Guest Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Fascists don't deserve the protections of civility norms. 1 hour ago, Anathema- said: It's also not trying to make him feel or seem lesser for his disability, it's an extended fuck you. It’s not about them. Mocking a person’s disability because they are a bad person doesn’t magically make it such that you aren’t mocking the disability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 We do not combat Crenshaw and his party's shitty agenda by making crude jokes. In fact, we elevate and give legitimacy to his agenda because he can go and take the moral high ground to appeal to independents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 2 minutes ago, sblfilms said: It’s not about them. Mocking a person’s disability because they are a bad person doesn’t magically make it such that you aren’t mocking the disability. They don't deserve the protections of civil society and discourse while pushing for fascism. Sorry folks this is a losing proposition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uaarkson Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 These people deserve to be shot in the streets. You guys are arguing about whether or not it’s okay to call them mean names. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: They don't deserve the protections of civil society and discourse while pushing for fascism. Sorry folks this is a losing proposition. They aren’t the only person going through life with that condition. Mocking the disability necessarily mocks all who have the same disability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 8, 2020 Author Share Posted July 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, Jose said: In fact, we elevate and give legitimacy to his agenda because he can go and take the moral high ground to appeal to independents. They'd just make something up if they needed to. https://www.thenation.com/article/politics/ilhan-omar-dismantle-oppression/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 I think we all know where I stand on this issue. I mean, I did tweet at Crenshaw that I deeply regretted that the Taliban were so very incompetent that they failed miserably at their one and only job! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentWorld Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 19 minutes ago, sblfilms said: They aren’t the only person going through life with that condition. Mocking the disability necessarily mocks all who have the same disability. I have a friend with strabismus (lazy eye) and it makes her feel uncomfortable and stigmatized when people mock Crenshaw for only having one eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaku3 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 26 minutes ago, Chris- said: I am Facebook friends with Jose and can confirm he is a passable honky. No such thing as half way crocks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Ghouls like Crenshaw don’t deserve respect, but at the same time they aren’t the ones you are trying to persuade/dissuade, and cruelty doesn’t play well to a lot of those people. A reoccurring trend on the left is a fundamental inability to understand what it takes to build a broad coalition, and that ain’t it. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 5 minutes ago, Chris- said: Ghouls like Crenshaw don’t deserve respect, but at the same time they aren’t the ones you are trying to persuade/dissuade, and cruelty doesn’t play well to a lot of those people. A reoccurring trend on the left is a fundamental inability to understand what it takes to build a broad coalition, and that ain’t it. This. It’s not about “being civil” to motherfuckers who should be strapped to rockets and fired into the cold vacuum of space. Their positions provide plenty of avenues to attack that have nothing to do with their conditions being mocked. It’s adjacent to really ugly shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 Looks like some of you think @jose looks like this guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 The irony of this all is that as you guys defend his honor he still had not said anything about Tucker, despite him being a somewhat regular guest on his program, saying Tammy duckworth hates America (Monday) and is a coward (said Tuesday) after she defended him the Monday after an SNL skit. I'd also note I don't agree with going after him for these things, but he sure as shit shouldn't be defended when it's very clearly a one way street on these norms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 15 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: The irony of this all is that as you guys defend his honor he still had not said anything about Tucker, despite him being a somewhat regular guest on his program, saying Tammy duckworth hates America (Monday) and is a coward (said Tuesday) after she defended him the Monday after an SNL skit. I'd also note I don't agree with going after him for these things, but he sure as shit shouldn't be defended when it's very clearly a one way street on these norms. Let me say it even slower it is not about Crenshaw That dude can pound sand. But your defense and even encouragement of mocking his disability is literally no different than if Jason was tweeting at Clarence Thomas and called him a spear chucker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 My insult is vastly superior because it has the value of maximum utility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexy_shapiro Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 I personally don’t mock people. I have what is considered to be a disability. And I’m also queer. I’m just a bit of an oddball in general so I know what it’s like to be an easy target. I try not to partake in that myself, but I think everyone is guilty of it to some extent from time to time. Ever laugh at W for one of his “Bush-isms”? Then congrats, you mocked someone with a processing disorder. Ever joke about how Trump doesn’t like to read? Then you have mocked someone with dyslexia (reportedly, but I can believe based on my experience working with dyslexic kids). But I care less about insults from random Twitter user and more about how those with power use their power/influence to hurt countless others who are marginalized. Dan Crenshaw’s words and actions have a much more damaging effect. And we know that COVID harms the less abled disproportionately. It’s fine to be bothered by one-eyed jokes. I’m personally not a fan either. But if you truly care about protecting the less fortunate then I would encourage you to properly place your energy towards those in power who are trying to hurt them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Chris- said: Ghouls like Crenshaw don’t deserve respect, but at the same time they aren’t the ones you are trying to persuade/dissuade, and cruelty doesn’t play well to a lot of those people. A reoccurring trend on the left is a fundamental inability to understand what it takes to build a broad coalition, and that ain’t it. Stunning that the leftist front-runner had his ass handed to him at record speed. Let's not take away any lessons from it, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodporne Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 1 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted July 8, 2020 Share Posted July 8, 2020 52 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Let me say it even slower it is not about Crenshaw That dude can pound sand. But your defense and even encouragement of mocking his disability is literally no different than if Jason was tweeting at Clarence Thomas and called him a spear chucker. Counterpoint: it is about him. And his enabling of people and ideas far worse than mocking (by some anonymous people online, not people who actually matter) his injury sustained in the defense of empire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 When I seek out or achieve some position of public influence I'll make sure to emphasize a more civil tone but until then fuck that cyclopean dumbass. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 54 minutes ago, Anathema- said: When I seek out or achieve some position of public influence I'll make sure to emphasize a more civil tone but until then fuck that cyclopean dumbass. No you won’t. You are what you are. And civility isn’t the point, it is the whole not disparaging disabled people by making the mockery of a person you dislike about their disability. But apparently for a lot of you, the collateral damage of your actions is of less importance than...whatever it is you think you achieve by making fun of a disability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I actually wouldn't even care about making of fun of Crenshaw if someone could show me that it was productive. It, of course, is actually counterproductive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexy_shapiro Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Let’s focus less on Crenshaw (one disabled person in power), and focus more on the many disabled/less-abled people he’s putting in danger by using his position to downplay the virus. Like yes, it’s not nice. But why is this the focal point here? What priorities does this demonstrate by continuing to make this the main issue? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, sexy_shapiro said: Let’s focus less on Crenshaw (one disabled person in power), and focus more on the many disabled/less-abled people he’s putting in danger by using his position to downplay the virus. Like yes, it’s not nice. But why is this the focal point here? What priorities does this demonstrate by continuing to make this the main issue? Somebody here said something gross, and we should not participate in such behavior. We can actually change how we behave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 33 minutes ago, sblfilms said: No you won’t. YOU'RE GODDAMNED RIGHT I WON'T! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexy_shapiro Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 9 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Somebody here said something gross, and we should not participate in such behavior. We can actually change how we behave. We can change how we ourselves behave on an individual basis. I don’t think we can necessarily change how others behave on here. People have to want to change themselves. But we can change how we react to what others say. I just remind myself that we live in stressful times that brings out different sides of people that may not have come out during better times. Many feel powerless. It is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 13 hours ago, sblfilms said: I don’t understand adults who make fun of other people. I'll teach you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Pointing out the fact that he has one eye while also insulting him is not mocking his injury. Believe me I'm used to being on the other end of fatphobic microaggressions and no it doesn't feel great but calling a vile person a fatass to wound their ego doesn't even qualify. I'm not stupid, I can recognize when a comment shows someone is secretly intolerant and reinforcing harmful societal norms. People will use recognizable facts about you when talking about you. That often comes down to physical descriptions. We have to police ourselves for some things. Remarking first on skin color might reveal a disfavorable preoccupation, but the societal problem with disabilities is apathy not anger. Crenshaw had his eye taken in service to the country. It would be tres uncouth to mention it in polite company. But we're talking about twitter and in response to his harmful use of power as a congressman. He is harming people with his words and actions. He's forgone the protections of civil society. Fuck him. I really don't think anyone who lost an eye is going to feel like society is secretly harboringnegative feelings about them over this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 7 hours ago, sexy_shapiro said: We can change how we ourselves behave on an individual basis. I don’t think we can necessarily change how others behave on here. People have to want to change themselves. But we can change how we react to what others say. I just remind myself that we live in stressful times that brings out different sides of people that may not have come out during better times. Many feel powerless. It is what it is. With my Navy background, it was quite common to use homosexual slurs against my friends and coworkers. They weren't used against them in anger or whatever, it just flowed freely from everyone's mouths. That changed though when I started working with an openly gay shipmate. It never occurred to me those words were truly hateful until he let me know that type of language hurts - even when you don't use it out of anger. Looking back, I cringe at some of the language I (and others) used so freely, now that I realize those words are hurtful to others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rc0101 Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 I remember a certain few on this board making Autistic jokes when a kid with autism ( who was kidnapped and held in a bunker in Alabama? for a number of days), this was when my daughter was right in the middle of her diagnoses of autism. You may think you are making a joke about a disability and it is only affecting someone like Crenshaw or someone who will never hear that joke but it affects more than who you intend it to, trust me. Edit - I am not perfect in this area either but do try to be better, 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarSolo Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 3 hours ago, rc0101 said: I remember a certain few on this board making Autistic jokes when a kid with autism ( who was kidnapped and held in a bunker in Alabama? for a number of days), this was when my daughter was right in the middle of her diagnoses of autism. You may think you are making a joke about a disability and it is only affecting someone like Crenshaw or someone who will never hear that joke but it affects more than who you intend it to, trust me. Edit - I am not perfect in this area either but do try to be better, Thank you for your story. I think it can be easy to be defensive and dismissive when people point out behavior like this because it is so disconnected from real people. None of us get this stuff perfect, but it's incredibly helpful to hear how this sort of thing does affect people even on our board. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 Well this thread had a beautiful conclusion and it's not often that happens here, so it should be recognized! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 OH FOR SHIVA'S SAKE - ENOUGH ABOUT DAN CRENSHAW AND TAMMY DUCKWORTH IN THIS THREAD! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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