Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 The Republican tax reform package that was supposed to raise wages and spur hiring has instead funded a record stock buyback and dividend spree, benefiting investors and company executives over workers. I sure as hell didn't expect it to go to workers' wages, but for it to not even go towards capital expenditures is olololololworthy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Huh. It's almost like the Republican Party's economic message for the past 38 years has been based on a lie. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Would lowering the corporate tax rate but increasing personal income taxes on higher brackets be acceptable to most people here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 minute ago, Massdriver said: Would lowering the corporate tax rate but increasing personal income taxes on higher brackets be acceptable to most people here? Do you mean lower than the 21% it is now? I'm not opposed to the lower corporate tax rate as it moves the US in-line with the rest of the OECD, but I want SIGNIFICANTLY higher personal tax rates for the upper income brackets. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioandsonic Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 No shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: Do you mean lower than the 21% it is now? I'm not opposed to the lower corporate tax rate as it moves the US in-line with the rest of the OECD, but I want SIGNIFICANTLY higher personal tax rates for the upper income brackets. Not lower than 21%, but simply raising some taxes on higher income brackets to make up for the lost tax revenue from the corporate rate cuts. I am asking because the corporate tax rate is simply an inefficient way of raising tax revenue. I wouldn't want to see it go above 25% so we stay competitive with other developed nations. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chakoo Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 I would be willing to drop the corporate tax rate to 20% in exchange for a marginal rate on personal adjusted gross incomes of $5 million and greater of 100%. In effect, the creation of a "maximum personal income". 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 28 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: I would be willing to drop the corporate tax rate to 20% in exchange for a marginal rate on personal adjusted gross incomes of $5 million and greater of 100%. In effect, the creation of a "maximum personal income". I think that would be a bad idea. Capping income would have uncertain effects on economic growth and incentives. I wish more people would get on board with a land value tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 The only other option is to hunger games the rich, the winner only loses half their fortune. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 14 minutes ago, Massdriver said: I think that would be a bad idea. Capping income would have uncertain effects on economic growth and incentives. I wish more people would get on board with a land value tax. What about an intangibles tax like Florida had for decades where intangible property (stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc) were taxed based on their value at market close on December 31? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Is this how The American Civil War II starts? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Bacon said: Is this how The American Civil War II starts? Ask black Americans if the first one ever ended. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: Ask black Americans if the first one ever ended. OK, but white guys decide when war happens and ends. So... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osxmatt Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 If only there was an entire political party that said this exact thing that is happening would happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signifyin(g)Monkey Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 It was pretty clear from the beginning that this is how the windfall would be spent; anyone predicting differently hasn’t been paying attention to corporate behavior for a looooong time. Stock buybacks have siphoned investment away from tangible capital formation and wages for large corporations for awhile now. Only smaller businesses do it the old-fashioned—and, IMO, far more economically productive—way nowadays. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
run32.dll Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 I agree with noted communist Adam Smith that we should make stock trading illegal and have a fat estate tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firewithin Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Should we....... EAT THE RICH? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, SFLUFAN said: What about an intangibles tax like Florida had for decades where intangible property (stocks, bonds, mutual funds, etc) were taxed based on their value at market close on December 31? I don't like that nearly as much as a LVT. A LVT is about as efficient as you can get and it taxes wealth at the same time. Taxing capital and investment seems like the wrong move. I would tax land value and consumption progressively if I could wage a wand a couple it with social insurance such as universal healthcare and wage subsides/negative income tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 33 minutes ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said: It was pretty clear from the beginning that this is how the windfall would be spent; anyone predicting differently hasn’t been paying attention to corporate behavior for a looooong time. Stock buybacks have siphoned investment away from tangible capital formation and wages for large corporations for awhile now. Only smaller businesses do it the old-fashioned—and, IMO, far more economically productive—way nowadays. I'm thinking that maybe some light touch restrictions on buybacks could do the economy some good and encourage capital investment, dividends, and wage increases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 30, 2018 Author Share Posted June 30, 2018 Alright @Massdriver - let's hear how this LVT works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 2 hours ago, SFLUFAN said: Alright @Massdriver - let's hear how this LVT