stepee Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 9 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: So, despite historical precedent, you guys are willing to very possibly throw the election to Trump because Biden looked bad at a debate and is old? The election is less than 4 months away. If the last two times Democrats tried to do an open convention and lost, likely it will happen this third time. You really want to roll the dice on that rather than hope we get past this, Biden steps up, rides his incumbency wave, campaign on what he accomplished, etc.? I don't like Biden either as a candidate because of his age, I voted against him in the 2020 Democratic primary, but the Democrats made their bed back then. Biden didn't change his mind, so here we are. I don't think it's worth risking losing whatever advantage Biden gives us (he did beat Trump in 2020) just so we can all feel better for 4 months and then lose more decisively. That doesn't mean Biden shouldn't be pressured to do a lot more campaigning, etc. But Democrats are shooting themselves in the foot by continuing to perpetuate this narrative long term in the media. I don’t think they should do it at this stage but if dems won’t shut up about it then fine do it right fucking now - otherwise yeah I just want them to shut up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 1 minute ago, stepee said: I don’t think they should do it at this stage but if dems won’t shut up about it then fine do it right fucking now - otherwise yeah I just want them to shut up. Counterpoint: dems are fucking idiots who love shooting themselves in the foot whenever possible 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 19 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: So, despite historical precedent, you guys are willing to very possibly throw the election to Trump because Biden looked bad at a debate and is old? The election is less than 4 months away. If the last two times Democrats tried to do an open convention and lost, likely it will happen this third time. You really want to roll the dice on that rather than hope we get past this, Biden steps up, rides his incumbency wave, campaign on what he accomplished, etc.? (1) There won't be an "open convention" as the pledged delegates will switch to Harris. (2) If the reporting is to be believed, Biden himself is thinking these thoughts as a responsible candidate would which is to his great credit. (3) What "incumbency wave"?!? There is zero evidence that one exists for Biden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 New idea: Swap Biden’s and have Jill as president and Joe as first man 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarSolo Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 It’d be nice if the media decided to talk about Trump calling Epstein an awful lot or Kennedy liking barbecued dog while he fondled his babysitter. You know, change it up a bit. It’s a little more of an exotic story than “Biden did bad at debate”. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 18 minutes ago, stepee said: I don’t think they should do it at this stage but if dems won’t shut up about it then fine do it right fucking now - otherwise yeah I just want them to shut up. Well this prevaricating they're basically doing isn't helping matters. I agree, they should put up or shut up. 16 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: (1) There won't be an "open convention" as the pledged delegates will switch to Harris. (2) If the reporting is to be believed, Biden himself is thinking these thoughts as a responsible candidate would which is to his great credit. (3) What "incumbency wave"?!? There is zero evidence that one exists for Biden. All true, but: 1. Harris is unpopular enough that this would ostensibly be an "open convention" and if it isn't because it has to be Harris, is that really better? People have always seemed to dislike her or hate her (even on the left), her being the nominee would absolutely galvanize (even further) the racists and bigots and sexists on the right (some might be okay with Biden because he's a white Christian man so they don't vote Trump or don't vote at all but may vote Trump to make sure Harris isn't president because racism/sexism). 2. I also think this is good but more as a wake-up call to Biden to do a lot more, not to step down. 3. I mean, to some degree every president has an incumbency wave. Name recognition goes far with the average voter, who feels typically more comfortable voting for someone they know of vs. someone they don't. Isn't the whole problem with Starmer in the UK for the Labour party is that he's basically an unknown, sudden candidate who is completely vanilla? Incumbents always have an advantage, even if they are (in)famous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 2 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: her being the nominee would absolutely galvanize (even further) the racists and bigots and sexists on the right Right but have you considered if you add a winner VP like a Buttigieg, a gay man. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarSolo Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Wait, so I’m seeing “Biden takes naps” as a disqualifying point. Motherfuker, I take naps, they’re great! TRUMP KEPT FALLING ASLEEP DURING HIS TRIAL WHAT ARE WE EVEN DOING HERE?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Starmer is (probably) about to win a historic victory for Labour in the UK, so I don't think that analogy helps the case for incumbency (neither does the presence of Rishi Sunak as the actual incumbent). The situation facing Biden, Harris, and the Democratic leadership is literally "damned if you do, damned if you don't" where every possible option is a risk-fraught minefield that could very well be impossible to navigate electorally. Anyone who tells you otherwise doesn't have a clue either. The way I see it is that they probably have two weeks (until just after the RNC and whatever polling data emerges from that) to finalize their course of action. