France parliamentary elections (second round - 07/07): left-wing alliance claims "surprise" plurality of seats, can combine with centrists for majority

[CitizenVectron]

1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said:

I don't understand how conservative governments keep getting elected into power. With more old people dying every year and more young people becoming eligible to vote every year one would think governments would be getting more liberal, not less. 

 

Are there a lot of young die-hard conservatives out there? I know there are some, but enough for clear landslide elections in all these countries? It's strange to me, not sure what I'm missing here. Most young people I see online or in real life are very progressive, moreso than previous generations on average as people get conservative the older the get, not younger. So what's the deal?

 

There are many factors at play, but I think primarily just vote based on how their own pocketbook is doing, unless there is some major crisis or issue at play that affects them or their loved ones. "Left-wing" parties have been effectively running the western world for the last decade or so, with some exceptions, but they've really just been performative when it comes to economic issues. These liberal governments have continued to allow massive capital densification at the top, along with amazing increases in cost of living, primarily through housing cost increases. So when people are struggling, they tend to care less about the plight of others. Now, that doesn't apply to everyone and everything. Also, people tend to just get tired of governments and vote them out, rather than vote the other side in. That's what's going to happen in Canada, next year, basically.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

@Greatoneshere - here's your answer:

 

Why Europe’s young people are voting far right – POLITICO

WWW.POLITICO.EU

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Their grandparents ushered in the sexual revolution. Today’s youth want to turn back the clock to 1950.

 

 

Analysis: Why Europe’s youth are flirting with the far-right | CNN

WWW.CNN.COM

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A few years ago, “Generation Climate” were voting mostly green. But now their vote has helped far-right parties capture one in four seats in Brussels. What happened?

 

 

 

How far-right parties seduced young voters across Europe | Albena Azmanova | The Guardian

WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM

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Young people abandoned mainstream parties in last weekend’s European elections – a sign that their anxieties are not being heard, says author Albena Azmanova

 

[Greatoneshere]

Well those were depressing to read.  So young people just became stupid? The third article outlines that young peoples' job security fears are fueling their economic despondency, along with a migration crisis and Covid. But far left parties do the most to help the economically struggling, etc. The far right does policies like austerity and Trump's stupid 10% tariff on all goods. So are the young stupid, is that what happened? Because they're voting against their own interests when the far left advertise themselves as those who actually care about helping people, it's kind of hard to miss. None of the articles explain this cognitive dissonance. How is voting for far right goons who won't help your despondency but only make it worse make sense? I'm at a loss there, but at least the reasons for their despondency are clear. Just not sure how that leads to far right support though.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

European far-right parties tend to adopt ostensibly leftist economic policies.  It's on social issues where their right-wing credentials are prevalent.

[SuperSpreader]

50 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

The Sanchez government is hanging on by a thread.

 

Dirty Sanchez

 

45 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Are there a lot of young die-hard conservatives out there?

 

Yes

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

European far-right parties tend to adopt ostensibly leftist economic policies.  It's on social issues where their right-wing credentials are prevalent.

 

Does the UK fall under European far-right parties? Because their economic policies were definitely not leftist. But if that's the case, it does make more sense then, though I'm surprised young people are willing to get so hateful to give up on social values but it does seem to be the case. So what are leftist economic policies in these countries if the far right are already doing leftist economic policies? And how can you have leftist economic policies when you have far right social values? Wouldn't those contradict each other since one's regressive social values would not want to enact leftist economic policies that help minorities, the poor, women and the indigent since the far right hates helping such groups?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

33 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Does the UK fall under European far-right parties? Because their economic policies were definitely not leftist. But if that's the case, it does make more sense then, though I'm surprised young people are willing to get so hateful to give up on social values but it does seem to be the case. So what are leftist economic policies in these countries if the far right are already doing leftist economic policies? And how can you have leftist economic policies when you have far right social values? Wouldn't those contradict each other since one's regressive social values would not want to enact leftist economic policies that help minorities, the poor, women and the indigent since the far right hates helping such groups?

 

What are you referring to in regard to the UK?

 

In regard to the adoption of leftist economic policies while maintaining right-wing social policies, the best example I can give is Le Pen's policies in France:

 

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On economic policy, Le Pen favours protectionism as an alternative to free trade. She supports economic nationalism, the separation of investment and retail banking, and energy diversification, and is opposed to the privatization of public services and social security, speculation on international commodity markets, and the Common Agricultural Policy.

 

We can quibble about the details, but these are positions that are largely indistinguishable from those of most of the French left.

[PaladinSolo]

Frenchies turning out to vote.

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 hour ago, PaladinSolo said:

Frenchies turning out to vote.

 

 

All indications is that this bodes "well" for Le Pen's party.

 

This is the highest turnout for a French national election in four decades.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

From the BBC:

 

Quote

 

Far right makes big gains in election first round - exit polls
 

BREAKING

 

And we can now bring you the first estimates of the results in the first round of the French parliamentary elections, based on initial exit polls given by France 2.

