Movies Star Wars Boss Says Women in Star Wars Suffer From Toxicity Due to male Dominated Fan Base

[Spork3245]

33 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

but we both know that's just been studios and corporations regardless of social values.

 

The idea that studios/corporations actually have values beyond "money" has always been a weird one to me.  

Part of the reason 2016 Ghostbusters sucked though wasn't just because bad movies happen, and it also wasn't solely because of the gender swap: I'd argue it was a "lazy cash grab" above all else, and it was certainly relying on said gender swap to drive sales/attention instead of having any love for the original movies (again, female characters wasn't the reason it sucked, it was the lazy reliance on "look we changed ghostbusters!" vs making a good movie that ultimately contributed to it sucking). I remember the insane hate people got just for questioning if the movie would be good - I mean, a good chunk of the criticism was certainly "wah wah, they made a Ghostbuster's with women", but some people got attacked hardcore just for saying anything other than "OMG yes!": I think AVGN posted a reaction to the trailer and said something like "I wish they stayed true to the characters I grew up with, I'll still go see this version, but I'm a little disappointed" (without knowing the extreme reactions people were having to this movie) and hooooooly shit, it was like he said "I hate women and only men should bust ghosts"

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, Spork3245 said:

The idea that studios/corporations actually have values beyond "money" has always been a weird one to me.  

 

I remember the insane hate people got just for questioning if the movie would be good - I mean, a good chunk of the criticism was certainly "wah wah, they made a Ghostbuster's with women", but some people got attacked hardcore just for saying anything other than "OMG yes!".

 

I also think it's weird - companies and studios are most motivated by the bottom line far before anything else. Sure, there are specific CEO's, studio heads and producers who love the craft and are out to try and make good movies (that's how we end up with stuff like Barbie, Oppenheimer and A24 Pictures) but in the end it's always about the money. Now I'll take perpetuating performative wokeness cash grabs over perpetuating regressive, white, male cishet culture hegemony cash grabs because they're at least accidentally making things equal for the viewing audience and forcing exposure to other peoples and cultures that tears down that hegemony even if the intent is to hit more marketing quadrants and make more money. It's still a win.

 

I also agree that criticism in this area has been befouled by the alt-right. It can be tough to criticize stuff like The Last Jedi or Ghostbusters 2016 or Ocean's Eight (a movie I found middling and everyone here knows my politics) without getting associated with the alt-right because the problem is they're criticizing this stuff for bad reasons (as you pointed out, the "wah wah they made women Ghostbusters") and then someone may want to criticize the movie on legitimate grounds (bad plot, poor acting, wooden dialogue, didn't feel like Ghostbusters, whatever) and is called out as being part of the "hates it like the alt-right hates it because they both hate it" crowd and the legitimate criticisms get lost in trying to suss out whether this person hates it because it stars women and is trying to couch that sexism within legitimate criticisms (which people do, and is a concern) or if they're just giving real criticisms they believe are because the movie simply fails as a movie. I think that's where the rub comes in. But there are always legitimate criticisms to hurl at any movie, "woke" movies like these, The Little Mermaid, Mulan, etc., no question. It's a shame the alt-right has hijacked legitimate criticism because of their racism, bigotry, misogyny, etc.

[Spork3245]

56 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I also think it's weird - companies and studios are most motivated by the bottom line far before anything else. Sure, there are specific CEO's, studio heads and producers who love the craft and are out to try and make good movies (that's how we end up with stuff like Barbie, Oppenheimer and A24 Pictures) but in the end it's always about the money. Now I'll take perpetuating performative wokeness cash grabs over perpetuating regressive, white, male cishet culture hegemony cash grabs because they're at least accidentally making things equal for the viewing audience and forcing exposure to other peoples and cultures that tears down that hegemony even if the intent is to hit more marketing quadrants and make more money. It's still a win.

 

I also agree that criticism in this area has been befouled by the alt-right. It can be tough to criticize stuff like The Last Jedi or Ghostbusters 2016 or Ocean's Eight (a movie I found middling and everyone here knows my politics) without getting associated with the alt-right because the problem is they're criticizing this stuff for bad reasons (as you pointed out, the "wah wah they made women Ghostbusters") and then someone may want to criticize the movie on legitimate grounds (bad plot, poor acting, wooden dialogue, didn't feel like Ghostbusters, whatever) and is called out as being part of the "hates it like the alt-right hates it because they both hate it" crowd and the legitimate criticisms get lost in trying to suss out whether this person hates it because it stars women and is trying to couch that sexism within legitimate criticisms (which people do, and is a concern) or if they're just giving real criticisms they believe are because the movie simply fails as a movie. I think that's where the rub comes in. But there are always legitimate criticisms to hurl at any movie, "woke" movies like these, The Little Mermaid, Mulan, etc., no question. It's a shame the alt-right has hijacked legitimate criticism because of their racism, bigotry, misogyny, etc.

 

Yea, I definitely don't really disagree. 

IIRC the AVGN's follow-up after getting ripped apart (for having a reasonable reaction to the trailer) was a video after the movie released that was titled "Ghostbusters 2016 review" and it was a 30 second long video with the comments disabled where he just says "Nope. I refuse. Have a good day"