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Just now, MarSolo said: TRUMP KEPT FALLING ASLEEP DURING HIS TRIAL WHAT ARE WE EVEN DOING HERE?? An illegal fake trial tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarSolo Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 The media should do a “talk about Project 2025” challenge. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 2 minutes ago, MarSolo said: The media should do a “talk about Project 2025” challenge. No. They wants it precious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 5 minutes ago, MarSolo said: The media should do a “talk about Project 2025” challenge. But think about all the clicks the reporters who don't get executed by Trump will get. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 I can’t imagine a world where Kamala beats Trump, regardless of her VP. I want to be wrong. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comet Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 19 minutes ago, MarSolo said: Wait, so I’m seeing “Biden takes naps” as a disqualifying point. Motherfuker, I take naps, they’re great! TRUMP KEPT FALLING ASLEEP DURING HIS TRIAL WHAT ARE WE EVEN DOING HERE?? Dems and Republicans are held to very different standards Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 So that NYTs poll is out, Trump +6, up 3 from pre-debate poll. "Of note given history of debate bounces and our last poll: Democrats and Republicans were essentially identically likely to respond to the survey, controlling for race. It's right in line with our average response rates by party x race for the year." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DPCyric Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 9 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: I can’t imagine a world where Kamala beats Trump, regardless of her VP. I want to be wrong. Taylor Swift has her VP she does it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Replace Joe with Jill and save a lot of rebranding Harris at the top would be fine, and I think having a younger person (read: under retirement age) would be a benefit and provide an immediate contrast with Trump that Biden can’t provide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 16 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Replace Joe with Jill and save a lot of rebranding Harris at the top would be fine, and I think having a younger person (read: under retirement age) would be a benefit and provide an immediate contrast with Trump that Biden can’t provide. 53 minutes ago, stepee said: New idea: Swap Biden’s and have Jill as president and Joe as first man ahem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Just now, stepee said: ahem I was riffing off of that. Sorry I didn’t quote! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 33 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said: controlling for race. It's right in line with our average response rates by party x race for the year." wat? Gerrymandering the polls? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Maybe they're prepping us for race controls when their candidate Trump wins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Off to the gym, I gotta raise my stamina to survive the camps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 1 minute ago, SuperSpreader said: Off to the gym, I gotta raise my stamina to survive the camps Change your icon brotha. I have had enough of her already. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Just now, Best said: Change your icon brotha. I have had enough of her already. We need a hero 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 17 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: We need a hero 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 Biden is old and behaves like some old people do. I don’t believe the “get him out there and show people he’s still got it” tactic is going to work unless DNC leadership feels comfortable playing Russian roulette with every public appearance between now and Election Day. He’s going to be under the microscope and every sundowner moment is going to lead to the narrative that he’s unfit. Even his “good days” like when he was on Seth Meyers are good only when graded on the curviest of curves. So the options to me seem to be: 1) Get HOLD FAST tattooed onto your knuckles and behave accordingly, treating this as something as close to a typical campaign as possible and count on traditional tactics / perceived advantages, depending on Trump being unpopular 2) Pull the ripcord more or less immediately and strap someone to Harris that will work on some of the rougher areas 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 WSJ poll Trump +6, 80% say Biden is too old, Biden 34% approval, almost 2/3s of dems want Biden replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 5 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said: WSJ poll Trump +6, 80% say Biden is too old, Biden 34% approval, almost 2/3s of dems want Biden replaced. Biden is too old, but Trump is only 3 years younger...which is...last I checked...less than 1 term... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 It doesn't look like anyone is stopping: Boston Globe editorial board calls on Biden to end his campaign Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 I mean the president of the US struggling to speak at a debate isn't going to fade away when it was already in the countries consciousness no matter how much you want to just ignore it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 It's not that he acts like an old person. I know lots of old people, he doesn't act like them. I also know old people who have gone through dementia/cognitive decline. He acts like them. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 As for Trump (from the NYT/Siena poll)... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted July 3 Share Posted July 3 % of *Republicans* saying Biden should stay in the race, per NYT/Siena poll Pre-debate: 21% Post-debate: 28% I mean yeah if Trump was down in the polls and had a debate where he struggled to speak I would probably want him to stay too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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