane grounds of basic equal rights, parity and treatment. In fact, there are ranked lists by third party institutions done by country just for such things. Unless you're using this argument to bolster the fact that a Chinese developer potentially making a regressive game when it comes to gender is okay because it comes from a regressive culture, which it sounds like you are, is not a good look.

 

And this irritating, false argument that "this corporation or that entity" is "well within their right" to do this stupid thing or that heinous thing. This is asinine - a private corporation or country is well within their right to do all sorts of terrible things - just because something is legal or allowed doesn't mean it's good, ethical or moral. Who gives a shit what they are "within their legal right to do", as individual people and consumers, we care about what's right and wrong, not what's allowed or not allowed. Is this an argument to bolster companies and countries to be allowed to do what they want? Because, again, that would be the only reason to bring up such an obvious but pointless fact to this argument.

 

And finally, another conservative argument - if you want to champion a cause, you can only do it in certain ways or only at certain extreme levels, as if we can't care about multiple things at once. And suggesting that voting with your money alone is the only way to impact game development isn't true; a loud online majority making a big stink as one collective can affect or start the process of impacting things too (see: protests for political issues). I think it's short sighted to say: "just vote with your wallet, but don't do anything else, it's not helpful" while at the same time suggesting: "there's bigger fish to fry, we can't care about multiple things at the same time on this issue" and then name dropping the Taliban, which feels like race coded language to me, is pretty uncool (I mean the MAGA movement and Project 2025 are recent and far more relevant to us here in the US than the Taliban but you want with the Taliban for some reason). I'm not just going off of this post for this breakdown, but the other posts and what they also intimated in this thread.

All I have to say here is that it feels like you are way over thinking it. You are correct in that this is layered, especially since we are talking about a Chinese company. Let me break it down:

1. China is a different culture and different gender norms. We are judging based on our culture, and it's fine to do so. Understanding the issue  holistically is not "both sidesing". On a personal level, I enjoy media (music, games, movies) based on the media itself and not the views of the creator. I chose not to allow my political leanings to influence what or how I can enjoy something... else at a certain level I would never be able to enjoy anything. 

2. Corporations and their rights... my point is that when they choose to one thing or another, they are almost certainly to have considered the tradeoffs. In this scenario, looking at a google doc that went public is only a small slice of what likely went into the decision. Was it the government that required that? Possibly since the CCP has incredibly suffocating censorship and probably already do sensor official US press, but probably do not have a way to do that with content creators. 

3. Regarding "vote with your wallet", again that is simply the only thing that a non-US company is even going to notice. If you think a protest, petition, or any other demonstration will get their attention, then all power to you. Go for it... the point I was making, is that strategically, for such a campaign to have the desired impact would be around convincing people not to buy and hurting their bottom line. Protesting to get them to be a better company is going to fall on deaf ears because as long as people buy their games they will not do anything beyond pander (See: Activision/Blizzard).

4. Naming the Taliban (a religious fundamentalist group) is in no way racist. I simply chose them because they are an extreme example as to how brutally they treat anyone that isn't a straight religious male.

As for your judgement of what I've said or posted before. You are entitled to your opinion, but I honestly don't care if you like me, agree with me, or do not. You can claim moral high ground and if that makes you feel better somehow, then you do you. Likewise, I will continue to choose not to allow my opinions to be bullied whether they are in the passive aggressive form in this post or at least having the balls to be straight forward about it like @Xbob42 telling me to F' off.

Bottom line is, if you look for something to piss you off about any person, company, government, art, whatever, you can likely find it. That seems like a very depressing journey through life... but as I said: You do you.

[Keyser_Soze]

1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

The existence of the Series S really serves only one purpose: a relatively affordable gateway to the GamePass ecosystem.

 

That's its entire raison d'être.  It really doesn't matter that it compromises certain aspects of multiplatform development.  From Microsoft's perspective, who gives a rip when it gets people into the consistent. constant revenue stream of GamePass?

 

And if you're on game pass you could just play the cloud version on your series X which might run better than the Series S version.

[AbsolutSurgen]

Cloud gaming.

[SuperSpreader]

5 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Could this be because they bothered to offer a Series S version in the first place? If they hadn't, how many do you think would not buy the Series X instead anyway vs. not buying an Xbox at all? Sounds more like a hindrance holding developers back collectively than a good idea to sell low rent systems because they're cheaper. But it certainly could be the case - I just think gamers are cheap and had there been no Series S option, they would have forced themselves to buy the Series X one. They are gamers after all. 

 

Yes yes. This is what executives are thinking honestly.

