AbsolutSurgen Posted October 8, 2021 Author Share Posted October 8, 2021 1 minute ago, Ghost_MH said: Like I said, that combined with everything else. Let's make this simple. If everyone was vaccinated, wore masks more often, and practiced some social distancing, would COVID numbers be up, down, or about the same? If the answer is down, then it's absolutely a moral failing that we aren't there right now. You're basically arguing that we couldn't have done anything better in regards to our reaction to the pandemic. That's categorically cause because other countries around the world have managed to handle things better than the US. If you want to argue it's not a moral failing of the people, but of leaders and influencers misleading they're followers then sure. I can buy into that hypothesis. That is not at all what I said. That is not what the article said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 20 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said: Like I said, that combined with everything else. Let's make this simple. If everyone was vaccinated, wore masks more often, and practiced some social distancing, would COVID numbers be up, down, or about the same? If the answer is down, then it's absolutely a moral failing that we aren't there right now. You're basically arguing that we couldn't have done anything better in regards to our reaction to the pandemic. That's categorically false because other countries around the world have managed to handle things better than the US. If you want to argue it's not a moral failing of the people, but of leaders and influencers misleading their followers then sure. I can buy into that hypothesis. Vaccinations, yes. The other parts, probably not in practice. As @AbsolutSurgennoted, cloth masks do very little and at least my experience has been that a majority of people are using cloth masks. If everybody weee wearing N95s, absolutely would be better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted October 8, 2021 Author Share Posted October 8, 2021 New Brunswick has partially vaccinated more than 80% of the total population, and fully vaccinated 72%. They have largely been spared from the pandemic to date, but the cases/day in this wave are already ~3x higher than at any other point previously (primarily in unvaccinated people). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted October 8, 2021 Author Share Posted October 8, 2021 1 hour ago, skillzdadirecta said: Aren't vaccinations up across the board? Hasn't fear of Delta and more and more companies mandating masks and vaccines helped slow the infection rate? Vaccination might up a little. But, not in any meaningful way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said: That is not at all what I said. That is not what the article said. My understanding of the article is that we shouldn't call COVID spikes a moral failing because we don't really understand what causes these spikes and calling it a moral failing doesn't help. What am I missing here? Like I said, if everyone actually cared about others in this country, wore masks, got vaccinated, and practiced some social distancing, would COVID numbers be down? Would those small, personal sacrificing save lives in this country? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted October 8, 2021 Author Share Posted October 8, 2021 18 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said: My understanding of the article is that we shouldn't call COVID spikes a moral failing because we don't really understand what causes these spikes and calling it a moral failing doesn't help. What am I missing here? Like I said, if everyone actually cared about others in this country, wore masks, got vaccinated, and practiced some social distancing, would COVID numbers be down? Would those small, personal sacrificing save lives in this country? The article was focusing on why it is so hard to forecast/predict the pandemic -- and why attributing changes to moral failures is harming our ability to predict it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: The article was focusing on why it is so hard to forecast/predict the pandemic -- and why attributing changes to moral failures is harming our ability to predict it. This is quite clearly the point, but it isn’t the point our fellow board members want to engage with. Hence my comment about them mounting their hobby horse issues instead! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 Oh, and another thing about that article—thin crust pizza is better than deep dish! 1 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted October 8, 2021 Author Share Posted October 8, 2021 6 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: Oh, and another thing about that article—thin crust pizza is better than deep dish! Pan pizza is da bomb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 14 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: The article was focusing on why it is so hard to forecast/predict the pandemic -- and why attributing changes to moral failures is harming our ability to predict it. That's exactly what I just said. You want know why it's hard to forecast the pandemic? Because people are irrational and unpredictable. This isn't the weather we're talking about. There's no cloud of COVID-19 floating across the country and just choosing to chill in Mississippi for a spell while flying over California because the air is stale and on fire. People are emotional and irrational and these very same people are the ones spreading the disease. The media was all doom and gloom the last couple of weeks covering hospitals being overrun with COVID patients and then there's a drop in infection rates. If Biden gets on TV tomorrow and starts cheering the drop and how things are looking good, you'll wind up with red swaths of the nation rising infection rates as people start taking COVID less serious out of pure spite. Shocker. It's really hard to predict the behavior of people during a once in a century pandemic. Either way, yeah, it's a moral failing that we aren't in a better place. I don't really care if that makes people feel bad. I just had to sit through a meeting about folks arguing we shouldn't have to be under a vaccine mandate because we aren't the right kind of federal contractor and all I could think is "who the fuck cares, just get vaccinated and it won't matter". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 14 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: Oh, and another thing about that article—thin crust pizza is better than deep dish! This is a moral failing 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 28 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: Oh, and another thing about that article—thin crust pizza is better than deep dish! Thin crust eaters don't turn the knob when they close the door. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 19 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said: That's exactly what I just said. You want know why it's hard to forecast the pandemic? Because people are irrational and unpredictable. This is not correct. Again, if your position is masking and vaccinations are the things driving things, why are cases decreasing in places with low rates of both right now? Why does Covid have a roughly 2 month cycle for waves everywhere, regardless of the relative size of those waves? This is what you refuse to engage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 34 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: Oh, and another thing about that article—thin crust pizza is better than deep dish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 47 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: Oh, and another thing about that article—thin crust pizza is better than deep dish! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 13 minutes ago, sblfilms said: This is not correct. Again, if your position is masking and vaccinations are the things driving things, why are cases decreasing in places with low rates of both right now? Why does Covid have a roughly 2 month cycle for waves everywhere, regardless of the relative size of those waves? This is what you refuse to engage. Because of what I just said. People are emotional. They see COVID is bad in the news and start masking up or taking fewer risks, even if they aren't intentional doing so. Then they stop seeing that in the news and start taking more risks and not wearing masks leading to another spike. Are you arguing that the virus is run by some videogame AI and is designed to come in waves so we, the players, don't exhaust ourselves? What other mechanism other than human behavior and humans en masse lacking any sense of long term planning do you think is driving these waves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 No, your antibodies are not better than vaccination: An explainer ARSTECHNICA.COM Infection does offer some immune protection—but it's unreliable compared with vaccines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleG Posted October 8, 2021 Share Posted October 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jason said: No, your antibodies are not better than vaccination: An explainer ARSTECHNICA.COM Infection does offer some immune protection—but it's unreliable compared with vaccines. But i did my research..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm still thinking about the craziness of being an organ transplant while also refusing to get the COVID vaccine. Unvaccinated patients are getting kicked off organ transplant waitlists ARSTECHNICA.COM Transplant recipients must take immune-suppressing drugs, raising risk for COVID. Imagine being all "I trust my immune system" while also needing a new organ and having to take drugs to weaken your own immune system. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 So first week that they started testing unvaccinated drivers and sure enough one of the biggest conspiracy Trumper anti-vaxxer wearing one of those "not really a mask masks" tested positive so should be fun when they go through that contact tracing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 tl;dr: Delaying second doses (to get more people their first dose faster) not only saved lives and reduced spread, it also boosted immunity. Mixing doses also proved successful, with the same immunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 Oh shit it's the reeemix!!! Baw baw bawwwww!! Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaxick Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 On 10/8/2021 at 3:44 PM, Jason said: No, your antibodies are not better than vaccination: An explainer ARSTECHNICA.COM Infection does offer some immune protection—but it's unreliable compared with vaccines. How I wish I could explain this to somebody I'm close with whose jumped off the deep end all of a sudden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 On 10/8/2021 at 1:56 PM, Ghost_MH said: Because of what I just said. People are emotional. They see COVID is bad in the news and start masking up or taking fewer risks, even if they aren't intentional doing so. Then they stop seeing that in the news and start taking more risks and not wearing masks leading to another spike. Are you arguing that the virus is run by some videogame AI and is designed to come in waves so we, the players, don't exhaust ourselves? What other mechanism other than human behavior and humans en masse lacking any sense of long term planning do you think is driving these waves? Meant to respond to this yesterday, but the answer is certainly more complex than simple human behavioral responses to growing case numbers. One of the leading ideas is that Covid runs through what are actually relatively discreet communities in a particular region. The easiest way to conceptualize this is that within a given high school, you have many different social groups and while those groups can have crossovers you can eventually run up against some hard breaks between them. Covid may burn through the football team, but never touch the track team. The next wave may been seeded into the track team, but never touch the marching band. The next wave seeds into the marching band, and so on in wave after wave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted October 9, 2021 Share Posted October 9, 2021 27 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Meant to respond to this yesterday, but the answer is certainly more complex than simple human behavioral responses to growing case numbers. One of the leading ideas is that Covid runs through what are actually relatively discreet communities in a particular region. The easiest way to conceptualize this is that within a given high school, you have many different social groups and those groups while those groups can have crossovers you can eventually run up against some hard breaks between them. Covid may burn through the football team, but never touch the track team. The next wave may been seeded into the track team, but never touch the marching band. The next wave seeds into the marching band, and so on in wave after wave. Yeah, that seems pretty reasonable. You just can't really plan for that. There's no way to know if the kid you're sitting next to in the bus is on the football team or the track team. Humans are what's spreading this disease. Maybe this week a church event winds up being a super spreader or maybe it's the bar mitzvah that leads to the next wave. Either way, something about human behavior and changes to their behavior are what slows things down and ramps things right back up. The point still remains. If everyone just masked up and got their damn vaccinations we wouldn't have to deal with explosions filling hospitals. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 NYPD: Apple Store Security Guard Stabbed, Slashed By Customer Who Refused To Wear Mask NEWYORK.CBSLOCAL.COM Police say a customer was asked to wear a mask, but he refused and started fighting with a security guard. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 lol wut 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokra Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 2 hours ago, CitizenVectron said: lol wut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 6 hours ago, Jason said: NYPD: Apple Store Security Guard Stabbed, Slashed By Customer Who Refused To Wear Mask NEWYORK.CBSLOCAL.COM Police say a customer was asked to wear a mask, but he refused and started fighting with a security guard. Wow I was around here at the time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 On 10/8/2021 at 10:11 PM, Ghost_MH said: I shouldn't be surprised, but I'm still thinking about the craziness of being an organ transplant while also refusing to get the COVID vaccine. Unvaccinated patients are getting kicked off organ transplant waitlists ARSTECHNICA.COM Transplant recipients must take immune-suppressing drugs, raising risk for COVID. Imagine being all "I trust my immune system" while also needing a new organ and having to take drugs to weaken your own immune system. I'm not putting that in me...where has it been? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 2 hours ago, Ominous said: I'm not putting that in me...where has it been? People need organs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricofoley Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 This dude is definitely dying Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firewithin Posted October 10, 2021 Share Posted October 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, Ricofoley said: This dude is definitely dying lets get our herman cain awards ready Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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