chakoo Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 5 minutes ago, finaljedi said: The Republicans heavily pre-empted this debate with accusations that the moderators will have severe anti-Trump bias, it wouldn't surprise me if they were told to not go too hard at him. Who cares really about what they pre-empted with, they did nothing at all last night. Trump could have called one of their mothers a prostitute and they would have responded with "Thank you Mr. President." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firewithin Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 38 minutes ago, Reputator said: Regardless of what the Democrats' response is, I think last night is a turning point in this race. I don't see a way for us to win. At this point the focus of the entire party should be on down-ballad races. Keep as many congressional seats as possible, push funding for as many state and local elections as you can muster, and try to turn the government blue in any way, shape, or form possible. Make it impossible for Trump to do much of anything while in office, and get ready for a hellish four years of fighting in the courts. hes going to get his immunity and just have them all executed anyway Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblfilms Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Fact-checking in the middle of a debate is the job of the debate opponents. That Biden couldn’t challenge nearly any of the obviously false claims of Trump with anything more than indignation is part of the problem. There are people on this board who would have, on the fly, had more substantive responses and challenges to Trump. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 49 minutes ago, chakoo said: I'm curious today to see what gets reported in the media and how much shit cleaning up is done to polish last night's turd of a debate. I will say I am concerned with the initial aftermath that all the focus was on Biden and not how much Trump was lying and not able to respond to questions. I will agree that Biden last night completely screwed up. Yet with that said he could at least answer questions asked of him and respond to falsehoods made. Trump on the other hand didn't answer questions when asked and if he ever did respond it was responding to a question that was asked 1/2 questions ago. The man lied through his teeth and rambled about unrelated crap. I know you're not saying their performance was the same but that was not a mentally sound man. Yes. Biden was very good with stating facts and he absolutely answered questions no matter how badly he struggled. I'm not fully invested in politics like you guys are so I cannot comment whether this is as big of a deal for dems as the media is saying. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 When one of the Democratic Party's rising stars puts it this way... Quote Mika Brzezinski: "He couldn't finish a thought, he couldn't land an answer, and his closing thoughts were even botched. ... There are people who are going, 'What the hell is going on?'" Gov. Josh Shapiro: "Hard for me to know if you're talking about Joe Biden or Donald Trump." 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputator Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Even MSNBC turned on him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 14 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Fact-checking in the middle of a debate is the job of the debate opponents. That Biden couldn’t challenge nearly any of the obviously false claims of Trump with anything more than indignation is part of the problem. There are people on this board who would have, on the fly, had more substantive responses and challenges to Trump. Biden doesn't even need to do any serious fact checking against Trump. It would have been easier for him to just say things that get under his skin and have him go off message. As an example, Trump doesn't have the self control to not cost himself a few million in defamation money. It would have been so easy to provoke him on national television and just flood the following days with news about how Trump is getting sued for further defaming the woman he raped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 The primary problem with real-time fact-checking of Trump by Biden, the moderators, or any one of us is that Trump has mastered the art of the Gish gallop to such a degree that he floods the zone completely and any attempt to counterpunch simply eats away valuable time that should otherwise be devoted to getting your point across. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Yea, so "fact checking" isn't exactly what I'm asking for. It's this: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ort Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 I'm normalizing demanding that Biden steps aside. Joe Biden needs to step aside. This election is too important to leave it in the hands of a person who can't even communicate simple ideas. Joe Biden looks and sounds 8,000 years old. It's painful to watch. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signifyin(g)Monkey Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 6 minutes ago, ort said: I'm normalizing demanding that Biden steps aside. Joe Biden needs to step aside. This election is too important to leave it in the hands of a person who can't even communicate simple ideas. Joe Biden looks and sounds 8,000 years old. It's painful to watch. I'm gaming out the 'replace Biden' scenarios in my head and the only remotely feasible one I can envision is that Biden steps down and Kamala becomes president--like, soon. The problem is that Kamala actually polls worse than Biden. So it's not even clear you'd improve your chances. Best case scenario, after stepping into the presidency, she surprises everyone and turns out to be a better speaker and politicker than previously thought--and then campaigns like hell until November on her and Biden's accomplishments. Passing her up for someone else at a brokered convention will alienate two of the Dems' most important voting blocs--African Americans and women. Plus brokered conventions have never produced a winning nominee in the past 100 years. It'll just make the party look even weaker and in greater disarray than it already looks, and then whatever rando comes out the other end will have no name recognition and will be unable to campaign on Biden's considerable accomplishments because...well, they had nothing to do with them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 However I feel about Biden beating Trump after the debate last night, I would cut those odds down by 50-75% for Kamala to beat Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osxmatt Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 I’ll be curious if Democrats start to borrow a talking point from Republicans the past 8 years, which is presidential administrations. You heard that a lot from Republicans during 2016-2020, that the presidency is larger than any one person. It’s an entire administration of advisors and career officials, and even people that can essentially be an underhanded check on the president’s power or policy agenda. The obvious difference is Republicans made that argument to make people feel better about their candidate being a fucking lunatic and a Nazi. Democrats would be making that argument because their candidate is old and it feels like he might be ready for a home. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ort Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 I understand the thinking behind choosing the very safe and boring Biden option in 2020... but they knew at the time that his age would be an even bigger problem in 4 years. They were willing to take that risk and put all their chips in to remove Trump. At this point I feel like picking Kamala was the biggest mistake. If they had a stronger VP right now, you could put them more in the spotlight. It would be easier for Biden to step down or say they are more of a team, blah blah blah... Kamala wasn't popular in the primary, no one really liked her. Biden pre-announcing he would only choose a black woman as his VP was also a bad move. That limited him to like what, 3 or 4 possible legitimate choices? He really painted himself into a corner. It was a bad decision. America really hates female politicians. They just do. Kamala just doesn't have the chutzpa to overcome all that bias. She did so poorly in the primary I have no idea why they went with her. She's not very likable or relatable. She just doesn't have the "it" factor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Of course, it's just our "luck" that Biden is doing a rally in North Carolina right now and apparently he's sounding just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Of course, it's just our "luck" that Biden is doing a rally in North Carolina right now and apparently he's sounding just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 GUYS BIDEN IS JUST PULLING AN OBAMA v ROMNEY AND LULLING TRUMP INTO A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY FOR DEBATE NUMBER TWO ... ... ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputator Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 5 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Of course, it's just our "luck" that Biden is doing a rally in North Carolina right now and apparently he's sounding just fine. Wow he sure got over that cold quick! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 3 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: GUYS BIDEN IS JUST PULLING AN OBAMA v ROMNEY AND LULLING TRUMP INTO A FALSE SENSE OF SECURITY FOR DEBATE NUMBER TWO ... ... ... There is precedent for this. But yeah ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finaljedi Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 I think they just waited too fucking long, I said it a few pages ago, they haven't nurtured a deep bench like the GOP has. If Joe does manage to squeak this one and win, again because Trump is such a sack of shit that people vote against him, I think he needs to step down a year or so into his second term. Firstly because he's just too old, and a distant second would be seeing the right wing goofy brigade deal with a President Kamala. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ort Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 I'm not sure I agree with the bench thing. I think if you lined up the top 10 democrat contenders and the top 10 GOP, the dems would wipe the floor with them. The most recent Republican primary was a total shit show. The GOP is a party of insane people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cusideabelincoln Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 The mental logistics for the average conservative just makes me sad Quote The debate was set up by the democrats on purpose so that when they announce who they really want to run for president people will be ok with that because of Bidens condition. The only problem I have with that is they think we’re so stupid we wouldn’t notice. I’m so tired of the political smoke and mirrors and them thinking the American people are ignorant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Ratings were down 34% for this debate v 2020, 47.9mil viewers v 73.13mil It was probably mostly Republicans and people who hate themselves like the ppl who watched ITT 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ort Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 The last debate happened during the pandemic, so it was a much more dire time and everyone was stuck at home with nothing else to do. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioandsonic Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Can't wait for Trump to win now... Might as well rename this country to Dumbfuckistan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 6 minutes ago, marioandsonic said: Can't wait for Trump to win now... Might as well rename this country to Dumbfuckistan. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C8xKrKZBhWv/?igsh=bXpyanNsM2Z6cHd0 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 If Biden steps aside, it can't be a candidate imposed on the voters by a couple party elite, not after they're pissed about Biden being imposed on them. I think the closest most democratic thing we can hope for is an open contest until the convention, and the delegates, who are nobodies, pick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 I really do think people need to chill, and see how things shake out over the next few weeks, Trump dropped some whoppers last night as well, part of his hopes of winning in November was eating into Dems margins with non-white voters, and i'm not sure he did that with things like the "Black" jobs line. On the same topic a census estimate for 22-23 saw the number of whites decline by almost 500k, every state saw their white population decrease, while all other ethnic groups increased. Country is changing fast. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 On Trump's lying about crime statistics: "[Lists Donald's criminal offenses] Donald Trump is a one-man crime wave" Pretty good line ngl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 So it's true it was a hoax. He was acting feeble but is really stronk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 1 minute ago, PaladinSolo said: I really do think people need to chill, and see how things shake out over the next few weeks, Trump dropped some whoppers last night as well, part of his hopes of winning in November was eating into Dems margins with non-white voters, and i'm not sure he did that with things like the "Black" jobs line. On the same topic a census estimate for 22-23 saw the number of whites decline by almost 500k, while all other ethnic groups increased. Country is changing fast. I don't disagree that people need to chill, but it's also true that those next few weeks will be crucial and it might be too late to realistically take another path. (It probably already is) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Siebzehn Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 22 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: Ratings were down 34% for this debate v 2020, 47.9mil viewers v 73.13mil It was probably mostly Republicans and people who hate themselves like the ppl who watched ITT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ort Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 2 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said: I really do think people need to chill, and see how things shake out over the next few weeks, Trump dropped some whoppers last night as well, part of his hopes of winning in November was eating into Dems margins with non-white voters, and i'm not sure he did that with things like the "Black" jobs line. On the same topic a census estimate for 22-23 saw the number of whites decline by almost 500k, while all other ethnic groups increased. Country is changing fast. Trump sucked but he always sucks. Trump did nothing to move the needle. He said nothing outrageous enough to sway anyone. The whole world has been listening to him lie and say outlandish hateful bullshit for the last 8 years, one more night of the same isn't changing anyones mind. It's crazy that Trump was just in a debate and was really shitty in that debate... and yet no one is even talking about anything he did or said. Biden shit the bed that hard. Joe Biden is laying flat upon a 200 foot mountain of shit with a bed underneath it somewhere, that's how hard he shit the bed last night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted June 28 Share Posted June 28 I already have visible white hairs, I wonder how gray I'll be by November. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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