RedSoxFan9 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 https://www.aclu.org/blog/privacy-technology/surveillance-technologies/amazons-disturbing-plan-add-face-surveillance-yo-0 Quote While the details are sketchy, the application describes a system that the police can use to match the faces of people walking by a doorbell camera with a photo database of persons they deem “suspicious.” Likewise, homeowners can also add photos of “suspicious” people into the system and then the doorbell’s facial recognition program will scan anyone passing their home. In either case, if a match occurs, the person’s face can be automatically sent to law enforcement, and the police could arrive in minutes. ... The ACLU’s test is consistent with academic research demonstrating that face surveillance technology is less accurate for darker skinned faces and women. These systems threaten to further entangle people with law enforcement, ripping families apart and increasing the likelihood of racially biased police violence. In addition, this technology puts activists and protesters in danger when exercising their First Amendment rights. ... Imagine if a neighborhood was set up with these doorbell cameras. Simply walking up to a friend’s house could result in your face, your fingerprint, or your voice being flagged as “suspicious” and delivered to a government database without your knowledge or consent. With Amazon selling the devices, operating the servers, and pushing the technology on law enforcement, the company is building all the pieces of a surveillance network, reaching from the government all the way to our front doors. Homes in white flight suburbs will soon be able to automatically call the cops on black people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 To play devil’s advocate for a second... I CAN see the benefit of this in situations where someone has a restraining order out on someone, or if someone is being stalked, etc. But in broad strokes, the potential for abuse seems really high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 And people look at me like I'm crazy when I cite privacy concerns when I tell them I won't ever have an Amazon Alexa/ Google Home/ etc in my house Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 3 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: And people look at me like I'm crazy when I cite privacy concerns when I tell them I won't ever have an Amazon Alexa/ Google Home/ etc in my house I have zero interest in having smart devices in my home either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 44 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: I have zero interest in having smart devices in my home either. Same. This is crazy. These devices are a danger to us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remarkableriots Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, SFLUFAN said: I have zero interest in having smart devices in my home either. You don't own a smart phone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePi Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 I got 4 Echo devices and just installed a Ring doorbell a few weeks ago. They can have all my datas. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 hour ago, CayceG said: Same. This is crazy. These devices are a danger to us. You got a mobile phone, dog. You’re already fucked. Just lean into it and let Siri or Alexa run your shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 5 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said: You got a mobile phone, dog. You’re already fucked. Just lean into it and let Siri or Alexa run your shit. My phone at least nominally has a purpose other than just being a listening device. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 1 minute ago, Jason said: My phone at least nominally has a purpose other than just being a listening device. Hey whatever helps you sleep at night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePi Posted December 13, 2018 Share Posted December 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Kal-El814 said: Hey whatever helps you sleep at night. You know what helps me sleep at night? My Philips Hue bulbs that I can turn off by asking my Echo Dot. Or the Alexa smart plug that is connected to a space heater that turns on automatically to make my bedroom slightly warmer in the morning when I wake up. 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Amazon error allowed Alexa user to eavesdrop on another home Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 Given the well documented bias in face recognition systems, this tech isn't ready for primetime. Especially since unless something serious like B&E happens, police seem to think it's not worth their time and I can only imagine the ones they do respond to being more biased. In 5-10 years, I don't think I'd have a problem with it, depending on implementation. Relevant: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 48 minutes ago, Jason said: Amazon error allowed Alexa user to eavesdrop on another home Glad you posted this, when I read this thread's title this is the story I just thought of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted December 20, 2018 Share Posted December 20, 2018 First of all, this is a patent application, not a service description. Patent applications happen very early on in the creation of a real service, product, or feature and very often to not reflect what they would actually put out into the world. They're also incentivized to be as broad as possible, so while the patent might specify "suspicious," an actual product might only bother to identify wanted felons, or it might just work like Nest cameras and recognize family members so it doesn't alert you when it's someone you know. That said, there is a very real concern here based on the existing Ring community. For those unaware, if you have a Ring video doorbell (Ring is now owned by Amazon), there is a "Neighbors" section of the app that allows users to submit videos they're concerned about. Some of the videos are evidence of real crimes, primarily car theft, or at least attempted car theft. Ring has community managers that try and get these videos directly to local police. However, most of the videos posted are not that. Many are package thieves, but most are simply "suspicious person," mostly solicitors. If Ring were to implement something that identified, tracked, and reported people to the police on the basis of community suspicion, there is zero doubt in my mind that it would immediately become a racist nightmare, at least in my neighborhood. I would like to think that since Ring already has people manually sorting through Ring neighborhood posts that they'd be aware of this and not implement something as described in the patent, but it wouldn't be the first time Amazon has overstepped privacy bounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted February 9, 2019 Author Share Posted February 9, 2019 Bump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokra Posted February 9, 2019 Share Posted February 9, 2019 38 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said: Bump Dafuq? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snaynay1 Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 I have a nest doorbell that lets me save names to people the camera sees. This way every other time that person comes to the door it tells me who is there without having to go into the app and look. It works great and gets the face right every time. So fuck yes I want shit that will call the cops when known criminals come to my door. Who the fuck wouldn't? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stickey Posted February 10, 2019 Share Posted February 10, 2019 On 12/13/2018 at 10:36 AM, SFLUFAN said: I have zero interest in having smart devices in my home either. You dont need google or amazon for a smart home. I have zero interest in thinking about turning my lights on or off. Seriously, why do we even need to think about that! We have technology do so many things for us, but the light switch, nope! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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