Rock the Vote '24: update (09/10) - It's "Debate Night" - do yourself a favor and play a video game instead

[GeneticBlueprint]

29 minutes ago, S3xB0t said:

 

 

 

I’m curious, what do you all think charisma means? As was said, it’s an interesting academic question. Maybe Trump doesn’t have personal charisma, but he certainly has charisma. Maybe it’s “charismatic authority,” which was given to him by his supporters. This paper in Critical Sociology seems to think so. 
 

 

 

I think actual charisma goes beyond just being able to draw in rubes and people that want to use you as Trump is being used. Charisma draws in the skeptics. I don’t think there are many people who were skeptical of Trump that have been drawn to him after he opened his political mouth that aren’t using him for their own ends or aren’t complete fucking morons to begin with. 

[Best]

9 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

 

The Mayo Clinic wrote a biography on Donald Trump.  Here is a small snippet:

 

 

 

Yea. You and Greatoneshere make the same point. But I also think his age is beating him down in this election as well. You can see it in his face that he is just flat out exhausted. 

[Massdriver]

I’m not interested in debating the meaning of charisma. I always thought Trump had it, but if he doesn’t, he has something like it.

 

He is magnetic to people coming to him for truth and meaning. He has the devotion of 40% of the country. He is worshipped by many over God himself even if they don’t realize it. He is dangerous and powerful. He will likely be our next president. I know people that would die for him. 
 

Don’t underestimate him. 
 

[Nokra]

Just now, Massdriver said:

I’m not interested in debating the meaning of charisma. I always thought Trump had it, but if he doesn’t, he has something like it.

 

He is magnetic to people coming to him for truth and meaning. He has the devotion of 40% of the country. He is worshipped among many over God himself even if they don’t realize it. He is dangerous and powerful. He will likely be our next president. I know people that would die for him. 
 

Don’t underestimate him. 
 

Yeah, not to get into the weeds on definitions, but maybe it's as simple as having "confidence" (even if it's rooted in his narcissism) that draws people to him and makes him attractive. Someone with all of the answers (even if they're bullshit) does have a certain appeal. 

[Best]

Tbh, not too long ago I liked Trump because he made me laugh. This was back when I was poisoned and didn't really try to understand what really is going on. 

 

So yea, he comes off confident and humorous which many love about him. 

[Xbob42]

He's just our lovable goofball fascist!

[Greatoneshere]

31 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

He has the devotion of 40% of the country.

 

As always, I'm gonna push back on this. It's not 40% of the country. We have to stop this statistic. It's between 1/4 and 1/5 of the country's total population. Let's not outsize their popularity. That being said, the 40% that does bother to vote, who vote for him, significantly matter. I'm the last person who wants to rest on their laurels about this. But it isn't 40%, the reason I emphasize this is because it is frustrating that 30-35% of the American population that could vote, just doesn't. We could kind of use that 30% right now (turnout was like 65% last election, highest it's been in a long time, what are those 35% who could vote but don't vote doing??).

[Massdriver]

10 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

As always, I'm gonna push back on this. It's not 40% of the country. We have to stop this statistic. It's between 1/4 and 1/5 of the country's total population. Let's not outsize their popularity. That being said, the 40% that does bother to vote, who vote for him, significantly matter. I'm the last person who wants to rest on their laurels about this. But it isn't 40%, the reason I emphasize this is because it is frustrating that 30-35% of the American population that could vote, just doesn't. We could kind of use that 30% right now (turnout was like 65% last election, highest it's been in a long time, what are those 35% who could vote but don't vote doing??).

That’s a fair point. I should have been more clear that he has the devotion of 40% of the voting public. But I agree with you that we could certainly use non voting persons now!

 

Edit: All my other points remain. I am tired of people underestimating Trump.

[Greatoneshere]

11 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

That’s a fair point. I should have been more clear that he has the devotion of 40% of the voting public. But I agree with you that we could certainly use non voting persons now!

 

Edit: All my other points remain. I am tired of people underestimating Trump.

 

I agree with all of this - I'm probably being pedantic on this point but I'm not giving Trump bigger crowd sizes.  But seriously, 30-35% of people who can vote simply don't; I judge them almost as harshly as the 40% who do vote for Trump because with this much at stake, as Americans, we have a duty to prevent this and they're just, what, watching concepts of a plan without worry?

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

35 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

I’m not interested in debating the meaning of charisma. I always thought Trump had it, but if he doesn’t, he has something like it.

 

He is magnetic to people coming to him for truth and meaning. He has the devotion of 40% of the country. He is worshipped by many over God himself even if they don’t realize it. He is dangerous and powerful. He will likely be our next president. I know people that would die for him. 
 

Don’t underestimate him. 
 

Branching off of this, if one were to accept the premise Trump is indeed sui generis and irreplaceable the way @Greatoneshere argues he is, I would honestly wonder whether him losing this election is enough.

