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Update (09/18): Israel manufactured the exploding pagers used in its anti-Hezbollah operation

Commissar SFLUFAN
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Mr.Vic20

Mr.Vic20

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We can agonize all we'd like but the reality is that conflicts of this nature are morally grey as Hell. Its all around just bad. Yes, I'm pulling the "Both Sides" argument, because its as close to true as we can get. This is not two people, one on each side, with a clear narrative and claim. This is two groups of people, within which there are numerous sub groups, each with their own spin and agendas. And that's just the people who actually live there, not all the shadow puppet masters doing their various proxy dances. Its a mess, and there is no where an outsider can stand and keep their boots morally clean if they decide to take a side. The Middle East was a mess before the West decided it could play "we know better" and its even more of a mess now that we've proven that we really don't know best. 

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Spork3245

Spork3245

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52 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

We can agonize all we'd like but the reality is that conflicts of this nature are morally grey as Hell. Its all around just bad. Yes, I'm pulling the "Both Sides" argument, because its as close to true as we can get. This is not two people, one on each side, with a clear narrative and claim. This is two groups of people, within which there are numerous sub groups, each with their own spin and agendas. And that's just the people who actually live there, not all the shadow puppet masters doing their various proxy dances. Its a mess, and there is no where an outsider can stand and keep their boots morally clean if they decide to take a side. The Middle East was a mess before the West decided it could play "we know better" and its even more of a mess now that we've proven that we really don't know best. 


#BringBackTheOttomans 

Kenan Thompson Snl GIF by Saturday Night Live

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SuperSpreader

SuperSpreader

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gettyimages-2171971156.jpg?c=16x9&q=w_80

What we know about the Taiwanese firm caught up in Lebanon’s exploding pagers attack | CNN Business

WWW.CNN.COM
The deadly simultaneous explosions triggered by hundreds of pagers carried by Hezbollah members in Lebanon have thrust a little-known Taiwanese electronics manufacturer into the global spotlight...

 


 

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Hsu said that early in its relationship, the European partner only imported the Taiwanese company’s pager and communication products. Later, the company told Gold Apollo it wished to make its own pagers and asked for the right to use its brand, he added.

 

 Hsu said Gold Apollo had encountered at least one anomaly in its dealings with the European company, citing a wire transfer that took a long time to clear.

 

“We may not be a large company, but we are a responsible one,” he said. “This is very embarrassing.”

 

According to Taiwan’s Ministry of Economic Affairs, Gold Apollo shipped about 260,000 pagers from the island, mostly to the United States and Australia, between the start of 2022 to August 2024.

 

Taipei has no record of Gold Apollo pagers being shipped to Lebanon, the ministry said in a statement, adding it will continue to investigate.

 

 

 

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At the start of the year, Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah called on members and their families in the south of the country, where fighting with Israeli forces across the border has raged, to dump their cellphones, believing Israel could track the movement of the Iran-backed terror network through those devices.

 

 

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S3xB0t

S3xB0t

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14 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said:

The explosion so nice they blew it twice:

 

108035866-1726671203039-gettyimages-2171

Hezbollah hand-held radios detonate across Lebanon, sources say

WWW.CNBC.COM
Hand-held radios used by Hezbollah detonated late on Wednesday afternoon across Lebanon's south and in Beirut's southern suburbs, sources told...

 

 

This should help the ceasefire talks. No doubt about it.

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Jwheel86

Jwheel86

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4 hours ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

We can agonize all we'd like but the reality is that conflicts of this nature are morally grey as Hell. Its all around just bad. Yes, I'm pulling the "Both Sides" argument, because its as close to true as we can get. This is not two people, one on each side, with a clear narrative and claim. This is two groups of people, within which there are numerous sub groups, each with their own spin and agendas. And that's just the people who actually live there, not all the shadow puppet masters doing their various proxy dances. Its a mess, and there is no where an outsider can stand and keep their boots morally clean if they decide to take a side. The Middle East was a mess before the West decided it could play "we know better" and its even more of a mess now that we've proven that we really don't know best. 

 

Iran has a good deal going with Russia and given everything that's happened in the last year, it is pretty clear Iran doesn't want a war (and by extension Russia since the Iranian drone and missile factories supplying Russia are absolutely on the US target list). Iran just needs to stay on course to getting a nuke in a few years and then regime is externally secure. Absent deterrents, Israel has no reason not to degrade Hezbollah's capabilities. If Israel can also bait Iran and the US into a war, that's a bonus for Israel, that's better for Israel long term since the US and IAF can hit the nuclear facilities in addition to the drone and missile factories. 

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AbsolutSurgen

AbsolutSurgen

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34 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

 

Hezbollah will never agree to a ceasefire, the destruction of Israel has been their cause for 42 years

Exactly.

