AbsolutSurgen Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 I went down a rabbit hole last night. Example from what I saw of Japanese pointing out the inaccuracies in this game. I'm not Japanese, nor do I speak Japanese -- so this could all be wrong, but I saw this kind of stuff over and over. YMMV 1) This room is impossibly tall for a Japanese building -- seeming more like Western architecture than Japanese and was likened to a "high school dojo" 2) The flooring is made to tatami-esque mats, but are not tatami mats. (Again I don't know enough on the topic, but lots of the stuff I saw ridiculed this floor as an example of westerners not understanding Japanese) 3) They had an aide on the same level as Nobunaga (apparently a big etiquette issue) 4) The men were sitting on the borders of tatami mats, which is apparently very bad manners in Japan 5) Nobunaga's family crest is shown upside down on Oda Nobunaga's chest 6) They have their hair styled in a non-period way. The top-knot was apparently worn in the Edo period, not the Sengoku period era of the game 7) The generals were sitting "seiza-style", which is also non-period, it started in the Tokugawa period. They should have been sitting cross-legged. Lots of other problems in the trailers were highlighted as "not showing our culture properly" included having Yosuke riding under a Torii gate as Yasuke entered the village (Torii gates are only used for the entrance of shrines), upside down religious symbols (how would westerner's react if a Japanese game showed an upside down cross?), saying they were burning incense in an inappropriate way, showing things that would never be together (because they are seasonal), etc. There were also bad reactions to using Chinese subtitles on the Japanese-language trailer release rather than Japanese subtitles (I heard lots of don't they know the difference between Chinese and Japanese people?), stealing the image of the flag of a local historical-reenactment club as a real clan flag, and lots of people suggesting they were using non-Japanese (but Asian) imagery, using a copy of a Katana from the One Piece Manga in their AC:Shadows booth in Paris, etc. [Given the relations between the Japanese/Chinese, western companies really have to tread carefully here.] From the top rated comment on X for the Japanese apology announcement (X translation) Quote I think the story about Yasuke should just be considered "fiction based on Yasuke." The issue of historical retelling is no longer a UBI issue but a Lockley issue. However, Yasuke is no longer the problem. The plagiarism of materials from manga, organizations, and cultural heritage sites, the misinterpretation of Japanese history, and the misinterpretation of Japanese as Chinese, among other things, show disregard for Japan. The problem is these ... I apologize for comparing it to other games, but although Ghost of Tsushima is fiction and some historical revisions are made, it does have a definite respect for Japanese culture. The camerawork was reminiscent of Kurosawa's films, the placement of animals that do not actually live on Tsushima, the equipment used was from the Sengoku period rather than the Kamakura period, and the villain, the Mongolian general, was a fictional character. In order to make it a more entertaining work, it was clearly stated that it was fiction, and it was elevated to the appeal of a game. I'm sorry, but the advertising for this film doesn't seem to show the same respect for Japanese culture as Tsushima. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 i’m so sorry you went through all of that 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said: I went down a rabbit hole last night. Example from what I saw of Japanese pointing out the inaccuracies in this game. I'm not Japanese, nor do I speak Japanese -- so this could all be wrong, but I saw this kind of stuff over and over. YMMV 1) This room is impossibly tall for a Japanese building -- seeming more like Western architecture than Japanese and was likened to a "high school dojo" 2) The flooring is made to tatami-esque mats, but are not tatami mats. (Again I don't know enough on the topic, but lots of the stuff I saw ridiculed this floor as an example of westerners not understanding Japanese) 3) They had an aide on the same level as Nobunaga (apparently a big etiquette issue) 4) The men were sitting on the borders of tatami mats, which is apparently very bad manners in Japan 5) Nobunaga's family crest is shown upside down on Oda Nobunaga's chest 6) They have their hair styled in a non-period way. The top-knot was apparently worn in the Edo period, not the Sengoku period era of the game 7) The generals were sitting "seiza-style", which is also non-period, it started in the Tokugawa period. They should have been sitting cross-legged. Lots of other problems in the trailers were highlighted as "not showing our culture properly" included having Yosuke riding under a Torii gate as Yasuke entered the village (Torii gates are only used for the entrance of shrines), upside down religious symbols (how would westerner's react if a Japanese game showed an upside down cross?), saying they were burning incense in an inappropriate way, showing things that would never be together (because they are seasonal), etc. There were also bad reactions to using Chinese subtitles on the Japanese-language trailer release rather than Japanese subtitles (I heard lots of don't they know the difference between Chinese and Japanese people?), stealing the image of the flag of a local historical-reenactment club as a real clan flag, and lots of people suggesting they were using non-Japanese (but Asian) imagery, using a copy of a Katana from the One Piece Manga in their AC:Shadows booth in Paris, etc. [Given