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Xbox Series X | S OT - Power Your Dreams, update: FTC case unredacted documents leaked, including XSX mid-generation refresh, new gyro/haptic-enabled controller, and next-generation plans for 2028

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skillzdadirecta

skillzdadirecta

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, Duderino said:

Halo Infinite could have been what BoTW was to the Switch; a cross-gen game that still served as a system seller for the new console.


Not that the Series X needs a big killer app at launch to be a success (just look at the One X), but missing Halo this holiday does take some of the wind out of its sails.

 

With Halo out, I’d guess most people still interested in the Series X this holiday are looking to play the big 3rd party cross-gen tittles on it.  If that is the case there will be a lot riding on those Digital Foundry XSX vs PS5 comparisons.  Here’s hoping one of the the smaller Xbox exclusive tittles is a runaway success so graphics don’t completely dominate the discussions.

Rumor is that the XSX will consistently out perform the PS5 in third party titles... that is the rumored reason why Sony is looking to purchase limited exclusivity for big third party titles.

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crispy4000

crispy4000

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6 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Rumor is that the XSX will consistently out perform the PS5 in third party titles... that is the rumored reason why Sony is looking to purchase limited exclusivity for big third party titles.

 

Sure that's a rumor and not deductive speculation?  A power gap is far from the only reason to do it.  Both companies are breaking open their wallets for games like Yakuza 7 and Deathloop to pad their 2020 line-ups.


There's still good reason to believe that the Series X will have a sizable advantage in GPU capability.  Anything that's built to be cross-gen should theoretically scale much better on it.  Probably games with RT effects too.  We're not even close to a point where SSD speeds will matter in multiplatform titles.

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legend

legend

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

I wonder if the target date was always this year though.  They don't deserve to be shitted on for the delay, but they had a significant chunk of time to pull this together.  About as long as CD Projekt Red had to pivot from Witcher 3 to Cyperpunk.

 

Now the pressure is on for 343i to show something substantially improved the next time.  The delay just extends their crunch.  We'll see a significantly better game all said and done, but the work won't get easier.

 

It was probably this year for some time. You say they had this full five years as if they had this one self-directed vision that they'd been working toward and were struggling to make it in five years. Often times things are forced to change on you from above. There's a reason Bungie spent considerable money getting out from under MS.

 

It's entirely possible that 343 is just plain bad and all fault rests on them. But I don't think we can assume that and certainly not from this.

 

8 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

I dunno if you had a personal chef and the first dish gave you diarrhea and the second dish sent you to the hospital wouldn't you tell your chef that "after 5 years if you haven't gotten your recipe right yet, you're out"?

 

I wouldn't have made up my mind about the chef because he had to close the restaurant for a bit because of Covid. That just shouldn't be a factor in the analysis.

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crispy4000

crispy4000

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6 minutes ago, legend said:

It was probably this year for some time. You say they had this full five years as if they had this one self-directed vision that they'd been working toward and were struggling to make it in five years. Often times things are forced to change on you from above. There's a reason Bungie spent considerable money getting out from under MS.

 

It's entirely possible that 343 is just plain bad and all fault rests on them. But I don't think we can assume that and certainly not from this.

 

We know they were building the Slipspace Engine in that time period, which not even a year ago was claimed to be "the most cutting edge engine on the planet."  Perhaps the bigger fault is there.

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legend

legend

Posted
Posted
Just now, Keyser_Soze said:

 

He's your personal chef though.

 

And if I had decided not to fire my personal chef for some strange reason, him having to take a leave of work because of Covid still would not be a deciding factor.

 

2 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

We know they were building the Slipspace Engine in that time period, which not even a year ago was claimed to be "the most cutting edge engine on the planet."  Perhaps the bigger fault is there.

 

Possibly. I can absolutely imagine a world where MS mandated they work on engine tech and that delayed everything, or required re-shifting how they were building Halo, etc. There's just so many weird variables that go on in these spaces it's hard to know who is responsible for poor planning.

 

I say this having been forced to plan lower-level details even though you think the higher-level planning you are working under is bad and indeed ends up being bad :p It's a tough spot.

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skillzdadirecta

skillzdadirecta

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5 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Sure that's a rumor and not deductive speculation?  A power gap is far from the only reason to do it.  Both companies are breaking open their wallets for games like Yakuza 7 and Deathloop to pad their 2020 line-ups.


