Rock the Vote '24: update (09/10) - It's "Debate Night" - do yourself a favor and play a video game instead

[CitizenVectron]

1 hour ago, Brick said:

In the scenario that Trump loses the popular vote, but wins the electoral college, how much do Democrats push for the electoral college to be dismantled the next time they have the White House? Why didn't Biden push for it, or was there no point because there wouldn't be enough support from the House and Senate? 

 

Nothing happens. If somehow turnout in California and NY was 95% and Harris beat Trump by 15% in the national vote (but he won EC), then he's the President. There's nothing that can be done because the interstate popular vote compact requires non-Democrat states to join...and obviously the GOP won't go for that. The US system is stuck the way it is. IMO the only actual solution is:

 

• Increase the size of the electoral college by massively increasing the size of the House of Representatives to 1,000+

 

This gives more (and proper) weight to the larger states and makes the results closer to the actual national vote. However I don't think that will ever happen, either.

[5timechamp]

2 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

I'll do you one better:

 

 

 

Can Melisandre just get to the part where Trump burns Don Jr or Ivanka at the stake already..

[PaladinSolo]

Another poll showing Harris at +4.

[outsida]

27 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

 

Nothing happens. If somehow turnout in California and NY was 95% and Harris beat Trump by 15% in the national vote (but he won EC), then he's the President. There's nothing that can be done because the interstate popular vote compact requires non-Democrat states to join...and obviously the GOP won't go for that. The US system is stuck the way it is. IMO the only actual solution is:

 

• Increase the size of the electoral college by massively increasing the size of the House of Representatives to 1,000+

 

This gives more (and proper) weight to the larger states and makes the results closer to the actual national vote. However I don't think that will ever happen, either.

Increasing the House of Representatives is the best and most realistic option 

[Greatoneshere]

3 hours ago, Reputator said:

 

It won't matter in 2032, because...

 

 

 

 

True, but as I understand it aren't there ways to avoid that fate? Un-gerrymander the states that are currently gerry-mandered, etc. I'm not saying that's going to happen, but is this an inevitability? Either way, a lot can happen in eight years. 

 

2 hours ago, Brick said:

In the scenario that Trump loses the popular vote, but wins the electoral college, how much do Democrats push for the electoral college to be dismantled the next time they have the White House? Why didn't Biden push for it, or was there no point because there wouldn't be enough support from the House and Senate? 

 

They can't even push to end the filibuster in the Senate, so ending the EC is essentially never happening. It should be dismantled but the Republicans rely on things like this to win so they won't do the right thing.

 

1 hour ago, 5timechamp said:

I keep wondering about that… the “celeb, cult of personality” has worked for the GOP twice now with Trump and Reagan… I am curious to see who we are unknowingly building up as a brand who will turn to political and go insane…. Musk has some branding and Bizarro/Luthor wealthy sleaze energy building up… buy its always someone on the periphery……… i suppose Kanye checks off some GOP boxes lol 

 

I think saying Reagan has a cult of personality in any way like Trump did is a bit much. I see the similarities but a Reagan candidate now would probably be hated by the GOP. The party has changed so much into the party of Trump that any Republicans left who don't want to be a part of it aren't or are retiring, etc. Any new cult of personality has to be like Trump or similar to him, nothing else (not even being like Reagan) will work. Perhaps a charismatic grifter shows up, or a rare likeable fascist (which does happen) but I don't see one popping up any time soon. Like Elon Musk and Kanye West aren't real people in the sense that if they ran they'd do well. But never underestimate MAGA.

[S3xB0t]

5 hours ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said:

And that portends a huge problem that might very well survive Trump, whether he wins again or not.  It kind of implies a darker interpretation of Kamala's "we're not going back" mantra.

 

4 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I don't know that this is going to happen because Trump is a unique cult of personality - who do you see filling in the void? Republicans have nothing without that cult of personality in terms of followers/voters. Trump is highly unique and not replicable.

While Trump may go away and leave a blank in the “unique personality” checkbox the underlying philosophy behind his and the GOP’s brand will not. It’s something that has been festering in American society for decades now. Trump is just a mouthpiece. Clearly. I mean, when the man riffs it’s just the same old shit over and over. It’s only a matter of time before the GOP finds someone charismatic and smart. And they may not even have to, at least not for a while, seeing as how they accomplished their goal of stacking the Supreme Court with conservative justices. I see the “plan” as remaining more or less constant since the advent of Reaganism.