the relations between the Japanese/Chinese, western companies really have to tread carefully here.] From the top rated comment on X for the Japanese apology announcement (X translation) Counterpoint: Jesus of Nazareth | Assassin's Creed Wiki | Fandom ASSASSINSCREED.FANDOM.COM [...] With it, a poor carpenter turned water into wine.Al Mualim, on Jesus' use of a Piece of Eden, 1191. Jesus of Nazareth (c. 4 BCE – c. 33 CE) was a 1st century Jewish preacher and carpenter and is the central figure of Christianity. His believers, called Christians, view him as the Christ and the Messiah foretold in the Old Testament, believing him to be the "Son of God" who sacrificed himself to cleanse humanity's... If people don’t give a shit about JESUS FUCKIN CHRIST getting his juice from an Isu baby blanket there ain’t no way people authentically give a fuck about topknots and tatami mats. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 It can't be surprising to anyone here that AbsolutSurgen's regressive views are coming out, while ignoring all the counterpoints that obviously show that this is a xenophobic and racist response to the game, instead doing the conservative thing of going: "no, this time, the complaints are legit and not coded language at all, nuh uh". It's tiring we talk to the same users about the same things trying to educate/enlighten on the same topics yet we treat each time like the first time. It's a waste of time. Look how far his post went to double down on what is obviously xenophobia because a conservative can't see the difference Kal-El and users like him are drawing, it's just impossible. The cognitive dissonance is strong with conservatives with regressive views. They have to create a logical pretzel to somehow make this not about racism, and it's pretty plain to see in this thread. Assassin's Creed games are realistic until they're not, which every game in the series does (realism but also not realism) yet here there's an issue when there were few complaints about anachronisms and fictionalized history in the other games. It's obvious this isn't about the anachronisms and fictionalized history. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 2 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said: I went down a rabbit hole last night. Example from what I saw of Japanese pointing out the inaccuracies in this game. I'm not Japanese, nor do I speak Japanese -- so this could all be wrong, but I saw this kind of stuff over and over. YMMV 1) This room is impossibly tall for a Japanese building -- seeming more like Western architecture than Japanese and was likened to a "high school dojo" 2) The flooring is made to tatami-esque mats, but are not tatami mats. (Again I don't know enough on the topic, but lots of the stuff I saw ridiculed this floor as an example of westerners not understanding Japanese) 3) They had an aide on the same level as Nobunaga (apparently a big etiquette issue) I realize these are not your personal complaints, but some of these complaints are real stretches. I'm no expert, but I was in Japan last year and visited a number of the castles. Unfortunately they uniformly didn't allow cameras inside, but that room is totally a normal height and size for what you can visit in Japan today. I can't speak to how accurate the modern building are, as I know most of them have been rebuilt over the centuries if they're not complete modern recreations like Osaka castle, but that room is a very much a normal size for what you see in those historic sites today. If anything it's smaller than many of the large rooms I saw, that particular viewpoint is just shot with a wide angle. You can also see the floor is very much like what we see in the game. Here's a room from Nijo Castle: When I saw that room, it was staged with mannequins like this: You can't see from that perspective, but I'm pretty sure that there was another guy setup on the same level, like in this diagram: Maybe the complaints are "correct," but even if many of them are, they're nitpicking to the extreme. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 33 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: It can't be surprising to anyone here that AbsolutSurgen's regressive views are coming out, while ignoring all the counterpoints that obviously show that this is a xenophobic and racist response to the game, instead doing the conservative thing of going: "no, this time, the complaints are legit and not coded language at all, nuh uh". It's tiring we talk to the same users about the same things trying to educate/enlighten on the same topics yet we treat each time like the first time. It's a waste of time. Look how far his post went to double down on what is obviously xenophobia because a conservative can't see the difference Kal-El and users like him are drawing, it's just impossible. The cognitive dissonance is strong with conservatives with regressive views. They have to create a logical pretzel to somehow make this not about racism, and it's pretty plain to see in this thread. Assassin's Creed games are realistic until they're not, which every game in the series does (realism but also not realism) yet here there's an issue when there were few complaints about anachronisms and fictionalized history in the other games. It's obvious this isn't about the anachronisms and fictionalized history. I am neither a conservative, nor a progressive. My views are right of centre. If you are trying to "educate/enlighten" me on the views/values of the of the "progressive American far left" and that everything is based on systems of oppression and that everything/everyone is racist (and every other "ist"/'phobe"), you'll probably fail. If you're using "regressive" as not accepting "progressive far left" values, I'll