 

"our struggle will end only when this entity [Israel] is obliterated. We recognize no treaty with it, no ceasefire, and no peace agreements." -- Hezbollah Charter

"There is no solution to the conflict in this region except with the disappearance of Israel." - Hassan Nasrallah, Secretary General of Hezbollah

 

This isn't really "morally complicated", and there is not really a grey area here.  They are shia radicals, and an organization created by Khomeinist Iranians that are committed to the destruction of Israel (and "death to America" for whatever that means).

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AbsolutSurgen

AbsolutSurgen

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4 hours ago, SuperSpreader said:

All this worked fine when people in the middle east were a bunch of Bedouin wanderers, but once the British discovered oil there and armed them it's been a total mess.

I think it goes back at least to the 7th century, and depending on which mess you are referring to, potentially much earlier than that. 

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SuperSpreader

SuperSpreader

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44 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I think it goes back at least to the 7th century, and depending on which mess you are referring to, potentially much earlier than that. 

 

640px-Petrochemical_Complexes_in_Asaluye

 

 

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The history of Iran's oil industry began in 1901, when British speculator William D'Arcy received a concession from Iran to explore and develop southern Iran's oil resources. The exploration in Iran was led by George Reynolds. The discovery of oil on May 26, 1908[13] led to the formation in 1909 of the London-based Anglo-Persian Oil Company (APOC). By purchasing a majority of the company's shares in 1914, the British government gained direct control of the Iranian oil industry, which it would not relinquish for 37 years. After 1935 the APOC was called the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (AIOC). A 60-year agreement signed in 1933 established a flat payment to Iran of four British pounds for every ton of crude oil exported and denied Iran any right to control oil exports.[5]

 

 

 

 

Dammam_No._7_on_March_4%2C_1938.jpg

Dammam No. 7 - Wikipedia

EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG
Dammam_No._7_on_March_4%2C_1938.jpg

 

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When drilling commenced in the 1930s, there was uncertainty as to whether oil even existed in the kingdom.[2] However, Saudi Arabia was motivated to search for oil after learning about the discovery of oil by neighboring country Bahrain in 1932.[3] After failing to find significant quantities of oil in the first six wells (Dammam No. 1–6),[4] Saudi Aramco (then known as the California Arabian Standard Oil Company or CASOC) ordered a halt to all oil drilling in the Kingdom except at No. 7 in November 1937; by this time, the well was already twice as deep as the "Bahrain Zone", the depth at which oil was first discovered in Bahrain.[5]

 

 

 

Basically the discovery and demand of Oil by Western countries funded and fueled and helped create the modern states.

 

Not only did western countries (THE BRITISH) help create the modern state of Israel they also helped create the modern state of all these states!

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S3xB0t

S3xB0t

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5 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

This isn't really "morally complicated", and there is not really a grey area here.

It’s definitely complicated and morally grey. Both Hezbollah and the right wing extremists in the Israeli government are terrorists. You think everyday Israelis and Palestinians want this shit? No, but it’s definitely a complex question as to who gets what land and how they get to defend it. 

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AbsolutSurgen

AbsolutSurgen

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33 minutes ago, S3xB0t said:

It’s definitely complicated and morally grey. Both Hezbollah and the right wing extremists in the Israeli government are terrorists. You think everyday Israelis and Palestinians want this shit? No, but it’s definitely a complex question as to who gets what land and how they get to defend it. 

There are lots of morally grey governments and organizations in the Middle East. Hezbollah isn’t one of them. 

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TwinIon

TwinIon

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I know the Israelis won't be talking about how this was accomplished anytime soon, but I really hope that someone is able to get one of these and provide a real technical assessment. I still feel confident that the blast on video wasn't an unaltered battery merely manipulated by software, but I have no idea what you could do if you altered the battery or other components and used that as a starting point.

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  • Commissar SFLUFAN changed the title to Update (09/18): Israel manufactured the exploding pagers used in its anti-Hezbollah operation
TUFKAK

TUFKAK

Posted
Posted
10 hours ago, S3xB0t said:

It’s definitely complicated and morally grey. Both Hezbollah and the right wing extremists in the Israeli government are terrorists. You think everyday Israelis and Palestinians want this shit? No, but it’s definitely a complex question as to who gets what land and how they get to defend it. 

The difference is one is a minority faction main stream Israelis hate as extremist morons, the other is their damn govt.

 

this is not the same thing.

 

Israel is a nuclear armed state and controls the territory, the debate is settled.

 

 

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Air_Delivery

Air_Delivery

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26 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

The difference is one is a minority faction main stream Israelis hate as extremist morons, the other is their damn govt.

 

this is not the same thing.

 

Israel is a nuclear armed state and controls the territory, the debate is settled.

 

 

I'd say that minority faction has oversized influence.

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