There's still good reason to believe that the Series X will have a sizable advantage in GPU capability.  Anything that's built to be cross-gen should theoretically scale much better on it.  Probably games with RT effects too.  We're not even close to a point where SSD speeds will matter in multiplatform titles.

it's a rumor that is going around and has been spread on several websites... I don't have a dog in the bullshit fanboy/system wars because I'm getting both systems at launch. I'm just saying what's being discussed out there.

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crispy4000

crispy4000

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1 hour ago, JPDunks4 said:

https://wccftech.com/ps5-to-cost-more-than-xsx-while-struggling-more-with-multiplatform-games-in-performance-says-insider/

 

Not seeing anything in there about timed exclusivity moneyhatting.  Just some technical reasons why some games might not release on both simultaneously.

 

It's interesting stuff if true.  I wonder if REVIII is using raytracing on PS5, and that's leading to the troubles at 1080p60.

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JPDunks4

JPDunks4

Posted
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37 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Not seeing anything in there about timed exclusivity moneyhatting.  Just some technical reasons why some games might not release on both simultaneously.

 

It's interesting stuff if true.  I wonder if REVIII is using raytracing on PS5, and that's leading to the troubles at 1080p60.

I believe him talking about the Power differences he was hearing was in response to the fact Sony was buying up 3rd Party deals, and why they might be going so big on 3rd Party Deals.

 

I just saw the firestorm on Twitter around it.  Some other devs came on to say they think the differences are going to be marginal at best, and others came to agree with the Insider, saying they are hearing the gap in performance is more significant that some may think.  

 

Only way we'll know shit is when they both launch.

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skillzdadirecta

skillzdadirecta

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Not seeing anything in there about timed exclusivity moneyhatting.  Just some technical reasons why some games might not release on both simultaneously.

 

It's interesting stuff if true.  I wonder if REVIII is using raytracing on PS5, and that's leading to the troubles at 1080p60.

You do understand what the word "rumor" means, right?

 

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skillzdadirecta

skillzdadirecta

Posted
Posted
2 minutes ago, crispy4000 said:

 

A rumor implies (supposed) insider knowledge.  Someone reading in between the lines of a rumor to come to a further conclusion is speculation.

You sure about that champ?

 

RUMOR

[ roo-mer ]

a story or statement in general circulation without confirmation or certainty as to facts:a rumor of war.

gossip; hearsay:Don't listen to rumor.

Archaic. a continuous, confused noise; clamor; din.

verb (used with object)

to circulate, report, or assert by a rumor:It is rumored that the king is dead.

 

I'm not trying to get into a semantic war with you because I really don't give a shit. That's the rumor or speculation or whatever the hell else you want to call it that's circulating out there. it could be true or it could be complete bullshit... I don't know and never claimed to either way. 

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crispy4000

crispy4000

Posted
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13 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

I'm not trying to get into a semantic war with you because I really don't give a shit. That's the rumor or speculation or whatever the hell else you want to call it that's circulating out there. it could be true or it could be complete bullshit... I don't know and never claimed to either way. 

 

The only thing I asked is if those at the source of these rumors/leaks/whatever (I don't give a shit either) are saying that Sony was buying timed exclusives because their machine is less powerful.  As in, A is the reason for B.  It doesn't appear that the person/people leaking this are armed with that information.  Or at the very least, they're not claiming to.

 

If someone is, that'd be good to know.

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JPDunks4

JPDunks4

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When asked again.  I don't think too many care about 4k personally, so that's not a big deal as I think most games will be using other techniques to look better.   I don't think Xbox should be focused on 4k either.  But if it's true that it's struggling with not much overhead and Xbox is running the mulitplats much more smoothly, I'd assume that means it should be able to handle better extra effects and graphical features as well.

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crispy4000

crispy4000

Posted
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1 hour ago, JPDunks4 said:

When asked again.  I don't think too many care about 4k personally, so that's not a big deal as I think most games will be using other techniques to look better.   I don't think Xbox should be focused on 4k either.  But if it's true that it's struggling with not much overhead and Xbox is running the mulitplats much more smoothly, I'd assume that means it should be able to handle better extra effects and graphical features as well.

 

Wouldn't be surprised.  The bigger question I've had is how big of a hit "performance modes" will take once we move past a cross-gen period.  4K targets won't be realistic... but what will most games settle on?  What detail will be left out (or added?) compared to PC? 

It's why raytracing and reconstruction are so relevant.  I'm excited to know that Control is getting a port up, shitty business practices aside.  That game is going to say a lot about what the Series X and PS5 are good or bad at.

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JPDunks4

JPDunks4

Posted
Posted
13 hours ago, crispy4000 said:

 

Wouldn't be surprised.  The bigger question I've had is how big of a hit "performance modes" will take once we move past a cross-gen period.  4K targets won't be realistic... but what will most games settle on?  What detail will be left out (or added?) compared to PC? 