 

I could be entirely wrong, of course, but I am convinced that the GOP isn’t done with their ultra-conservative agenda. Even if they are, it’s been nearly a decade of Trump’s national political presence. It’s going to take a hit (lol, bit) to undo that.

[silentbob]

 

anyone see this video before of drowning out L.L. 

[SuperSpreader]

3 minutes ago, silentbob said:

 

anyone see this video before of drowning out L.L. 

omg

[Greatoneshere]

12 minutes ago, S3xB0t said:

While Trump may go away and leave a blank in the “unique personality” checkbox the underlying philosophy behind his and the GOP’s brand will not. It’s something that has been festering in American society for decades now. Trump is just a mouthpiece. Clearly. I mean, when the man riffs it’s just the same old shit over and over. It’s only a matter of time before the GOP finds someone charismatic and smart. And they may not even have to, at least not for a while, seeing as how they accomplished their goal of stacking the Supreme Court with conservative justices. I see the “plan” as remaining more or less constant since the advent of Reaganism.

 

I could be entirely wrong, of course, but I am convinced that the GOP isn’t done with their ultra-conservative agenda. Even if they are, it’s been nearly a decade of Trump’s national political presence. It’s going to take a hit to undo that.

 

I mean, if you're right, where are they? If it's a career politician, they can't suddenly show up out of nowhere, and the current stable of Trump imitators have all been soundly rejected at the national level. Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley, Lindsay Graham, Ron DeSantis, etc. aren't winning a presidential election. If we're talking not career politicians but similar "cults of personality", unlike Teflon Don, nationally no one takes Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, Mike Johnson, etc. seriously. None of them are winning a presidential election. So where are they going to find someone charismatic and smart? Trump was neither yet it worked for him, hence evidence of just how unique he is. The reason I'm saying this is so unlikely is because it is very hard to be both charismatic and smart about racism, sexism, regressive and harmful policy positions, etc. 

 

The reason it's hard is because normally, in society, these are untenable positions with regular people. So you have to be really good at being two things at once - both for those positions but appear as if you're not for those same positions (but you secretly are, and the alt-right knows it and the left doesn't know it, not easily anyway). If you're a person who is both charismatic and smart, unless you want to grift people you just won't be an alt-right type of person. Remember, this person is charismatic and smart right? Why would they be a right winger then? So they have to find someone charismatic, smart and a grifter to put themselves into such a public position. 

 

That's why Trump is such a rare moment in history for America and why it won't be easily replicated. I know the right will absolutely try and so yeah, they may find someone who can sincerely emulate Trump (rather than insincerely like DeSantis, which is key here) but I can't currently think of anyone, can you? If not, that means it's gonna take awhile to put someone who is currently a right winger no one knows into the presidency, so we should be safe for another 8 years at least. I think the Republicans will try to go in the other direction, and pick someone moderate to appeal to people who want to go back to the Republican party. That strategy may win back some people, but I don't think those kinds of candidates can win presidencies against the Democrats anymore. 

[SuperSpreader]

You mean you can just show up to congress and start trying to influence them?... (re: the clip)

 

if only i wasn't born poor

[Greatoneshere]

1 minute ago, SuperSpreader said:

You mean you can just show up to congress and start trying to influence them?... (re: the clip)

 

You don't even need a plan, just concepts of a plan and they let you do it.

[Jason]

IIRC he can't sell if the price goes below a certain threshold. And it's been tanking ahead of the expectation of him dumping his shares next week. 

 

[Reputator]

Here's a clip she posted of her local news interview

 

EDIT: actually two clips

 

 

[marioandsonic]

3 hours ago, Brick said:

In the scenario that Trump loses the popular vote, but wins the electoral college, how much do Democrats push for the electoral college to be dismantled the next time they have the White House? Why didn't Biden push for it, or was there no point because there wouldn't be enough support from the House and Senate? 

 

If Trump wins, there won't be a next time.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Shockingly trumps new intimate hanger on went extremely racist today in a tweet

Spoiler

 

[S3xB0t]

28 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I mean, if you're right, where are they? If it's a career politician, they can't suddenly show up out of nowhere, and the current stable of Trump imitators have all been soundly rejected at the national level. Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley, Lindsay Graham, Ron DeSantis, etc. aren't winning a presidential election. If we're talking not career politicians but similar "cults of personality", unlike Teflon Don, nationally no one takes Marjorie Taylor Green, Lauren Boebert, Matt Gaetz, Mike Johnson, etc. seriously. None of them are winning a presidential election. So where are they going to find someone charismatic and smart? Trump was neither yet it worked for him, hence evidence of just how unique he is. The reason I'm saying this is so unlikely is because it is very hard to be both charismatic and smart about racism, sexism, regressive and harmful policy positions, etc. 