 

I expect there will probably be a recession in the next president's term.  If he loses, will he just keep campaigning, in the hopes that he can win a fourth round by hanging a bum economy on Harris?  If the GOP cannot find a substitute for him, and the party remains MAGA-fied, will it be willing to keep playing along?

 

I've been subscribing to the 'one more loss will break the spell' school of thought, but when even shenanigans like the crap he pulled at Arlington cemetery fail move the needle, I really have no idea...

[GeneticBlueprint]

1 minute ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

Branching off of this, if one were to accept the premise Trump is indeed sui generis and irreplaceable the way @Greatoneshere argues he is, I would honestly wonder whether him losing this election is enough.

 

I expect there will probably be a recession in the next president's term.  If he loses, will he just keep campaigning, in the hopes that he can win a fourth round by hanging a bum economy on Harris?  If the GOP cannot find a substitute for him, and the party remains MAGA-fied, will it be willing to keep playing along?

 

I've been subscribing to the 'one more loss will break the spell' school of thought, but when even shenanigans like the crap he pulled at Arlington cemetery fail move the needle, I really have no idea...

He will absolutely run again if for no other reason than to try to say “election interference” with all of his court cases.

[Greatoneshere]

1 minute ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

Branching off of this, if one were to accept the premise Trump is indeed sui generis and irreplaceable the way @Greatoneshere argues he is, I would honestly wonder whether him losing this election is enough.

 

I expect there will probably be a recession in the next president's term.  If he loses, will he just keep campaigning, in the hopes that he can win a fourth round by hanging a bum economy on Harris?  If the GOP cannot find a substitute for him, and the party remains MAGA-fied, will it be willing to keep playing along?

 

I've been subscribing to the 'one more loss will break the spell' school of thought, but when even shenanigans like the crap he pulled at Arlington cemetery fail move the needle, I really have no idea...

 

This presumes that Trump has enough in him to run yet another campaign in 2028. I grant that I believed he wouldn't run one in 2024, thinking he'd permanently give up after 2020. So yes, I entirely agree with your premise that if he runs again in 2028, that's a horse of a different color. But I don't think he will run again in 2028, hence why I believe this will "break the spell". I was wrong about him and 2024, but look at Biden. That crossover into your 80's just undoes you. And he's facing so many life consequences that even an NPD sufferer like him won't have the stamina for yet another run. 

 

But it sounds like you agree that if he doesn't run again, the GOP are out of candidates that can win for the foreseeable future.

[Greatoneshere]

2 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

He will absolutely run again if for no other reason than to try to say “election interference” with all of his court cases.

 

See the post above this one but he will be very old when this becomes relevant, hence my premise in the first place.

[Xbob42]

3 minutes ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

Branching off of this, if one were to accept the premise Trump is indeed sui generis and irreplaceable the way @Greatoneshere argues he is, I would honestly wonder whether him losing this election is enough.

 

I expect there will probably be a recession in the next president's term.  If he loses, will he just keep campaigning, in the hopes that he can win a fourth round by hanging a bum economy on Harris?  If the GOP cannot find a substitute for him, and the party remains MAGA-fied, will it be willing to keep playing along?

 

I've been subscribing to the 'one more loss will break the spell' school of thought, but when even shenanigans like the crap he pulled at Arlington cemetery fail move the needle, I really have no idea...

He's at an age where he could randomly drop dead just from his body failing, and time isn't doing any favors for his "charisma," as it is. Give it another four years and he'll be even less coherent... Hell, depending on the level of deterioration, running Trump over and over again could be the biggest gift to the dems in decades.

[Massdriver]

22 minutes ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

Branching off of this, if one were to accept the premise Trump is indeed sui generis and irreplaceable the way @Greatoneshere argues he is, I would honestly wonder whether him losing this election is enough.

 

I expect there will probably be a recession in the next president's term.  If he loses, will he just keep campaigning, in the hopes that he can win a fourth round by hanging a bum economy on Harris?  If the GOP cannot find a substitute for him, and the party remains MAGA-fied, will it be willing to keep playing along?

 

I've been subscribing to the 'one more loss will break the spell' school of thought, but when even shenanigans like the crap he pulled at Arlington cemetery fail move the needle, I really have no idea...

If he’s capable of running and alive, he will run again. I’m skeptical just because he will be in his 80s. 

[Greatoneshere]

I'm really surprised some of you guys think he'll run in 2028. Trump is barely coherent as is, look at Biden. Are we really expecting anything other than complete nosedive in the next four years? Yeah, of course, if Trump runs in 2028 then all bets are off, MAGA be crazy.

 

My initial premise was if there is no Trump in 2028, we are safe from fascism for at least 8 years, until that 2032 electoral college calendar comes to life.  

