Time for another relic of slavery to disappear: the Electoral College

[thewhyteboar]

 

[Anathema-]

Yes.  The whole reason we give a state the vote is because the original citizens, white male landowners, would have opposed slavery as a majority and slave owners refused to join the union without protections for that institution in place. The electoral college and restrictive citizenship almost required the 3/5th's compromise -- as much as that is seen as a stain on the original document it has company that is still written onto the pages.  We stopped allowing states to choose their senators and put it on the citizens. Our values have changed. The electoral college is a set of rules based in the past and its time has come to change with our values.

[Pikachu]

[BloodyHell]

Not gonna happen. No party will ever get the votes they would need to do it in todays political climate.

[marioandsonic]

9 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

Not gonna happen. No party will ever get the votes they would need to do it in todays political climate.

 

[mclumber1]

The easiest and quickest way to dilute the power of the electoral college is to expand the House of Representatives.  That kills two birds with one stone.  And you don't even need an interstate compact or (even more difficult) a Constitutional amendment.  1 Rep for every 200,000 residents.  The House should be expanded every 10 years coinciding with the Census. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

The entire concept of the "United States of America" as a national/political entity is a relic of slavery that should disappear.

 

[Anathema-]

1 hour ago, BloodyHell said:

Not gonna happen. No party will ever get the votes they would need to do it in todays political climate.

 

The constitution doesn't have to be amended.  The interstate compact seems a bit of a joke but it would definitely work.

[CitizenVectron]

41 minutes ago, Emperor Diocletian II said:

The entire concept of the "United States of America" as a national/political entity is a relic of slavery that should disappear.

 

 

Would you prefer to see 50 independent nations, or regional compacts that mirror the original USA (a few states that share a top level of government for foreign policy purposes, but otherwise retain lots of local power)?

[mclumber1]

12 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

 

The constitution doesn't have to be amended.  The interstate compact seems a bit of a joke but it would definitely work.

 

Until it falls apart.  You know that a state will eventually get butt hurt about the results of an election and having to cast their EVs to a candidate they don't like.  As soon as that happens, that state's legislature will pull out of the compact for the next election.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

29 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Would you prefer to see 50 independent nations, or regional compacts that mirror the original USA (a few states that share a top level of government for foreign policy purposes, but otherwise retain lots of local power)?

 

There is absolutely no way that the states remain intact as political entities should fragmentation occur as  there are significant political division within many of the states themselves.  Fragmentation could probably occur right down to the county or municipal level.

[CitizenVectron]

7 minutes ago, Emperor Diocletian II said:

 

There is absolutely no way that the states remain intact as political entities should fragmentation occur as  there are significant political division within many of the states themselves.  Fragmentation could probably occur right down to the county or municipal level.

 

Good point. Better bring in French and British representatives from 1918 to figure out the borders.

[mclumber1]

Canada will dissolve before America does.  

[Zaku3]

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Good point. Better bring in French and British representatives from 1918 to figure out the borders.

In before the NATO intervention in the US. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Gonna take consecutive losses in a purple Texas before this happens realistically. 

[CitizenVectron]

2 hours ago, mclumber1 said:

Canada will dissolve before America does.  

 

Unlikely. While Canada may have bigger regional differences on the surface, we also have a more flexible constitution and separation/delegation of powers. Our current constitution is only 38 years old and only requires the consent of Parliament and the affected provinces to change. So some provinces can have sections amended to only apply to them, etc. More major parts require larger consent (50% of provinces which have at least half the population of the country, plus Parliament).

 

On top of this, independence in Quebec has been dropping for a long time, and young Quebeckers more and more view themselves as tied in some way to Canada. Obviously this could change, but it could also change in Texas or Maine. 

 

What makes Canada one of the strongest/most agile countries in the world is our unique situation, geography,  system of government, and culture, and I don't see it changing.