 

The reason it's hard is because normally, in society, these are untenable positions with regular people. So you have to be really good at being two things at once - both for those positions but appear as if you're not for those same positions (but you secretly are, and the alt-right knows it and the left doesn't know it, not easily anyway). If you're a person who is both charismatic and smart, unless you want to grift people you just won't be an alt-right type of person. Remember, this person is charismatic and smart right? Why would they be a right winger then? So they have to find someone charismatic, smart and a grifter to put themselves into such a public position. 

 

That's why Trump is such a rare moment in history for America and why it won't be easily replicated. I know the right will absolutely try and so yeah, they may find someone who can sincerely emulate Trump (rather than insincerely like DeSantis, which is key here) but I can't currently think of anyone, can you? If not, that means it's gonna take awhile to put someone who is currently a right winger no one knows into the presidency, so we should be safe for another 8 years at least. I think the Republicans will try to go in the other direction, and pick someone moderate to appeal to people who want to go back to the Republican party. That strategy may win back some people, but I don't think those kinds of candidates can win presidencies against the Democrats anymore. 

Trump is charismatic. Or he was, at least. I think he’s lost his touch. He certainly had “it,” though. How else could he have become the center of a cult? We don’t find him charismatic because we’re at least smart enough to see through it. 
 

He wasn’t a career politician, either. A known quantity, yes. He had dabbled in politics but never seriously before 2015. 
 

My point is that it’s not over. Boebert and the rest are just tag-a-longs, lookalikes, and phonies. I am not discounting that another powerful narcissist is out there with the potential to lead. We won’t see Trumpism again if Harris wins, but something is coming. These societal divisions won’t just disappear.

[5timechamp]

3 minutes ago, S3xB0t said:

Trump is charismatic. Or he was, at least. I think he’s lost his touch. He certainly had “it,” though. How else could he have become the center of a cult? We don’t find him charismatic because we’re at least smart enough to see through it. 
 

He wasn’t a career politician, either. A known quantity, yes. He had dabbled in politics but never seriously before 2015. 
 

My point is that it’s not over. Boebert and the rest are just tag-a-longs, lookalikes, and phonies. I am not discounting that another powerful narcissist is out there with the potential to lead. We won’t see Trumpism again if Harris wins, but something is coming. These societal divisions won’t just disappear.

 

 

  I dont think Trump was “smart or charismatic” its just that the country spent decades building him up as a “succesful brand”…. think back of all the Wrestlemanias, Home Alone, Lifestyles of Rich and Famous, Fresh Prince etc etc… hes the “rich guy” made of gold who showed up and did his scenes or moment and we associated his brand with business success and class.. we associated those qualities to him… not himself… then when he did the Apprentice he “validated” his brand yet again and more recent… hes always been an idiot but we “media etc” built him up.. out of nowhere he came lol..

 

same thing was going on with Musk, anytime he talked about his tech and its ideas I thought “ well I know nothing of this, this guy must be brilliant”…, but then you hear him in anything else and you see how ass backwards and shitty he is…

 

my curiosity is where the next loon will come from… hell I was watching Fear Factor and thought… “the host Rogan is serviceable”.. I blinked and next thing you know hes somehow one of the the top podcasts

[marioandsonic]

'It just exploded': Springfield woman claims she never meant to spark false rumors about Haitians

WWW.NBCNEWS.COM

---

The woman behind an early Facebook post that helped spark baseless rumors about Haitians eating pets told NBC News that she feels for the...

 

Congrats lady, you opened up the hornet's nest

[5timechamp]

56 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I think saying Reagan has a cult of personality in any way like Trump did is a bit much. I see the similarities but a Reagan candidate now would probably be hated by the GOP. The party has changed so much into the party of Trump that any Republicans left who don't want to be a part of it aren't or are retiring, etc. Any new cult of personality has to be like Trump or similar to him, nothing else (not even being like Reagan) will work. Perhaps a charismatic grifter shows up, or a rare likeable fascist (which does happen) but I don't see one popping up any time soon. Like Elon Musk and Kanye West aren't real people in the sense that if they ran they'd do well. But never underestimate MAGA.