[thewhyteboar]

Trump will keep running until he dies. 
 

…So hopefully he stops running soon. 

[Xbob42]

7 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

I'm really surprised some of you guys think he'll run in 2028. Trump is barely coherent as is, look at Biden. Are we really expecting anything other than complete nosedive in the next four years? Yeah, of course, if Trump runs in 2028 then all bets are off, MAGA be crazy.

 

My initial premise was if there is no Trump in 2028, we are safe from fascism for at least 8 years, until that 2032 electoral college calendar comes to life.  

We really gotta focus on undoing the electoral college bullshit and telling ourselves that it's somehow impossible. If Trump has proved anything to anyone, let it be that nothing's off the table.

This helpless, passive attitude of "they can do anything they want, but if we want to try something it's impossible" is frankly a pathetic mindset that needs to be purged.

[S3xB0t]

6 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

I'm really surprised some of you guys think he'll run in 2028. Trump is barely coherent as is, look at Biden. Are we really expecting anything other than complete nosedive in the next four years?

He should be dead already. He’s fat as shit, full of chemicals, and has definitely used more than his fair share of stimulants.

[Bacon]

1 minute ago, S3xB0t said:

He’s fat as shit, full of chemicals

but enough about me

[Greatoneshere]

7 minutes ago, thewhyteboar said:

Trump will keep running until he dies. 
 

…So hopefully he stops running soon. 

 

3 minutes ago, S3xB0t said:

He should be dead already. He’s fat as shit, full of chemicals, and has definitely used more than his fair share of stimulants.

 

I don't disagree, but a 2028 Trump that the GOP genuinely runs after losing so many elections prior to that? It's gonna be a bad look. But sure, that's a wild card I'm not accounting for in my premise. Again, if Trump doesn't run in 2028, who does the GOP have? No one, agreed?  

 

5 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

We really gotta focus on undoing the electoral college bullshit and telling ourselves that it's somehow impossible. If Trump has proved anything to anyone, let it be that nothing's off the table.

 

I'm all for undoing the electoral college. Please present to me a legitimately real way to make that happening. The problem is the bar is too high. A Democrat who is willing to shake things up might (Tim Walz has always been more progressive than he lets on) but in terms of practical purposes it is impossible. Do you know something we don't?

[Xbob42]

5 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

I'm all for undoing the electoral college. Please present to me a legitimately real way to make that happening. The problem is the bar is too high. A Democrat who is willing to shake things up might (Tim Walz has always been more progressive than he lets on) but in terms of practical purposes it is impossible. Do you know something we don't?

Stack the Supreme Court in our favor (teehee the Supreme Court is now three times as large, whoopsie), say "this is how it's done now," have the Supreme Court say "yup" and wow, we did it! Who's gonna fucking stop you at that point?

[legend]

2 hours ago, S3xB0t said:

 

 

 

I’m curious, what do you all think charisma means? As was said, it’s an interesting academic question. Maybe Trump doesn’t have personal charisma, but he certainly has charisma. Maybe it’s “charismatic authority,” which was given to him by his supporters. This paper in Critical Sociology seems to think so. 
 

 

 

 

What I mean by it is I'd typically associate "charisma" with the ability to make large portions of the population like you to the point of devotion, particularly when personally interacting with them. Trump not only repulses huge swaths of the population, even many of his supporters will concede he's unlikable.

 

It's probably not worth getting hung up one whether what Trump is counts as charismatic as much as it's worth pointing out that reaction he gets form people he interacts with is quite different from the kind of reaction other people we conventionally call charismatic get.

 

Given that, the point I'm raising is it's an interesting question to understand why he gets support from a group despite not actually being likeable and even often repulsive to people.

[S3xB0t]

4 minutes ago, legend said:

Given that, the point I'm raising is it's an interesting question to understand why he gets support from a group despite not actually being likeable and even often repulsive to people.

I agree. I’m sure sociologists will study Trump’s appeal and lack thereof for a long time. The paper I linked earlier is a take on that question. I think it makes sense. He found causes that inspire strong emotion and ran with them. 

[Signifyin(g)Monkey]

57 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

I'm really surprised some of you guys think he'll run in 2028. Trump is barely coherent as is, look at Biden. Are we really expecting anything other than complete nosedive in the next four years? Yeah, of course, if Trump runs in 2028 then all bets are off, MAGA be crazy.

 

My initial premise was if there is no Trump in 2028, we are safe from fascism for at least 8 years, until that 2032 electoral college calendar comes to life.  

Oh no doubt he'll definitely get worse.  But he's even more unhinged and incoherent now than he was in 2020, and he's polling better than he's ever polled.  And the incentives for him to run (and use his political candidacy to cast his legal troubles as 'political') will be there.