 

Hrmmm... maybe if we just release ONLY an advanced console, but sell it for 100.00 more than the X, we will dominate!

[Bacon]

I haven't played Wukong in 3 days now.

 

Despite Chapter 4 being my favorite designed level as it feels like a Dark Souls dungeon, I feel like the enemies that aren't bosses are wasting my time. I've felt like this since chapter 2 but it didn't really start getting annoying until chapter 4 where they introduce punching bag enemies in two flavors that should really just die in one or two hits. I actually feel betrayed by all the people calling this a linear boss rush game. I was actually pretty excited about that. I was really happy with how Chapter 1 played. Sadly, it stops being that almost immediately. I am bored exploring the large areas, and I am annoyed by dealing with filler enemies in the smaller levels. The only times I find myself having fun is in boss fights which have become quite easy for me.

 

There is a "very hard boss with an inflated health pool" (not my words) in chapter 4 named Yellow Loong. I beat him in 5 or 6 tries. I would have beat him sooner but I didn't realize I wasn't in smash stance and kept trying to counter when I couldn't. I've seen people stuck on this boss for over an hour. I've seen one streamer take 18 attempts to kill it. Another took 9 minutes to drain the boss's health pool on their successful attempt. I feel like I have mostly "solved" combat. My tactic is a simple unrelenting offense.

 

A lot of bosses, this Yellow Loong included, have a second phase that lasts for a minute or so before reverting back to phase 1. If you were to look at boss fights as a song, the hard part would be anytime the song/boss enters the chorus. The thing is, you can prevent them, or massively delay them, from ever entering the chorus. Bosses seem to need some kind of "breather" to enter the chorus. Don't let them get that breather and they most likely won't enter phase 2.

 

While the smash stance thing was why I was taking damage, what killed me was being unable to find a good time to dodge and heal. The more I needed to heal, the less likely I was to beat the boss because if I needed to heal the boss was going to enter phase 2. I didn't have a lot of attempts on the boss so I never fully learned his moves and didn't know when it was safe to heal. When I beat the boss he did enter phase 2 while I was healing, but I just transformed into a creature that let you block attacks and each block made your attacks stronger. The boss was already at 30% before ever entering phase 2 and then my damaged boosted transformation let me take off the last 30% for free.

 

All of that is to say, that is how most boss fights go, that is if they even last thru my opening barrage of Pluck of Many > Immobilize > Light Combo > Cloud Step > Spirit Attack > Level 4 heavy attack. Bosses are still fun because it is fun to dominate bosses in any game, but it is a bit routine now. Rare is the boss that I have to "skill" thru rather than just overwhelm. Both the Chapter 2 and 3 ending bosses were overwhelmed rather than defeated thru a mastery of combat.

[Bacon]

I think I'll beat this tonight. Chapter 5 seems like it is going to be shorter and I've heard Chapter 6 is just bosses, thus short.

[Bacon]

Wow, chapter 5 MASSIVELY reuses enemies. Almost every trash mob is a reskinned variant that might do fire damage now. It might actually be all of them.

[Bacon]

OK I'm gonna do the final chapter tomorrow. Just did a big secret thing that took some time. It was very awesome. It outdoes what FFXVI does in this one moment. Pretty sure that secret and the final chapter are going to put this back into the 8/10 realm. A lot of good boss fights have been happening.

[Bacon]

But for the secret fight, it was a hard-fought battle. I had to change from being a spell-using fiend to becoming a spell-less martial artist. Changed my gourd to GIGA HP restore + removes status + can't be staggered out of heals, and then I changed up all of my spell-boosting passives into i-frame passives. AND THEN I STILL ONLY WON the fight because I decided to use the auto-phoenix down pill. It was a very close battle. Very epic. And the fight after that was even more awesome. It was a master class fight.

[Bacon]

One thing that is cool about a fair amount of 2-phase bosses is that the second phase is sometimes easier. Rather than making it a super hard fight, they make it... creative? A lore fight? It's interesting and a nice mix-up. That's not to say you can't die. It's still "easy" to die, just don't slack. But you can tell the devs don't really want you to restart some of these 2-phase fights.

 

There are plenty of normal 2-phase fights tho, where the second phase is harder.

[Bacon]

One thing for sure tho, you miss so much story if you haven't read JttW. There is so much just stuff that I feel lost on. The game often kinda tries to make things make enough sense so you understand the tiny bit of story it offers up, but you feel the massive missing amount of history and context.

 

And yes, I'm basically posting a review in fragmented posts as I think of them. I'm too near the end to wait on posting my thoughts as I might forget them whilst I slumber.