 

He was the first Repub President post Nixon, they needed someone likeable and who could smile on tv and be trusted… they bought it in Cali (specially his whole deny higher education to certain groups) and then he went national. Was admired because he also excelled at validating folks’ prejudices… post presidency they sure hold him up as when their party was at its best and as a national hero.. (contrary to the reality of some folks)

[GeneticBlueprint]

I don’t understand the Trump = Charismatic thing either but it’s undeniable that 70+ million people voted for him despite all of his obvious flaws. He’s got something where it counts.

 

Spoiler

It’s the racism

 

[legend]

I also don't think Trump is charismatic. It's an interesting academic question about why he is so popular despite this fact. Maybe someday we'll understand psychology enough to know why he is/was, but it is tricky.

 

My own speculation is there are a few human flaws at play here.

 

First, many people are very bad at being able to identify truth and bad arguments. This has always been true, but social media (and now, generative ML, sadly) have made this *far* harder for people when it was already hard for them.

 

Second, if you repeat a lie enough, people will believe the lie. Few people are pathological liars as much as Trump is and one of his common lies is about how great he is for... anything. There's not a single topic where Trump won't tell you he's the best. One thing he's also successful at is persuading people to join his team and repeat the same exact lies. Whether they be about how great he is, or about how awful something else is, or about anything else.  This makes it harder for people susceptible to hearing the same lie repeated enough times.

 

Third Trump does not show any signs of remorse or grief for anything. Instead, he meets any of the billion grotesque charges against him with, you guessed it, more lies. And even when something is blatant that he did it, he'll just shift the lie to "oh but I'm allowed to do that." When someone shows absolutely no guilt and lies about it being fine, people again fall into the same trap.

 

Finally, we have people's cognitive dissonance. Once someone joins his side and advocates for him, they're inclined to always believe him on any future lies. Because if they don't accept his lies, they have to acknowledge that he's a truly awful person in lots of ways. People's egos can't handle that. It's easier for them to continue to believe his lies, even if they get more obvious.

 

That's my guess at least. I'm not sure if we'll ever know why so many people fell for one of the worst and most unlikable conmen I've ever seen, but this is the best I got for now.

[Xbob42]

I always figured it was the "wow, he's a bumbling dipshit who's not very good at anything, just like me" angle that appeals to many completely unskilled and uneducated American citizens.

[Greatoneshere]

57 minutes ago, S3xB0t said:

Trump is charismatic. Or he was, at least. I think he’s lost his touch. He certainly had “it,” though. How else could he have become the center of a cult? We don’t find him charismatic because we’re at least smart enough to see through it. 
 

He wasn’t a career politician, either. A known quantity, yes. He had dabbled in politics but never seriously before 2015. 
 

My point is that it’s not over. Boebert and the rest are just tag-a-longs, lookalikes, and phonies. I am not discounting that another powerful narcissist is out there with the potential to lead. We won’t see Trumpism again if Harris wins, but something is coming. These societal divisions won’t just disappear.

 

It's not over but Trump's brand wasn't charisma, it was authenticity (which MAGA confuses for honesty). You sort of prove my point by suggesting that Trump is a rarity, someone who is neither a career politician or a tag along, so a lightning in a bottle isn't just going to appear every 4 years, that's a once in a generation (or more) situation. The societal divisions won't disappear, of course, I'm just saying that in terms of fear of Democrats losing an election to fascism, that shouldn't happen again any time soon given who we've seen could be Republican candidates on the horizon. How come you are so sure that they'll find someone, it'll be in the next decade it will work for the Republicans in some way? Elon Musk is a powerful narcissist. Kanye West is a powerful narcissist. It's not enough alone. Like you said you also have to be smart. And like I said, also a grifter. Nothing ever ends (Watchmen quote!) but I'm saying we're safe for awhile, and that's good, no? We just have to get past this election, that's why this one matters so much. After this we are past Trump and "every election is democracy or fascism" vote every four years. I miss actually forcing average American to choose policy positions (which is what matters) over a basic question like: "do you want democracy or fascism, vote here".