 

National Rally: 34%
New Popular Front: 28.1%
French President Macron's centrist Ensemble alliance: 20.3%
Republicans: 10.2%

 

 

[CitizenVectron]

For anyone wondering, the New Popular Front is the combined left wing, which has banded together under a common banner to try and stop the far-right.

[Siebzehn]

Quote

 

That’s both a blessing and a curse for Macron’s liberals and the left wing alliance. The third best-placed candidates in three-way contests dominated by the far right will face pressure to withdraw and rally behind the second best-placed to defeat the National Rally candidate.

 

While the Greens and Socialists have indicated that would be their policy, Macron’s camp and Mélenchon’s Left Unbowed have left that unclear. Their decision on Sunday night will be highly scrutinised.

 

 

French election: Your guide to a vote that is set to shake the EU and NATO – POLITICO

WWW.POLITICO.EU

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Global strategic and financial consequences hang on the outcome of the June 30 and July 7 ballot — a complex, two-round process that needs some explanation.

 

 

Now we find out what they'll do. Hopefully they join the plan to fuck the National Rally

[CitizenVectron]

29 minutes ago, Siebzehn said:

 

French election: Your guide to a vote that is set to shake the EU and NATO – POLITICO

WWW.POLITICO.EU

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Global strategic and financial consequences hang on the outcome of the June 30 and July 7 ballot — a complex, two-round process that needs some...

 

Now we find out what they'll do. Hopefully they join the plan to fuck the National Rally

 

Centrist parties have a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong history of preferring the right-wing to win, rather than ceding official opposition status to the left-wing, because they know that it means they will be the default choice to win again when the right-wing party gets unpopular. But this assumes that the right-wing doesn't abolish democracy...which today, is unclear.

[Siebzehn]

5 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Centrist parties have a loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong history of preferring the right-wing to win, rather than ceding official opposition status to the left-wing, because they know that it means they will be the default choice to win again when the right-wing party gets unpopular. But this assumes that the right-wing doesn't abolish democracy...which today, is unclear.

Definitely, and I'm certainly worried about it. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Le Pen’s far right set for big win in first round of French election – POLITICO

WWW.POLITICO.EU

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National Rally on course for victory in the vote for a new parliament as Emmanuel Macron’s election gamble backfires.

 

For next Sunday's second round:

 

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According to early projections based on exit polls, Le Pen’s party is expected to get 230-280 seats in the 577-seat assembly, the left wing alliance 125-165 seats and Macron’s coalition 70-100.

 

Seat projections however are conjectural at this stage and dependent on political decisions taken in the coming days ahead of the second round of voting on July 7.

 

[PaladinSolo]

The left wing party has said it's willing to pull its candidates if theirs are in 3rd place in order to block any far right candidates from winning. So it's now on the centrists to see how much they're willing to give to block the far right. 

[PaladinSolo]

Macrons party has followed the lefts lead and will also pull any of its candidates that are in 3rd,this will severely limit RNs gains. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

21 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said:

Macrons party has followed the lefts lead and will also pull any of its candidates that are in 3rd,this will severely limit RNs gains. 

 

Except in constituencies where the left-wing alliance is represented by the LFI.

[Greatoneshere]

On 6/29/2024 at 6:05 PM, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

What are you referring to in regard to the UK?

 

Like austerity policies and tax hikes on the poor and middle classes. Those are definitely not leftist economic policies. 

 

On 6/29/2024 at 6:05 PM, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

In regard to the adoption of leftist economic policies while maintaining right-wing social policies, the best example I can give is Le Pen's policies in France:

 

We can quibble about the details, but these are positions that are largely indistinguishable from those of most of the French left.

 

I agree, those sound like leftist economic policies in America. The rub for me comes in that she is opposed to the privatization of public services and social security, which are leftist economic policies, but these sorts of policies help minorities and the poor and destitute, etc.; typically groups the far right intentionally likes going after. So the far-right doesn't mind continuing to bolster and help these people they presumably hate with leftist economic policies? It's clearly happening, it's just their thinking is confusing to me. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

7 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

I agree, those sound like leftist economic policies in America. The rub for me comes in that she is opposed to the privatization of public services and social security, which are leftist economic policies, but these sorts of policies help minorities and the poor and destitute, etc.; typically groups the far right intentionally likes going after. So the far-right doesn't mind continuing to bolster and help these people they presumably hate with leftist economic policies? It's clearly happening, it's just their thinking is confusing to me. 

 

The benefits of those policies would largely apply only to French citizens which would exclude the vast majority of those from the Middle East and North Africa who live in France, so there's your right-wing aspect.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

4 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Like austerity and tax hikes on the poor and middle class. Those are definitely not leftist economic policies. 

 

I'm still not following - the UK Conservative Party is a right of center party so those policies make sense for it to implement.

[Greatoneshere]

4 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

The benefits of those policies would largely  apply only to French citizens which would exclude the vast majority of those from the Middle East and North Africa who live in France, so there's your right-wing aspect.