works. https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/02/henry-georges-land-value-tax-idea-whose-time-come/ Scroll down to Land Value Taxation https://www.vox.com/2016/5/2/11533936/the-weeds-land-value-tax-explained https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2014/11/10/why-land-value-taxes-are-so-popular-yet-so-rare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax Think about it in terms of using most states' local property tax assessment systems to collect revenue and move it up. The first link I gave you goes through what it is, who it benefits, and some mechanisms on how it could work. The problem is going to be political will because real estate speculators will oppose the LVT, but I would like to point out that investors will oppose your financial wealth tax and the LVT is simply better theoretically than what you're proposing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePi Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 One of the things that has always pissed me off about my company is that every town hall meeting they seem to hold they bring up dividends. Not a stockholder's meeting, employee town hall and they're bragging to their employees about how their handing out more money to stockholders instead of increasing pay/benefits for their employees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
run32.dll Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 58 minutes ago, ThreePi said: One of the things that has always pissed me off about my company is that every town hall meeting they seem to hold they bring up dividends. Not a stockholder's meeting, employee town hall and they're bragging to their employees about how their handing out more money to stockholders instead of increasing pay/benefits for their employees. When the workers deliver a lot of surplus value and it gets passed through to the shareholders that's good. When the workers want a raise for the first time in a decade for creating that surplus value it's greedy and that kind of entitled thinking is what's wrong with the world today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputator Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 I need to stop checking CEB. This is the depressing crap that greets me. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The def star Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Hey now according to somebody on my Facebook he gets an extra $200 because of these tax cuts, FACT! Is that $200 extra a month, $200 bi weekly. I don't know but either way it's small beans compared to what corporations got out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioandsonic Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 53 minutes ago, The def star said: Hey now according to somebody on my Facebook he gets an extra $200 because of these tax cuts, FACT! Is that $200 extra a month, $200 bi weekly. I don't know but either way it's small beans compared to what corporations got out of it. I get about an extra $20 per biweekly check. Totally worth having to deal with this president for 4 (or God forbid 8) years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastlevaniaNut18 Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 I'm getting around $75 extra biweekly. I'd give it back in a heartbeat if Trump left office, along with all his shitty cronies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chairslinger Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 1 hour ago, Reputator said: I need to stop checking CEB. This is the depressing crap that greets me. In the eventuality that the Dems fail to take either chamber of Congress this year, Trump shuts down the Mueller probe, and Ruth Bader Ginsberg "retires" and makes Samuel fucking Alito the new swing vote on the court might I interest you in joining a murder/suicide pact? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBladeRoden Posted June 30, 2018 Share Posted June 30, 2018 Can't hold income tax cuts over me if I'm unemployed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signifyin(g)Monkey Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 23 hours ago, Massdriver said: https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/02/henry-georges-land-value-tax-idea-whose-time-come/ Scroll down to Land Value Taxation https://www.vox.com/2016/5/2/11533936/the-weeds-land-value-tax-explained https://www.economist.com/the-economist-explains/2014/11/10/why-land-value-taxes-are-so-popular-yet-so-rare https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax Think about it in terms of using most states' local property tax assessment systems to collect revenue and move it up. The first link I gave you goes through what it is, who it benefits, and some mechanisms on how it could work. The problem is going to be political will because real estate speculators will oppose the LVT, but I would like to point out that investors will oppose your financial wealth tax and the LVT is simply better theoretically than what you're proposing. I second revenue-raising by taxing land value. Not just for reasons for efficiency, but because it helps in fighting against the FIRE sector’s drive to load the economy up with debt and maximize the amount of economic rent that can be extracted from land by pledging the rental value of land to the banks and recycling it into mortgage interest. Economic rent does not contribute to the expansion of the economic surplus—it merely leeches parasitically off of it, and as such should form as much of the tax base as possible. Unfortunately, the financialization of our economy is so far along that powerful FIRE sector interests will pull out all the stops to prevent the imposition of something like a land value tax. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signifyin(g)Monkey Posted July 1, 2018 Share Posted July 1, 2018 22 hours ago, run32.dll said: When the workers deliver a lot of surplus value and it gets passed through to the shareholders that's good. When the workers want a raise for the first time in a decade for creating that surplus value it's greedy and that kind of entitled thinking is what's wrong with the world today. Perhaps, but all that rests on the presumption that labor creates all value; I doubt the people you need to convince in order to change these policies believe that. Plus, it’s a pretty dubious proposition on its own terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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