 

48 minutes ago, 5timechamp said:

I dont think Trump was “smart or charismatic” its just that the country spent decades building him up as a “succesful brand”…. think back of all the Wrestlemanias, Home Alone, Lifestyles of Rich and Famous, Fresh Prince etc etc… hes the “rich guy” made of gold who showed up and did his scenes or moment and we associated his brand with business success and class.. we associated those qualities to him… not himself… then when he did the Apprentice he “validated” his brand yet again and more recent… hes always been an idiot but we “media etc” built him up.. out of nowhere he came lol..

 

same thing was going on with Musk, anytime he talked about his tech and its ideas I thought “ well I know nothing of this, this guy must be brilliant”…, but then you hear him in anything else and you see how ass backwards and shitty he is…

 

21 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

I don’t understand the Trump = Charismatic thing either but it’s undeniable that 70+ million people voted for him despite all of his obvious flaws. He’s got something where it counts.

 

  Hide contents

It’s the racism

 

 

Exactly both of these. Again, it's not his charisma (maybe for some sad dudes in the Midwest and South, it's his authenticity that they stupidly perceive as honesty). "He tells it like it is" except he doesn't, he tells it like he thinks it is and he knows nothing but they don't no better, they've lived their whole lives the same way he has, being an idiot and failing upwards so yeah, that's not charisma. 

 

Barack Obama, that's charisma.

[Greatoneshere]

4 minutes ago, legend said:

I also don't think Trump is charismatic. It's an interesting academic question about why he is so popular despite this fact. Maybe someday we'll understand psychology enough to know why he is/was, but it is tricky.

 

My own speculation is there are a few human flaws at play here.

 

First, many people are very bad at being able to identify truth and bad arguments. This has always been true, but social media (and now, generative ML, sadly) have made this *far* harder for people when it was already hard for them.

 

Second, if you repeat a lie enough, people will believe the lie. Few people are pathological liars as much as Trump is and one of his common lies is about how great he is for... anything. There's not a single topic where Trump won't tell you he's the best. One thing he's also successful at is persuading people to join his team and repeat the same exact lies. Whether they be about how great he is, or about how awful something else is, or about anything else.  This makes it harder for people susceptible to hearing the same lie repeated enough times.

 

Third Trump does not show any signs of remorse or grief for anything. Instead, he meets any of the billion grotesque charges against him with, you guessed it, more lies. And even when something is blatant that he did it, he'll just shift the lie to "oh but I'm allowed to do that." When someone shows absolutely no guilt and lies about it being fine, people again fall into the same trap.

 

Finally, we have people's cognitive dissonance. Once someone joins his side and advocates for him, they're inclined to always believe him on any future lies. Because if they don't accept his lies, they have to acknowledge that he's a truly awful person in lots of ways. People's egos can't handle that. It's easier for them to continue to believe his lies, even if they get more obvious.

 

That's my guess at least. I'm not sure if we'll ever know why so many people fell for one of the worst and most unlikable conmen I've ever seen, but this is the best I got for now.

 

I said it in the post right above but you said it better - they're confusing authenticity with honesty and everything else you mentioned and here we are. But he's not charismatic or smart.

[marioandsonic]

I could never stand Trump for one simple reason: he hasn't changed one bit.  He's still the same petty, narcissistic, self-serving asswipe that he was decades ago when he was one of the most infamous billionaires alive.

[Nokra]

2 minutes ago, marioandsonic said:

I could never stand Trump for one simple reason: he hasn't changed one bit.  He's still the same petty, narcissistic, self-serving asswipe that he was decades ago when he was one of the most infamous billionaires alive.

Yeah, once you see how self-centered he is, it's impossible to stop seeing it. Classic narcissistic behavior; nothing is ever his fault, he's the best, etc. 

[S3xB0t]

57 minutes ago, 5timechamp said:

 

 

  I dont think Trump was “smart or charismatic” its just that the country spent decades building him up as a “succesful brand”…. think back of all the Wrestlemanias, Home Alone, Lifestyles of Rich and Famous, Fresh Prince etc etc… hes the “rich guy” made of gold who showed up and did his scenes or moment and we associated his brand with business success and class.. we associated those qualities to him… not himself… then when he did the Apprentice he “validated” his brand yet again and more recent… hes always been an idiot but we “media etc” built him up.. out of nowhere he came lol..