 

I guess my hope is that the old center-right is still lurking somewhere in the GOP--if not in Washington, at least amongst the masses--and if Trumpism gets associated with losing elections, then the Trumpist madness will dissipate or at least die down, and a more moderate, 'Reagan Democrat'-ish consensus will reassert itself in the party.

 

Put another way, I'm hoping another Trump loss pushes the GOP in the direction of Nikki Haley, rather than further down the MAGA rabbit hole.  But that might be hopium, and if you're right about Trump's singular nature, then another Trump loss might simply redouble Trump's strength within the party instead.

 

I don't know.  Whatever the case may be, clearly the best outcome is for the guy to eat one too many cheeseburgers and have his black heart implode while watching himself on TV at Mar-a-Lago. 

 

 

[5timechamp]

45 minutes ago, S3xB0t said:

I agree. I’m sure sociologists will study Trump’s appeal and lack thereof for a long time. The paper I linked earlier is a take on that question. I think it makes sense. He found causes that inspire strong emotion and ran with them. 

 

Kind of like hes just an Avatar that embodies and voices some folks’ feelings and ideas… like hate, racism, bigotry etc etc… and as someone said, what sets him apart is that he deflects even when told how shitty he is, that is the “strength” that his base sees, the doubling down when others would yield…he is unapologetic in his BS and is helped by the mass media giving him a pass.. In essence its not so much “Trump” himself but what he embodies.. (admittedly there are also enough folks that buy into the illusion of him knowing business etc etc)… its a good combo.. his fame/name got him in the door… the ideals he embodies gave life to the cult that keeps him there.

[finaljedi]

47 minutes ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

Oh no doubt he'll definitely get worse.  But he's even more unhinged and incoherent now than he was in 2020, and he's polling better than he's ever polled.  And the incentives for him to run (and use his political candidacy to cast his legal troubles as 'political') will be there.

 

I guess my hope is that the old center-right is still lurking somewhere in the GOP--if not in Washington, at least amongst the masses--and if Trumpism gets associated with losing elections, then the Trumpist madness will dissipate or at least die down, and a more moderate, 'Reagan Democrat'-ish consensus will reassert itself in the party.

 

Put another way, I'm hoping another Trump loss pushes the GOP in the direction of Nikki Haley, rather than further down the MAGA rabbit hole.  But that might be hopium, and if you're right about Trump's singular nature, then another Trump loss might simply redouble Trump's strength within the party instead.

 

I don't know.  Whatever the case may be, clearly the best outcome is for the guy to eat one too many cheeseburgers and have his black heart implode while watching himself on TV at Mar-a-Lago. 

 

 

 

It can go either way.  After Romney they regretted not pushing further right.  But 8 years of the only wins coming from their court appointments, and one of those is hurting them politically by putting them on the unpopular side of a hot button issue has gotta ring some bells in someone.

[Jason]

BAD NEWS FOR KAMALA 

 

Pope Says Both Trump and Harris Are ‘Against Life’ https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/13/world/europe/pope-us-election-abortion-immigration.html?smid=nytcore-android-share

[TheBladeRoden]

They like that he gets away with the shit that he says, and they also help him get away with the shit that he says. What a cycle.

 

Also https://x.com/JDVance/status/1834785910635794774

 

 

Quote

"They are here legally," they tell us. Yes, they are here legally because Kamala Harris granted Temporary Protective Status to 100,000 Haitians. But Kamala Harris waving the magic amnesty wand is not a justification for the presence of 20,000 newcomers in Springfield. It is an indictment of her despicable open border.

 

Deportation camps: Not just for illegals for long.

[Jason]

rightwing pulse check (top keck):

 

 

Kamala Harris sticks with ABC for first solo interview since slanted...

NYPOST.COM

---

Vice President Kamala Harris sat down with an ABC affiliate for her first solo interview Friday, choosing the same network that got her through this week's slanted presidential debate.

 

[Jason]

"Kamala Harris sticks with ABC for first solo interview since slanted debate — and still serves up word salad“

[ihavebigtitties]

Trump 100% has charisma and I don’t know why this is even in question. Just compare him with J.D. Vance. What’s the major difference between them? Charisma.

 

Quote

cha·ris·ma

noun

1. 

compelling attractiveness or charm that can inspire devotion in others.

There is nothing in that definition about being universally loved. Even those who hate him find him oddly compelling. No politician has been meme’d as much as him.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

2 hours ago, thewhyteboar said:

Trump will keep running until he dies. 
 

…So hopefully he stops running soon. 

I want him to live to see himself lose this election. I then want him to live long enough to see the party run from him. Everyone disavow him. He loses court case after court case. When he is broke, alone, and nearly forgotten, then he can “stop running”. 

[Air_Delivery]

[Keyser_Soze]

8 hours ago, Nokra said:

Yeah, once you see how self-centered he is, it's impossible to stop seeing it. Classic narcissistic behavior; nothing is ever his fault, he's the best, etc.