[crispy4000]

1 hour ago, Bacon said:

One thing that is cool about a fair amount of 2-phase bosses is that the second phase is sometimes easier. Rather than making it a super hard fight, they make it... creative? A lore fight? It's interesting and a nice mix-up. That's not to say you can't die. It's still "easy" to die, just don't slack. But you can tell the devs don't really want you to restart some of these 2-phase fights.

 

There are plenty of normal 2-phase fights tho, where the second phase is harder.

Reminds me of the way Tears of the Kingdom wrapped up.  First half of the last boss was more about difficulty, second is purely spectacle.

[Bacon]

It's still a shame there is no VA for the Destined One. It definitely not to save money. Part if me thinks it because it might confuse play in 1 specific way, but most I think it's that they didn't want a cocky monkey being cocky while dying left and right. Thankfully, we get a sidekick that does the banter so at least bosses are always just talking to a mute.

 

And all of the ENG va is honestly pretty great. Wukong is fantastic and it's why I wish the destined one spoke the most. The guy sounds so good at sounding like a monkey.

 

[SuperSpreader]

Started playing it. I don't get the big deal... It's kind of a visual mess and you can't tell where the main path is. There's all these welcoming scenes and you can't go there. Most of it looks like generic purchased props from the unreal demos.

[eventide11]

4 hours ago, SuperSpreader said:

Started playing it. I don't get the big deal... It's kind of a visual mess and you can't tell where the main path is. There's all these welcoming scenes and you can't go there. Most of it looks like generic purchased props from the unreal demos.

Yeah but you hate games now

[Bacon]

9 hours ago, SuperSpreader said:

Started playing it. I don't get the big deal... It's kind of a visual mess and you can't tell where the main path is. There's all these welcoming scenes and you can't go there. Most of it looks like generic purchased props from the unreal demos.

As I've been saying, it's UE5 slop.

[Bacon]

Taking medicine with the d-pad feels like total shit. Not sure why it doesn't just respond like the gourd, but there are times when I'm spamming the d-pad and it just doesn't happen. I almost always end up pausing the game and using the dope from the drugs menu.

[SuperSpreader]

8 hours ago, eventide11 said:

Yeah but you hate games now

 

This is why

[Bacon]

Beat it. Good finale. Epic final battles. I'll give it 8/10.

 

I've pretty much already posted my final thoughts. The ending didn't go as I expected. It was decent. People say the ending teases a sequel or DLC. I don't think so. I do think the story could be continued tho, but it could also just be the ending of this story as well. It depends on what you'd think the main character would do after the true ending.

Spoiler

Actual end-game spoilers btw

 

Spoiler

You, the reincarnation of Wukong, aren't Wukong. But as the spirit of the dead Wukong, Wukong has found true freedom, which is all he ever wanted. But at the same time, there is the jade court or whatever. Heaven is still up there fucking people over. We have freedom. Will that freedom be used to bring down the heavens? Who knows. You do get all of Wukong's memories, his, "Mind" when you defeat the secret boss, Erlang Shen. So, while the game says you aren't Wukong, you have pretty much everything that made Wukong. Who knows what will happen next?

 

 

And yeah, I think that the MC not being voiced is still lame, but it kinda makes sense. It could be confusing, but I still think he should be.

[Bacon]

Also, by UE5 slop, I just mean the graphics and stuff. Chapter 6 is peak UE5 slop. So much of it feels like an out-of-bounds area rather than an actual level. I mean, it isn't a traditional Wukong level. It's purposefully different, but it just feels so cheap after the novelty wears off.

[Bacon]

Not sure if I'm going to 100% this since you have to do most of NG+ to do so. Will leave it installed for a bit tho. But I'm pretty excited to get back into ELEX 2.

[Best]

3 minutes ago, Bacon said:

Not sure if I'm going to 100% this since you have to do most of NG+ to do so. Will leave it installed for a bit tho. But I'm pretty excited to get back into ELEX 2.

 

What framerate do you get in Elex?

[Bacon]

1 minute ago, Best said:

 

What framerate do you get in Elex?

122

it's da limit for some reason in ELEX 2

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

It appears that the delay to the Xbox version might be due to prioritization of the PS5 version because of its significant audience in Asia and that Sony might have provided technical support for the development of the PS5 version.

 

Dramatic Conflicts as Sony Accused of Signing Secret PS5 Exclusivity with Black Myth: Wukong

WWW.PUSHSQUARE.COM

---

First time? - Update #2: An interesting night of conflicting reports has brought no resolution to the idea Sony secretly paid for Black Myth: Wukong exclusiv...

 

[Bacon]

Unless they are under a contract, I'd just say fuck xbox. Doesn't seem worth it.