 

same thing was going on with Musk, anytime he talked about his tech and its ideas I thought “ well I know nothing of this, this guy must be brilliant”…, but then you hear him in anything else and you see how ass backwards and shitty he is…

 

my curiosity is where the next loon will come from… hell I was watching Fear Factor and thought… “the host Rogan is serviceable”.. I blinked and next thing you know hes somehow one of the the top podcasts

 

30 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

I don’t understand the Trump = Charismatic thing either but it’s undeniable that 70+ million people voted for him despite all of his obvious flaws. He’s got something where it counts.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

It’s the racism

 

 

14 minutes ago, legend said:

I also don't think Trump is charismatic. It's an interesting academic question about why he is so popular despite this fact. Maybe someday we'll understanding psychology enough to know why he is/was, but it is tricky.

 

My own speculation is there are a few human flaws at play here.

 

First, many people are very bad at being able to identify truth and bad arguments. This has always been true, but social media (and now, generative ML, sadly) have made this *far* harder for people when it was already hard for them.

 

Second, if you repeat a lie enough, people will believe the lie. Few people are pathological liars as much as Trump is and one of his common lies is about how great he is for... anything. There's not a single topic where Trump won't tell you he's the best. One thing he's also successful at is persuading people to join his team and repeat the same exact lies. Whether they be about how great he is, or about how awful something else is, or about anything else.  This makes it harder for people susceptible to hearing the same lie repeated enough times.

 

Third Trump does not show any signs of remorse or grief for anything. Instead, he meets any of the billion grotesque charges against him with, you guessed it, more lies. And even when something is blatant that he did it, he'll just shift the lie to "oh but I'm allowed to do that." When someone shows absolutely no guilt and lies about it being fine, people again fall into the same trap.

 

Finally, we have people's cognitive dissonance. Once someone joins his side and advocates for him, they're inclined to always believe him on any future lies. Because if they don't accept his lies, they have to acknowledge that he's a truly awful person in lots of ways. People's egos can't handle that. It's easier for them to continue to believe his lies, even if they get more obvious.

 

That's my guess at least. I'm not sure if we'll ever know why so many people fell for one of the worst and most unlikable conmen I've ever seen, but this is the best I got for now.

 

10 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

It's not over but Trump's brand wasn't charisma, it was authenticity (which MAGA confuses for honesty). You sort of prove my point by suggesting that Trump is a rarity, someone who is neither a career politician or a tag along, so a lightning in a bottle isn't just going to appear every 4 years, that's a once in a generation (or more) situation. The societal divisions won't disappear, of course, I'm just saying that in terms of fear of Democrats losing an election to fascism, that shouldn't happen again any time soon given who we've seen could be Republican candidates on the horizon. How come you are so sure that they'll find someone, it'll be in the next decade it will work for the Republicans in some way? Elon Musk is a powerful narcissist. Kanye West is a powerful narcissist. It's not enough alone. Like you said you also have to be smart. And like I said, also a grifter. Nothing ever ends (Watchmen quote!) but I'm saying we're safe for awhile, and that's good, no? We just have to get past this election, that's why this one matters so much. After this we are past Trump and "every election is democracy or fascism" vote every four years. I miss actually forcing average American to choose policy positions (which is what matters) over a basic question like: "do you want democracy or fascism, vote here".

 

 

 

Exactly both of these. Again, it's not his charisma (maybe for some sad dudes in the Midwest and South, it's his authenticity that they stupidly perceive as honesty. "He tells it like it is" except he doesn't, he tells it like he thinks it is and he knows nothing but they don't no better, they've lived their whole lives the same way he has, being an idiot and failing upwards so yeah, that's not charisma. 

 

Barack Obama, that's charisma.

I’m curious, what do you all think charisma means? As was said, it’s an interesting academic question. Maybe Trump doesn’t have personal charisma, but he certainly has charisma. Maybe it’s “charismatic authority,” which was given to him by his supporters. This paper in Critical Sociology seems to think so. 
 

Quote

Although charisma originates in personality, personal charisma was not Weber’s focal concern nor did he elucidate its cognitive or emotional content (Wasielewski, 1985: 5). Instead, Weber asserted the priority of social conditions and social context. These determine which constituencies award charismatic authority to a claimant. Weber insisted that leaders acquire charismatic authority only when believers grant it to them, and believers grant it only to those whom they regard as engaged on a mission of vital importance. A charismatic leader derives authority from his supposedly privileged relationship with some powerful abstraction such as God, nation, or history. When followers accept their obligation to serve that mission, then, in Weber’s (1958) view, the mission’s embodied leader becomes ‘their master’ (p. 246). That is, they obey him without question.

