Spork3245 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 37 minutes ago, Brick said: I think people criticizing a slight delay because of COVID-19 is beyond ridiculous. Gamer entitlement is beyond ridiculous. You missed when they delayed it “indefinitely” then. The criticism is that it suddenly has a release date that is just a “slight delay” only after the entire plot was leaked/spoiled. If the release date was just pushed back ~3-weeks instead of that “indefinite” nonsense then no one would ultimately care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 An alternative story could be that they thought sales would tank if they released it during the shutdown, saw how Animal Crossing did in the NPDs and realized they needed to get it out fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 56 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: An alternative story could be that they thought sales would tank if they released it during the shutdown, saw how Animal Crossing did in the NPDs and realized they needed to get it out fast. That's definitely a possibility, especially given the themes of the game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 2 hours ago, Spork3245 said: You missed when they delayed it “indefinitely” then. The criticism is that it suddenly has a release date that is just a “slight delay” only after the entire plot was leaked/spoiled. If the release date was just pushed back ~3-weeks instead of that “indefinite” nonsense then no one would ultimately care. I did not. I just didn't throw a hissy fit because they didn't want to release it given the current the circumstances, which I can understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 6 hours ago, Brick said: I did not. I just didn't throw a hissy fit because they didn't want to release it given the current the circumstances, which I can understand. Hate to break it to you, but the only one throwing a hissy fit itt is you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodporne Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 I hope it gets 10/10s across the board with a 99 Metacritic score and has even worse gameplay than RDR2 so I can finally be justified in my perpetual modern-game-sux rage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShreddieMercury Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 I don't understand how people can judge the quality of a story solely on its twists or major plot beats, and if they're "spoiled" for them it ruins the experience. Spoiler culture is insane. If the only thing going for your story is the immensity of surprises, it's a shitty story. I read the leaks, and I'm no less likely to play this, because knowing and experiencing a story/narrative are entirely different things. 1 hour ago, Bloodporne said: I hope it gets 10/10s across the board with a 99 Metacritic score and has even worse gameplay than RDR2 so I can finally be justified in my perpetual modern-game-sux rage. I read recently that they spent time giving every character a distinct heartbeat, so it certainly has RDR-levels of completely pointless and superfluous details. Critics and fans who can't see these developers for the frustrated wannabe filmmakers that they are will surely herald it as a work of art. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bloodporne Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 This thread reminds me that I should probably give the first one another shot. I dropped it after maybe two hours and probably didn't give it a fair chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 2 hours ago, ShreddieMercuryRising said: I don't understand how people can judge the quality of a story solely on its twists or major plot beats, and if they're "spoiled" for them it ruins the experience. Spoiler culture is insane. If the only thing going for your story is the immensity of surprises, it's a shitty story. I read the leaks, and I'm no less likely to play this, because knowing and experiencing a story/narrative are entirely different things. I read recently that they spent time giving every character a distinct heartbeat, so it certainly has RDR-levels of completely pointless and superfluous details. Critics and fans who can't see these developers for the frustrated wannabe filmmakers that they are will surely herald it as a work of art. My personal "concern" can't be laid out without spoilers. Spoiler To me, it sounds like a shitshow of terrible people doing terrible things. Could it be great? Yes. But, my initial impressions on reading the details were very negative. Spoiler In the first part of the game, you play as Ellie. Early on, Ellie's friend Jesse is killed. For revenge, Ellie goes after Abby (and meets up with Joel). Before their assault, Ellie's group is attacked by Abby's group and Joel is killed, Ellie is captured. Ellie slaughter's Abby's group as she escapes. In the second part of the game, you play as Abby. Ellie continues hunting the cult, while you hunt her down. The climactic fight is you (as Abby), fighting Ellie and killing her. It feels like an unending story of revenge, piled on revenge, and doesn't have the kind of "redemption" story we saw with Joel in the first game. Of course, there is some controversy over the characters, which doesn't really bother me. Spoiler Both playable characters are LGBT -- with Ellie's lesbian relationship being a key plot element, and Abby being trans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 In order for this thread to remain open, I'm mandating that ANY hints relating to the plot, the characters, their motivations, etc. in ANY context be spoilered or the text is blacked out/redacted like I