Greatoneshere Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 18 minutes ago, Amazatron said: You're going to have to elaborate on that. I fail to see how Republicans would ever even touch anything resembling socialism policies and would scream bloody murder from the rooftops. I think Warren and Sanders wouldn't (or shouldn't) even care about Republicans and what they want/think in exactly the same way Republicans currently don't care about Democrats. I think that is a more effective strategy than playing ball with them at all, which is what Obama did. Is that extreme? Yes, but it's a strong response to a party that only plays politics that way. It won't matter anyway as I would be surprised if we don't get a majority Democratic Senate and keep it in the House in 2020. And even with more centrist Dems I do think Warren and Sanders could get things passed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 32 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: And even with more centrist Dems I do think Warren and Sanders could get things passed. I think it's worth noting that with those two you wouldn't be starting from a pre-negotiated position before the horse training really starts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: I think it's worth noting that with those two you wouldn't be starting from a pre-negotiated position before the horse training really starts How do you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: How do you mean? Say universal health insurance. Those two may start negotiating from the M4A position to be watered down by Congress, where someone like Amy Klobuchar would go in with the position of "fix Obamacare" (whatever the hell that means) to negotiate with Congress. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Say universal health insurance. Those two may start negotiating from the M4A position to be watered down by Congress, where someone like Amy Klobuchar would go in with the position of "fix Obamacare" (whatever the hell that means) to negotiate with Congress. Ah, yes, agreed. Certainly my preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 24 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Say universal health insurance. Those two may start negotiating from the M4A position to be watered down by Congress, where someone like Amy Klobuchar would go in with the position of "fix Obamacare" (whatever the hell that means) to negotiate with Congress. "We kill the filibuster and pass the Single Payer M4A bill that's already cleared the House, or you guys can fix the ACA." That's what Obama failed to do. A lefty Democratic Party gives the Republicans room to move back to the center, they won't do that now because they don't want to be seen as losing face. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 How about we kill the fillibuster anyway, it's anti (small d) democratic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 The talk about "elitism" is pretty funny given that Sanders and the left are focusing on things like climate change and free college, which I highly doubt are high up the priority list for the working class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, Chris- said: The talk about "elitism" is pretty funny given that Sanders and the left are focusing on things like climate change and free college, which I highly doubt are high up the priority list for the working class. That's a bit disingenuous given there are other focuses they also have like Medicare for All, increasing the minimum wage, tax relief for the poor and working classes, criminal justice reform, etc. These are high up on the priority list for the working class. The talk of elitism comes from the attitude you see: smug, better than, etc. It's about not understanding or connecting emotionally, rather than just intellectually, with the poor and working classes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Just now, Greatoneshere said: That's a bit disingenuous given there are other focuses they also have like Medicare for All, increasing the minimum wage, tax relief for the poor and working classes, criminal justice reform, etc. These are high up on the priority list for the working class. It's not disingenuous at all, because I'm not suggesting it is a hostile platform; it is hospitable to the working class. But the fact of the matter is that a plurality (if not majority) of the left is comprised of well-educated white people, and their priorities and actions reflect that. I don't know how you can call that anything other than elitism, no matter how benevolent it may be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, Chris- said: It's not disingenuous at all, because I'm not suggesting it is a hostile platform; it is hospitable to the working class. But the fact of the matter is that a plurality (if not majority) of the left is comprised of well-educated white people, and their priorities and actions reflect that. I don't know how you can call that anything other than elitism, no matter how benevolent it may be. Because if you are authentically well meaning you don't carry an elitist attitude. How much of that makes up "the left's" base? I'm not sure, but that's the sense I get. If their priorities and actions also reflect the policies I outlined, then how can you say it is exclusively the two you said it was? And if it's not exclusive, then aren't we just admitting the left has a diverse but equally popular number of policy proposals, which is what the left is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 Just now, Greatoneshere said: Because if you are authentically well meaning you don't carry an elitist attitude. How much of that makes up "the left's" base? I'm not sure, but that's the sense I get. If their priorities and actions also reflect the policies I outlined, then how can you say it is exclusively the two you said it was? I never said it was those two exclusively, I was merely highlighting two examples where the elitism of the left shines through. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: How about we kill the fillibuster anyway, it's anti (small d) democratic Why waste an opportunity to make the Republicans look weak, again, on healthcare. Let them dig the filibuster's grave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 10 minutes ago, Chris- said: I never said it was those two exclusively, I was merely highlighting two examples where the elitism of the left shines through. I think that's convenient overlap than something insidious or intentional. Free college for all (at public universities) helps the poor and working classes too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 21 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: I think that's convenient overlap than something insidious or intentional. Free college for all (at public universities) helps the poor and working classes too. Again, I'm not suggesting it is insidious or hostile; obviously free college benefits the poor and working classes. However it (like climate change) is a priority driven by the educated class, and I don't see how that can be considered anything other than elitism. When your political movement is being led by an elite class (which, given national statistics, the college-or-more educated crowd certainly is), it is inherently elitist, no matter how much it looks out for those below it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 So far Harris seems like the most likely to throw members of our current administration in jail and frankly if it comes down to that I will absolutely be voting for her to be the nominee. The only vision I'm interested in for the immediate future is one with all these assholes in prison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 15 minutes ago, Anathema- said: So far Harris seems like the most likely to throw members of our current administration in jail and frankly if it comes down to that I will absolutely be voting for her to be the nominee. The only vision I'm interested in for the immediate future is one with all these assholes in prison. Hey, @RedSoxFan9 is right! Once a cop, always a cop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 41 minutes ago, Anathema- said: So far Harris seems like the most likely to throw members of our current administration in jail and frankly if it comes down to that I will absolutely be voting for her to be the nominee. The only vision I'm interested in for the immediate future is one with all these assholes in prison. I'd love that but how do we get around the coming pardons? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 2 hours ago, Chris- said: Again, I'm not suggesting it is insidious or hostile; obviously free college benefits the poor and working classes. However it (like climate change) is a priority driven by the educated class, and I don't see how that can be considered anything other than elitism. When your political movement is being led by an elite class (which, given national statistics, the college-or-more educated crowd certainly is), it is inherently elitist, no matter how much it looks out for those below it. I think it's pretty easy to make the case that climate change disproportionately affects the poor and working classes (who largely identify as Democrats). If political priorities are set by politicians and if you define politicians as being elites, then any political priority is by definition elitist. I don't think that's a particularly useful way to think about anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 2 hours ago, Jwheel86 said: I'd love that but how do we get around the coming pardons? If you took the entire administration and added them together they'd still be dumber than Harris alone. I doubt they'll pardon their way out of every crime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 3 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Hey, @RedSoxFan9 is right! Once a cop, always a cop. Cops and prosecutors only go after the weak. https://theintercept.com/2017/01/05/kamala-harris-fails-to-explain-why-she-didnt-prosecute-steven-mnuchins-bank/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Mittens 2.0 confirmed https://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a27259569/gwyneth-paltrow-pete-buttigieg-fundraising-event/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Just now, Jason said: Mittens 2.0 confirmed https://www.elle.com/culture/career-politics/a27259569/gwyneth-paltrow-pete-buttigieg-fundraising-event/ A chicken in every pot! A jade egg in every vagina! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Just now, thewhyteboar said: A chicken in every pot! A jade egg in every vagina! And free vaginal steam cleanings for all! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 I suspect she's just selling permission to think about doing stuff to her pussy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 17 hours ago, Chris- said: Again, I'm not suggesting it is insidious or hostile; obviously free college benefits the poor and working classes. However it (like climate change) is a priority driven by the educated class, and I don't see how that can be considered anything other than elitism. When your political movement is being led by an elite class (which, given national statistics, the college-or-more educated crowd certainly is), it is inherently elitist, no matter how much it looks out for those below it. Because a good idea comes from an elite group makes the policy proposal elitist then by default? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 The title of this thread is horrible and a mod should change it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.