 

That's a good point, I know the French are xenophobic but with immigration on the rise everywhere I assumed once those Middle Easterners and North Africans are made French citizens then they'd benefit from these policies but it sounds like becoming a French citizen isn't happening for those groups?

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said:

That's a good point, I know the French are xenophobic but with immigration on the rise everywhere I assumed once those Middle Easterners and North Africans are made French citizens then they'd benefit from these policies but it sounds like becoming a French citizen isn't happening for those groups? It looks like currently less than 5% of all French citizens are non-white/non-European.

 

It's practically impossible to become a naturalized citizen of most Western European countries without jumping through flaming hoops if you don't have some "link" to the country.

[Greatoneshere]

4 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

I'm still not following - the UK Conservative Party is a right of center party so those policies make sense for it to implement.

 

My original point was that the UK is in Europe but its right wing leaning party did not implement leftist economic policies. As you said, austerity and tax hikes make sense. This is different than in France as we've been discussing, so I was wondering if mainland Europe is different than the UK in this way since in mainland Europe the far right are doing leftist economic policies. Sounds like immigration might be the difference maker here.

[Greatoneshere]

1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

It's practically impossible to become a naturalized citizen of most Western European countries without jumping through flaming hoops if you don't have some "link" to the country.

 

If that's the case then yeah I could see it being very easy to be far right but implement leftist economic policies. If you only have your own tribe in the country, that changes things. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

Just now, Greatoneshere said:

 

My original point was that the UK is in Europe but it's right wing leaning party did not implement leftist economic policies. As you said, austerity and tax hikes make sense. This is different than in France as we've been discussing, so I was wondering if mainland Europe is different than the UK in this way since in mainland Europe the far right are doing leftist economic policies. 

 

The populist right-wing parties in Europe are different than a center-right party like the UK Conservatives.  There are European center-right parties like the Conservatives, but they are steadily losing ground to the populist right.

[Greatoneshere]

4 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

The populist right-wing parties in Europe are different than a center-right party like the UK Conservatives.  There are European center-right parties like the Conservatives, but they are steadily losing ground to the populist right.

 

Everything really is going to shit huh? But this makes a lot of sense. Hopefully young conservatives wise up as they get older but kind of hard to hate on a party giving you leftist economic policies. Most people's social liberalness suddenly goes out the window if you give them strong progressive economic policies. Why care about minorities when you're doing well?

[Siebzehn]

 

From this:

 

[TwinIon]

Quote

Consider these policy proposals. Young people will pay no income tax. If they start a business, they will be exempt from corporation tax for five years. Students working part-time will have their wages topped up by the state, which will also build 100,000 units of student housing. They can also travel by train for free.

I can understand why a young person would be eager to vote for a party promising me things like that.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

20 minutes ago, Siebzehn said:

 

From this:

 

 

Oh yeah - the political center is dead in France.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Oh yeah - the political center is dead in France.

 

The Center Collapses in France, Leaving Macron Marooned - The New York Times

WWW.NYTIMES.COM

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Squeezed by the far-right National Rally party and the left, President Emmanuel Macron faces a country that may prove ungovernable.

 

 

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An era has ended in France.

 

The seven-year domination of national politics by President Emmanuel Macron was laid to rest by his party’s overwhelming defeat in the first round of parliamentary elections on Sunday. Not only did he dissolve Parliament by calling a snap vote, he effectively dissolved the centrist movement known as “Macronism.”

 

The far-right National Rally, in winning a third of the vote, did not guarantee that it will win an absolute majority in a runoff six days from now, although it will likely get close. But Mr. Macron, risking all by calling the election, did end up guaranteeing that he will be marginalized, with perhaps no more than a third of the seats his party now holds.

 

[Greatoneshere]

Where does the far-right stand with LGBTQ+ minorities in mainland Europe? They wouldn't necessarily be immigrants but actual citizens of their countries and I can't imagine leftist economic policies are enough for the LGBTQ+ community if their rights are otherwise being trampled. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

15 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Where does the far-right stand with LGBTQ+ minorities in mainland Europe? They wouldn't necessarily be immigrants but actual citizens of their countries and I can't imagine leftist economic policies are enough for the LGBTQ+ community if their rights are otherwise being trampled. 

 

I'm sure it varies from party to party, but this is Le Pen's stance on a few social issues:

 

 

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Marine Le Pen has also relaxed some political positions of the party, advocating for civil unions for same-sex couples instead of her party's previous opposition to legal recognition of same-sex partnerships, accepting unconditional abortion and withdrawing the death penalty from her platform.

 

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

I'm sure it varies from party to party, but this is Le Pen's stance on a few social issues:

 

I mean, with all of these liberal social policies and leftist economic policies, except for immigration, what's making them far right?  

[TUFKAK]

Just now, Greatoneshere said:

 

I mean, with all of these liberal social policies and leftist economic policies, except for immigration, what's making them far right?  

The browns