cusideabelincoln Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 I know @Mr.Vic20 has one of these. TLDW: 13th/14th gen CPUs are potentially degrading more rapidly than normal, compared to 12th gen and AMD chips. Nobody knows why yet nor if the problem can be fixed with BIOS updates, and Intel hasn't said anything on this matter since they blamed motherboard makers a few weeks ago. The degradation was caught by game crash logs. People were experiencing random crashes, instability, and odd behavior with their Intel CPUs. Intel blamed motherboard makers for pushing power targets higher than the CPUs could handle, so BIOS updates were released. But Wendell went over data that suggests normal and lower power 13/14th gen processors still have a higher rate of error generation than other series. This still needs to be verified, but otherwise a large percentage of xx900K series do have a serious problem. Funnily enough the instability causes false positives for anti-cheat software and accounts were banned because of it. Anecdotally there was definitely a round of streamers in Overwatch who were banned out of the blue a month or two back so I wonder if this Intel stability was the culprit. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Vic20 Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 Wonderful! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkStar189 Posted July 13 Share Posted July 13 The thought of your cpu possibly getting you banned from a game sure is something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApatheticSarcasm Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Oh boy, I'm still running a 13900K, but we'll see what happens. I've gotten maybe a handful of crashes that occurred during stuff like gaming or watching videos. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Vic20 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Haven’t had any problems so far, but I suppose that doesn’t indicate anything either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Surprisingly little data showed in the video. More data, less talking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cusideabelincoln Posted July 14 Author Share Posted July 14 8 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: Surprisingly little data showed in the video. More data, less talking. I don't think he has permission to share the data. But other reports are happening Warframe devs report 80% of game crashes happen on Intel's overclockable Core i9 chips — Core i7 K-series CPUs also have high crash rates Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 12 hours ago, DarkStar189 said: The thought of your cpu possibly getting you banned from a game sure is something. FWIW, one of AMDs video card drivers that enabled some anti-lag feature was getting people banned not long ago. Having good PC hardware in general is a bannable offense now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Posted July 14 Share Posted July 14 Looks like I dodged a... Shit... Too soon. By going with a 7950x. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cusideabelincoln Posted July 15 Author Share Posted July 15 On 7/13/2024 at 10:13 PM, Mr.Vic20 said: Haven’t had any problems so far, but I suppose that doesn’t indicate anything either way. Looks like Intel is going to push an extremely aggressive BIOS update which is most likely going to significantly reduce performance since they need to drastically change the voltage/frequency curve embedded on the CPUs. The high voltages that most of the K processors need to reach their max boosting frequency is killing the chips, starting with the worst binned ones. Because not all the same SKU CPUs are the same and there is a wide range of voltages required to meet the frequency spec, let's hope you got a golden sample which doesn't require a lot of voltage. In the meantime enforce the default Intel power limits they released a month back in BIOS updates and disable Thermal Velocity Boost. Keeping the CPU below 1.4V as possible seems to help them from dying so quick, because the higher the voltages for the longest amount of time kill chips the quickest, so an undervolt/underclock might be necessary. And then just wait for Intel to actually release real information as to what exactly are the safe voltages for these chips to last as long as you'd expect them to last. You might actually be better off manually tuning an underclock than using the new BIOS, especially if it's an aggressively rushed one that's meant to stop the bleeding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApatheticSarcasm Posted July 15 Share Posted July 15 Thanks for the heads up @cusideabelincoln I've got HW info running and I'll have it up while I game to see if I am exceeding 1.4v after I have disabled thermal velocity boost. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cusideabelincoln Posted July 23 Author Share Posted July 23 @Mr.Vic20 @ApatheticSarcasm Intel finally announces a solution for CPU crashing and instability problems — claims elevated voltages are the root cause; patch coming by mid-August [Updated] | Tom's Hardware WWW.TOMSHARDWARE.COM Patch is on the way. TLDR: -Buggy code caused CPUs to request more voltage than necessary. -Currently degraded CPUs won't be fixed, but they will be replaced. -New code will fix the issue with presumably little to no performance regression. If we take Intel at face value then it seems like most people were right about too much voltage, but over-estimated the cause by stating the "default" boosting behavior was the problem while Intel is saying it is a buggy boosting behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Intel claims that hit has discovered the root cause for these issues. Intel finally announces a solution for CPU crashing and instability problems — claims elevated voltages are the root cause; patch coming by mid-August [Updated] | Tom's Hardware WWW.TOMSHARDWARE.COM Patch is on the way. Quote Intel has announced that it has found the root cause of the crashing issues plaguing its CPUs. The company will issue a microcode update to address the issues by mid-August, ostensibly ending the long-running saga that began when the first sporadic reports of CPU crashing errors surfaced in December 2022 and grew to a crescendo by the end of 2023. Intel's response comes after complaints about the issue, which causes PCs to inexplicably crash/BSOD during gaming and other workloads, reached a fever pitch in recent weeks. However, the microcode update will not repair impacted processors. Intel also confirmed a rumored issue with via oxidation in its 7nm node, but said those issues were corrected in 2023 and didn't contribute to the failures. Intel's advisory says an erroneous CPU microcode is the root cause of the incessant instability issues. The microcode caused the CPU to request elevated voltage levels, resulting in the processor operating outside its safe boundaries. Intel is now validating a microcode patch to correct the issues, with its release slated for mid-August. This patch will be distributed through BIOS updates from motherboard OEMs and via Windows updates, so the timing for end-user availability could vary. The bug causes irreversible degradation of the impacted processors. We're told that the microcode patch will not repair processors already experiencing crashes, but it is expected to prevent issues on processors that aren't currently impacted by the issue. For now, it is unclear if CPUs exposed to excessive voltage have suffered from invisible degradation or damage that hasn't resulted in crashes yet but could lead to errors or crashes in the future. It's somewhat amusing that Intel announced that it had "discovered" the root cause just a few hours after Digital Foundry put 'em on blast! DF Weekly: Intel has a CPU instability problem - and it's time for answers WWW.EUROGAMER.NET It's a packed DF Direct this week, with 15 discussion points over 135 minutes - but it's the state of play with Intel's… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Looks like @cusideabelincoln and me were on the same page 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Vic20 Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 Official undervolting, here we come! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Sounds similar to what was causing some AMD CPUs to explode a year or so back, however this seems like it’s chip-level and not just the mobo-manufacturers being dingbats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cusideabelincoln Posted August 2 Author Share Posted August 2 Intel is extending warranties by 2 years. Also confirmed that some chips have an actual manufacturing defect that lasted over a year of production. However you might have to be vigilant to actually get your RMA: Class action lawsuits are in the works, and Gamers Nexus posted something ominous on Twitter: Quote Intel is unbelievably slimy. Multi-part report soon. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApatheticSarcasm Posted August 5 Share Posted August 5 On 8/2/2024 at 2:35 PM, cusideabelincoln said: Intel is extending warranties by 2 years. Also confirmed that some chips have an actual manufacturing defect that lasted over a year of production. However you might have to be vigilant to actually get your RMA: Class action lawsuits are in the works, and Gamers Nexus posted something ominous on Twitter: I just watched the Gamers Nexus video too, it looks like a shitstorm is in progress, right now I'm just running my main rig as little as possible and using my other two systems in the meantime. If I needed a kick in the pants to start a new build, this is as good a reason as any to start looking at AMD again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted August 29 Share Posted August 29 I never did get crashing, but I don’t think my 13700KF gets pushed as hard as a 13900K. A couple weeks ago I updated my BIOS with the new intel microcode. So I think I am fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cusideabelincoln Posted August 30 Author Share Posted August 30 So far the new microcode does indeed dial back the voltage spikes with minimal loss in performance. Long term stability will simply take.... longer to verify. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ApatheticSarcasm Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 Updated the BIOS yesterday and crossing my fingers on this. I'll probably run my main through the ringer to see if I get any unexplained game crashes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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