did in @AbsolutSurgen's post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShreddieMercury Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 @AbsolutSurgen Spoiler I agree, I don't think it sounds too promising based on these details, but it's also a gigantic swing so I have to commend them for trying to do something different with the story. I also don't think this is the type of story that can be summarized by a few bullet points - I'm guessing that motivations are made much more clear over the course of a 15-20 hour story, and people are making snap judgements on the game's quality based on only a handful of actions taken by characters within a much larger narrative. I'm not a big fan of the first game, but I am more intrigued about this one as a result of the leak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Reading the leak actually DOES make me more VASTLY more interested in the game. Simply put, Spoiler I fully expect that in a world that has gone to hell in a handbasket like that of TLoU that "terrible people doing terrible things" would be the norm. In fact, in that situation, people would be absolutely foolish to NOT do "terrible things" in order to survive. Furthermore, I would be utterly beside myself with resounding glee if there was no "redemption arc" in this one. To me, there is no more vapid, banal, insipid, hackneyed, cliched, trite, etc. trope in all of storytelling than that of the "redemption arc". If they dispel with that nonsense and leave us with morally compromised characters who not only are not redeemed but also actively REJECT redemption, then Naughty Dog will get a freakin' standing ovation from me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 5 hours ago, Spork3245 said: Hate to break it to you, but the only one throwing a hissy fit itt is you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 54 minutes ago, Emperor Diocletian II said: In order for this thread to remain open, I'm mandating that ANY hints relating to the plot, the characters, their motivations, etc. in ANY context be spoilered or the text is blacked out/redacted like I did in @AbsolutSurgen's post. Sorry, I thought it was so vague as to be fine. I've edited it to put it in the spoiler tag, as some people's theme will show text that is blacked out. @ShreddieMercuryRising Spoiler I have no doubt that the character motivations will make sense in context of the story. I am on record as saying that I would have preferred that they told a story with different characters. However, for me, the first game told a story of love and hope (in a messed up way) -- throughout the story, Joel becomes a father figure, and the bond between Ellie and Joel grows. I recognize that his "redemption" is the slaughter of people, who are probably not evil, but are about to do an "evil thing" in the killing of an innocent (even if it is for the greater good). It is a morally ambiguous decision, but at least it shows humanity in a somewhat positive light. Turning Ellie into the villain in the second game (at least by the end), negates the ending of the first game. My take-away is that the story tellers are portraying humanity as irredeemable. While some people may like those stories, those aren't the ones that I typically enjoy. 40 minutes ago, Emperor Diocletian II said: Reading the leak actually DOES make me more VASTLY more interested in the game. Simply put, That is fair. Different people have different tastes in narratives. Spoiler I would also be very disappointed if this game has a redemptive arc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 @AbsolutSurgen - totally cool! I'm taking a pretty tight approach to this game vis-a-vis spoilers simply due to its high level of anticipation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 6 hours ago, Emperor Diocletian II said: I'm taking a pretty tight approach to this game vis-a-vis spoilers simply due to its high level of anticipation. I'm not anticipating it at all 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Sony has supposedly identified the individual(s) responsible for the leak. They were not associated with either Sony or Naughty Dog. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALIEN-gunner Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 Having seen all of the leaked plot I'm confident that the game will be fine. The controversy is overblown and muxh of the negativity is based on lies. For instance there is absolutely no political and social agenda anywhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 23 minutes ago, ALIEN-gunner said: Having seen all of the leaked plot I'm confident that the game will be fine. The controversy is overblown and muxh of the negativity is based on lies. For instance there is absolutely no political and social agenda anywhere. It stars a girl who is also a lesbian therefore purple haired SJWs are oppressing me! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxEvil AshxX Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 17 hours ago, ALIEN-gunner said: Having seen all of the leaked plot I'm confident that the game will be fine. The controversy is overblown and muxh of the negativity is based on lies. For instance there is absolutely no political and social agenda anywhere. Except for the fact that Druckmann himself totally has an agenda. Forced Amy Hennig out of ND and now claims to be a white knight for the feminine cause. Like, if he's so pro-women, why did he stage a coup and force out not only the best female writer, but one of the best writers in the biz, period? I haven't been paying attention to the leaks so much as I've been paying attention to his response of them, and he really seems to have his head up his ass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moa Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 1 hour ago, XxEvil AshxX said: Except for the fact that Druckmann himself totally has an agenda. Forced Amy Hennig out of ND and now claims to be a white knight for the feminine cause. Like, if he's so pro-women, why did he stage a coup and force out not only the best female writer, but one of the best writers in the biz, period? I haven't been paying attention to the leaks so much as I've been paying attention to his response of them, and he really seems to have his head up his ass. It's possible for a good writer to also be an asshole, some might even say it's a prerequisite. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleG Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 1 hour ago, XxEvil AshxX said: Forced Amy Hennig out of ND and now claims to be a white knight for the feminine cause. Like, if he's so pro-women, why did he stage a coup and force out not only the best female writer, but one of the best writers in the biz, period? Unless you have a direct knowledge that his issues with her are based on her being a women he can still be pro feminism and get rid of her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleG Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 Political and social agendas are in almost every piece of media . If people dont see it , its because it agrees with their views or their media literacy is dog shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 4 minutes ago, SimpleG said: Political and social agendas are in almost every piece of media . If people dont see it , its because it agrees with their views or their media literacy is dog shit. Exactly. Practically every facet of our very existence -- especially art -- is inherently shaped within a political/social context. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 37 minutes ago, Emperor Diocletian II said: Practically every facet of our very existence -- especially art -- is inherently shaped within a political/social context. Unless you are Far Cry, it's just a story with no political allusions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastlevaniaNut18 Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 Mario is super political. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 20 hours ago, Xbob42 said: It stars a girl who is also a lesbian therefore purple haired SJWs are oppressing me! No. Spoiler With both playable characters being LGBT, Ellie being Lesbian and Abby being Trans some people feel that this game is pushing an LGBT agenda. Without playing the game, I don't know if this is true. 1 hour ago, SimpleG said: Unless you have a direct knowledge that his issues with her are based on her being a women he can still be pro feminism and get rid of her. Let's wait to see the game. 59 minutes ago, SimpleG said: Political and social agendas are in almost every piece of media . If people dont see it , its because it agrees with their views or their media literacy is dog shit. While many story based games like TLoU2 will have some sort of commentary, a lot of video games are excluded from having any meaningful comment. I fail to see the political and social agenda in Baba is You, Outrun, Pong and Tetris (and thousands of other games.) However, without actually PLAYING THE GAME, none of us can intelligently comment on what commentary TLoU2 may or may not have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moa Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 Not all games are narrative arts but all narrative arts are inherently political. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleG Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 21 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: Let's wait to see the game. What does this have to do with Druckmamm "pushing out" female writer and be pro feminism ? 24 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: While many story based games like TLoU2 will have some sort of commentary, a lot of video games are excluded from having any meaningful comment. I fail to see the political and social agenda in Baba is You, Outrun, Pong and Tetris (and thousands of other games.) Yup some games dont have it,hell a lot of games dont . No one said all games do. 27 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: However, without actually PLAYING THE GAME, none of us can intelligently comment on what commentary TLoU2 may or may not have. Not sure why you mentioned this considering I didnt comment on what the game says, I only commented on the fact that does say something. Unless you are just making a general comment about it in which case I agree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ALIEN-gunner Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said: No. Hide contents With both playable characters being LGBT, Ellie being Lesbian and Abby being Trans some people feel that this game is pushing an LGBT agenda. Without playing the game, I don't know if this is true. Your information about Abby is incorrect. Spoiler Abby is not LGBT. She's not trans and she's straight. She has a boyfriend and is very feminine. She grew up in a morality cult training day after day to be strong enough to seek revenge on Joel for killing her father. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 Quote For those of you interested in TLOU2 leaks and how it happened, here's your rundown I have no idea how many tweets this will be so buckle up Every ND game has a "final" patch that is pushed to the game that contains an Amazon AWS key, that when paired with a secret bucket ID it will give full access to the server's contents. Theres a different key and bucket ID per game, this is important This vulnerability was discovered recently and some hackers took full advantage of it, saving TLOU1, UC3, and other dev stuff. At the time, it was disclosed to me around early February, and was very early on so ~January 2020 it was discovered Come March, keys and data was saved, somewhere around 1-3TB, though I can only say 1TB for sure. They were trying to dump TLOU1 in an effort to get that games key as UC3 had TLOU1 material, so surely TLOU1 had TLOU2? No idea in the end but come April things got spicy In April all the leaks of story were validated by the footage posted. I cannot speak for the text posts with story, but I can say that the dates from discovery and disclosure match with timestamps in the footage as well. You can check yourself, bottom left of all footage Come may 30th, late at night, the source that disclosed this to me stated that the key had changed so ND for sure knew how to resolve this issue, and no keys work with the bucket IDs now. This is good but theres more The individual that spoke to me is a direct source of this compromise, but is NOT (as far as I am aware, or can tell) not the one that leaked this material. I say this because even they were weirdly skeptical about the "ND employee leaked things because they were mad" I've been watching this for about 3 months now, and after speaking to a first hand source of this, my only conclusion is they (and their immediate circle) did not leak it, but shared information relating to what I described, and another party proceeded to leak such material This is not the first time this has happened in circles like this either to boot. I trust their word as a first hand source of this happening, and I trust that theyre not dumb enough to leak it, but whether they leaked everything to get such is another story. In regards to the devkit nonsense: yes you would need a devkit to do this and given that its relatively easy to get one (yes really, it is) this is not very much of a problem. I can say the circle for the vulnerability owns such hardware as well, I've seen the photos What's the point I'm making? The point: there's plenty of room to argue an ND employee is involved, but from the evidence (which I have submitted to ND back in February) stands to point to an ND-made security vulnerability that was exploited. Not an angry employee While I will not give names, I will say this: I've been around, I know leaks, I listen, I watch, I keep tabs on things. I've known about this for months and kept quiet publicly but since it's blocked out now and news coverage confirmed what I've known I decided to say so publicly I have no affiliation with the group, I have no materials from the leak, and I'm not going to. I had my ass bitten once and I dont need a second round of it, but putting the truth out there is important, because even then you'll still have people saying it was an ND employee Don't believe what sounds like the juiciest story, even if it's what you wanna hear. Sometimes it's really that boring. Hackerman exploiting a vulnerability created by the company's own games to gain internal access. Hopefully this has been enlightening for you 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 That story is confusing. He makes it sound like it started in January but mentions May 30th... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 39 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said: That story is confusing. He makes it sound like it started in January but mentions May 30th... He made a mistake with that date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleG Posted May 3, 2020 Share Posted May 3, 2020 I feel like i am having a stroke when I read that, people need to a use a proper name such as "naughty dog" or "ND" and "hacker" dont just say "they" when talking about multiple people in a complicated scenario. This reads like they are just guessing Come March, keys and data was saved, somewhere around 1-3TB, though I can only say 1TB for sure. They were trying to dump TLOU1 in an effort to get that games key as UC3 had TLOU1 material, so surely TLOU1 had TLOU2? No idea in the end but come April things got spicy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heydude93 Posted May 12, 2020 Share Posted May 12, 2020 Just read one of the spoilers and boy was that a mistake. But also heard some leaked info might not be in the final game? update: nevermind, has to be legit since lots of footage from the actual game was leaked as well On 5/2/2020 at 8:52 PM, SimpleG said: Political and social agendas are in almost every piece of media . If people dont see it , its because it agrees with their views or their media literacy is dog shit. Everything is political to some extent because that's how psychology works, but lots of art can be less political than if made to express an agenda/statement. The fact that so much anime and videogames is capable of being enjoyed by almost anyone, regardless of politics, also seems to be proof of this. Of course there's also proof that lots of professional artists can be jerks, are susceptible to cultural/social/political ignorance, that progressive messaging in games was intentionally deprioritized (usually to increase sales and/or viewership over expressing political agendas, IE entertainment) or, if agendas were intended, they were not as effective as they could've been. It took a minute but nowadays this seems to be much less of an issue throughout the industry and audience than it used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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