 

EDIT - I also want to make it clear that I don't view these unique circumstances as superior, or making Canada superior, only that it allows Canada to be more modern and flexible, while at the same time less prone to major swings in partisanship/extremism. I also acknowledge that a huge part of why Canada can be so successful is because we don't have to spend as much money/mental energy on defense because of our geography (surrounded by three oceans) and our only neighbour being the US.

[Bloodporne]

Translation:

1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

 

[Kal-El814]

2 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Gonna take consecutive losses in a purple Texas before this happens realistically. 

 

Why Texas?

[TwinIon]

While not specifically at issue, I believe the recent SCOTUS ruling affirms the legality of the popular vote interstate compact, insofar as it basically comes down to States having the right to force electors to vote a specific way.

 

I agree that a constitutional amendment is likely impossible anytime in the foreseeable future, I think the interstate compact could get passed. 65% of Florida voted to re-enfranchise felons. I realize they're far from the same thing, but it gives me hope that the idea is plausible. 

[Chris-]

1 hour ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Why Texas?

Because adding Texas to the win column with California is like LeBron driving the lane against a five year old child. Like maybe their feeble little body will get in the way and cause enough interference to stop it, but with over a third of the EC in the bag, the GOP is getting a face full of bofa. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

1 hour ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

Why Texas?

Even just making it consistently competitive I think may cause a rethinking of how they waste millions of R voters in "blue" states. I dunno! It's not a solid theory but I can only see any Rs getting on board after Texas is no longer a layup

[Kal-El814]

2 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Even just making it consistently competitive I think may cause a rethinking of how they waste millions of R voters in "blue" states. I dunno! It's not a solid theory but I can only see any Rs getting on board after Texas is no longer a layup

 

Ah, I gotcha. That's an interesting idea. I suspect that smaller states would resist this pretty aggressively and I dunno that breaking up a state like Texas would matter in the short term since it's difficult to imagine any way for the GOP to win a popular national vote if the Texas electoral votes are going blue... fun to think about though.

[Guest]

If you lose Texas as the GOP it is likely due to changing demographics, and those would apply to the rest of the Southwest. I think a scenario in which Texas goes blue is one where the GOP candidate loses the popular vote by 10 million votes.

[Ricofoley]

Yeah, I think if Biden ends up carrying Texas by like 50.1%-49.9% a lot of Republicans will become woke to supporting a national popular vote in a hurry.

[mclumber1]

9 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

If you lose Texas as the GOP it is likely due to changing demographics, and those would apply to the rest of the Southwest. I think a scenario in which Texas goes blue is one where the GOP candidate loses the popular vote by 10 million votes.

 

The GOP cannot remain in it's current form due to changing demographics.  Obviously Trump has warped what the GOP stands for in the last 4 or so years, and they'll have to transform again.  Will they remain "conservative". Yes.  But the definition of conservatism is going to have to change.  

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

20 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

Obviously Trump has warped what the GOP stands for in the last 4 or so years

[mclumber1]

1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

 

He absolutely has on numerous issues.  Just look at the issue of free trade.  Every GOP president since at least Nixon has been pro-free trade.  Trump has upended this GOP policy and their party members have largely slurped it up like it's the best thing since sliced bread. 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

39 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

He absolutely has on numerous issues.  Just look at the issue of free trade.  Every GOP president since at least Nixon has been pro-free trade.  Trump has upended this GOP policy and their party members have largely slurped it up like it's the best thing since sliced bread. 

In tone maybe, but in substance and policy he's a typical conservative.

 

He got the usmca which is basically NAFTA with minimal changes. He's not against free trade.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

 

[MarSolo]

18 hours ago, mclumber1 said:

 

The GOP cannot remain in it's current form due to changing demographics.  Obviously Trump has warped what the GOP stands for in the last 4 or so years, and they'll have to transform again.  Will they remain "conservative". Yes.  But the definition of conservatism is going to have to change.  

 

It’s been longer than four years. Republicans were all about changing the “American born” requirement for President because Arnold was so popular as Governor of California (for some reason) and thought they could get another Reagan on their hands... until Trump started the whole birtherism bullshit in 2011.