It's why raytracing and reconstruction are so relevant.  I'm excited to know that Control is getting a port up, shitty business practices aside.  That game is going to say a lot about what the Series X and PS5 are good or bad at.

A little more to the rumor.

 

Screenshot_20200813-093733_GroupMe.jpg?w

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Duderino

Duderino

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Posted

The Series X clearly has the higher cost GPU, but the PS5 likely has the more expensive controller, SSD, and specialized hardware (custom i/o unit, tempest engine).  I could see the later resulting in a higher price tag.
 

I also don’t doubt that games on the Series X will have an easier time targeting 4K.  The bigger question is how important is native 4K really going to be to what people classify as next gen.
 

I’m personally way more interested in what else that 2-ish extra TF can afford developers.  Same goes for the PS5’s SSD advantage.  It would be a bit anti-climactic to see 3rd party games just boost resolutions on the X but load faster on the PS5.

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Dodger

Dodger

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I'm getting to the point where I don't know if I'm in for both at launch anymore. I think I need to see $399 launch points instead of $499 since neither is looking to have a strong launch lineup.

 

Although outside of Halo delay, it really does sound like the XSX is going to be a great console. If you read Sony fanboys at ERA you would swear it barely has a power advantage but it sounds like it has a significant one. 

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JPDunks4

JPDunks4

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And another article on the rumors.  It's more and more people coming out about it.  Jeff Grubbs never had said anything until yesterday.  

 

https://wccftech.com/ps5-development-troublesome-fake-4k-common/amp/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

 

Quote

On the most recent episode of the Basement Radio Arcade Podcast, noted insider Jeff Grubb hinted that devs are having trouble with the PS5’s variable frequency approach, and warned that gamers may be “disappointed” by some major third-party titles.

 

The technology that Sony's using for the PS5 is AMD SmartShift and...a lot of people are just assuming the PS5 is going to be right there with the Xbox Series X, and it may be, I don't know for sure, I'm not a developer, but this SmartShift tech is worrisome I think. What it does is it moves power between the CPU and the GPU and developers really haven't had to worry about that, especially on consoles, in the past.

 

This could, at launch at least, prove troublesome, to the point where you could start getting stories from Digital Foundry or whatever saying "Y'know, the PS5 version is actually kind of wack." That will get cleared up over time, developers will figure it out, Sony will figure it out and explain to developers "here's what to do," but my understanding is they're not doing that yet and that's the issue. So, you go into launch, and people [could be] disappointed, with, like, Madden, NBA 2K, Call of Duty. That could leave a bad taste in people's mouths.

Also realize this is Playstaion news technically, but it's not mean to bash the PS5 or flame any console war shit.  Just these rumors were floating around about 3rd party games potentially being significantly better on Xbox at launch, and that could mean something to some people, especially if its also cheaper.

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number305

number305

Posted
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45 minutes ago, JPDunks4 said:

And another article on the rumors.  It's more and more people coming out about it.  Jeff Grubbs never had said anything until yesterday.  

 

https://wccftech.com/ps5-development-troublesome-fake-4k-common/amp/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter&__twitter_impression=true

 

Also realize this is Playstaion news technically, but it's not mean to bash the PS5 or flame any console war shit.  Just these rumors were floating around about 3rd party games potentially being significantly better on Xbox at launch, and that could mean something to some people, especially if its also cheaper.

Sure the games will perform better on Xbox, but Spiderman is only on PS5.  Sony busy working on getting exclusive rights to Lebron for 2k, Mahomes for Madden, and Sniper Rifle for COD.

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JPDunks4

JPDunks4

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7 hours ago, skillzdadirecta said:

No way either console is 600 bucks. That's laughable. 500 max but I doubt if either is that much.

$600 would be pushing it for sure.  I think most have come to terms to accept both maybe $500.  If rumors of MS wanting to undercut Sony, maybe $400. 

 

I'd doubt both are aiming for $400, as I think we'd have price by now if it they were going to be $400.

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Rbk_3

Rbk_3

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, Dodger said:

I'm getting to the point where I don't know if I'm in for both at launch anymore. I think I need to see $399 launch points instead of $499 since neither is looking to have a strong launch lineup.

 

Although outside of Halo delay, it really does sound like the XSX is going to be a great console. If you read Sony fanboys at ERA you would swear it barely has a power advantage but it sounds like it has a significant one. 

 

I think they're more likely to be $599 than they are $399. 

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