 

 

[Best]

It litteraly comes down to Trump being mentally ill. It's as simple as that. There is something seriously wrong with him. 

[Greatoneshere]

7 minutes ago, S3xB0t said:

I’m curious, what do you all think charisma means? As was said, it’s an interesting academic question. Maybe Trump doesn’t have personal charisma, but he certainly has charisma. Maybe it’s “charismatic authority,” which was given to him by his supporters. This paper in Critical Sociology seems to think so. 

 

I mean, we could get specific about it if you want (different types of charisma) but I think overbearing (faux) authority isn't charismatic, it's simply a different thing that can also compel people. Charisma isn't the only thing that compels or repels groups of people but I won't question that you could call it "charismatic authority" rather than "alpha male overbearing authority".

 

Even if we were to grant he was charismatic to some, he isn't also smart, which was something you said Republicans would need after someone like Trump so as to avoid a Trump situation again. So it's a moot point - Trump was a rare lightning in a bottle where being faux charismatic and faux smart worked. That sort of person will not just appear again.

[Greatoneshere]

6 minutes ago, Best said:

It litteraly comes down to Trump being mentally ill. It's as simple as that. There is something seriously wrong with him. 

 

Yeah, he's had narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) all his life and people like that can't be saved with drugs, they have to willingly go to therapy, which their mental illness, to defend itself and its ego, will never allow. My dad is just like him, as was my former boss. I've experienced a lot of male boomer NPD in my life and it is pathetic, hilarious and sadly, it really does work. Trump, my dad and my former boss are all very successful, like many NPD sufferers, which reinforces that their mental health illness is a good thing, not a bad thing. They have no idea what they are suffering from and defend themselves to the death (as we've seen from Trump).

 

NPD people are well known to say everything they do is the best. The level of hyperbole with NPD sufferers is so insane that that alone should be enough to not take them seriously but here we are.

[S3xB0t]

4 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Even if we were to grant he was charismatic to some, he isn't also smart, which was something you said Republicans would need after someone like Trump so as to avoid a Trump situation again. So it's a moot point - Trump was a rare lightning in a bottle where being faux charismatic and faux smart worked. That sort of person will not just appear again.

Yeah, definitely not smart, and definitely helped along by some stupid combination of money and luck.

 

I dunno, man. I just have a feeling about it. I guess it’s going to be something I can’t defend. I’d like to be wrong!

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

He also wants to hurt the people they hate

[Greatoneshere]

Just now, S3xB0t said:

Yeah, definitely not smart, and definitely helped along by some stupid combination of money and luck.

 

I dunno, man. I just have a feeling about it. I guess it’s going to be something I can’t defend. I’d like to be wrong!

 

It's just, we've never had anyone quite like him before or since. And he changed the party. I can't see Republicans ever winning again with someone like John McCain or Mitt Romney. It has to be another Trump or they go bust, and there isn't another Trump (we know of) waiting in the wings . . . ergo, they go bust. You're worried about some unknown wild card that we can't name who doesn't currently exist. I mean, sure, of course, anyone could come out of the woodwork, but my predictions for 2028 and 2032 are based on what we know, not on unknown factors no one could account for except doom saying.  

[mclumber1]

19 minutes ago, Best said:

It litteraly comes down to Trump being mentally ill. It's as simple as that. There is something seriously wrong with him. 

 

The Mayo Clinic wrote a biography on Donald Trump.  Here is a small snippet:

 

Quote

Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental health condition in which people have an unreasonably high sense of their own importance. They need and seek too much attention and want people to admire them. People with this disorder may lack the ability to understand or care about the feelings of others. But behind this mask of extreme confidence, they are not sure of their self-worth and are easily upset by the slightest criticism.

 

[S3xB0t]

9 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

It's just, we've never had anyone quite like him before or since. And he changed the party. I can't see Republicans ever winning again with someone like John McCain or Mitt Romney. It has to be another Trump or they go bust, and there isn't another Trump (we know of) waiting in the wings . . . ergo, they go bust. You're worried about some unknown wild card that we can't name who doesn't currently exist. I mean, sure, of course, anyone could come out of the woodwork, but my predictions for 2028 and 2032 are based on what we know, not on unknown factors no one could account for except doom saying.  

What we know is that even this election isn’t a sure thing. Until Dems are passing policy and leading by double digits I’ll trust my instincts!