take that as a complement. Thank-you. 44 minutes ago, TwinIon said: I realize these are not your personal complaints, but some of these complaints are real stretches. I'm no expert, but I was in Japan last year and visited a number of the castles. Unfortunately they uniformly didn't allow cameras inside, but that room is totally a normal height and size for what you can visit in Japan today. I can't speak to how accurate the modern building are, as I know most of them have been rebuilt over the centuries if they're not complete modern recreations like Osaka castle, but that room is a very much a normal size for what you see in those historic sites today. If anything it's smaller than many of the large rooms I saw, that particular viewpoint is just shot with a wide angle. You can also see the floor is very much like what we see in the game. Here's a room from Nijo Castle: When I saw that room, it was staged with mannequins like this: You can't see from that perspective, but I'm pretty sure that there was another guy setup on the same level, like in this diagram: Maybe the complaints are "correct," but even if many of them are, they're nitpicking to the extreme. Don't know. You could be right. My fascination with the topic was more directed at wondering "how Ubisoft managed to piss off so many Japanese". Particularly with the lack of success most western games have in Japan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 Dear God in heaven... Assassin's Creed Shadows debate somehow reaches Japanese government ministries, who reportedly remind everyone that historical fiction isn't really their concern at all | GamesRadar+ WWW.GAMESRADAR.COM No, the Japanese government isn't investigating Ubisoft's game 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 8 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: I am neither a conservative, nor a progressive. My views are right of centre. That'd be a generous reading based on the years of your posts I've read but sure. 8 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: If you are trying to "educate/enlighten" me on the views/values of the of the "progressive American far left" and that everything is based on systems of oppression and that everything/everyone is racist (and every other "ist"/'phobe"), you'll probably fail. I'm not trying to do anything, other users here are. And you kind of give yourself away when you presume that the progressive far left (which, yes, I consider myself among their number on many issues but not all) believes "everything" is based on systems of oppression and that "everything" is racist, etc. Not only is this not true of the far left, it is a regressive view to believe that not a lot (not all!) of current systems aren't built on ongoing systemic and institutional malfeasance (they are). Additionally, none of this has anything to do with the specific topic at hand, where you continue to ignore the very salient point that none of the Assassin's Creed games are 100% accurate and the scrutiny this game is receiving based on trailers is not in good faith, but you can't see that. Because if it was in good faith, why was there little uproar comparatively in the past regarding all the many inaccuracies in previous games, as other users have pointed out, compared to the attention this one is receiving? 8 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: If you're using "regressive" as not accepting "progressive far left" values, I'll take that as a complement. Thank-you. I'm using regressive to mean anachronistic, meaning your views are already dated and will be even more so in the decades to come. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted July 24 Share Posted July 24 7 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: That'd be a generous reading based on the years of your posts I've read but sure. He lived in the United States a number of years yet he always pleads ignorance of anything involving the United States when it comes to politics, except that if you mention his views he always brings up his views compared to those of American politics. It's a fun game. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 グレイットワンズヒア ( @Greatoneshere ) 日本で何人の日本人はウビソフトゲームを買いますか。一人も二人ですか。これはとても腐らているよ。 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 lol I thought the Japanese were super based and never complained about anything at all. That's why they always go to extreme lengths to be super historically accurate about both their culture and every other culture. Boo hoo, video game have black samurai, boo hoo, video game buildings not accurate in series where you fight mythological gods and canonically work at Ubisoft in one entry. Get over it, you bunch of whining pussy dipshits. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted July 25 Share Posted July 25 To whoever on twitter said "I think the story about Yasuke should just be considered "fiction based on Yasuke."" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted July 27 Share Posted July 27 Assassin's Creed Didn't Need to Explain Assassin's Creed to Idiots WWW.INVERSE.COM Ubisoft just gave the worst people on the internet ammunition to say they were right about Assassin's Creed. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted July 28 Author Share Posted July 28 On 7/26/2024 at 11:55 PM, Keyser_Soze said: Assassin's Creed Didn't Need to Explain Assassin's Creed to Idiots WWW.INVERSE.COM Ubisoft just gave the worst people on the internet ammunition to say they were right about Assassin's Creed. Other articles expressed similar sentiments: Ubisoft attempted to address historical 'authenticity' issues in Assassin's Creed Shadows and just made the whole situation worse | PC Gamer WWW.PCGAMER.COM A reasonable statement that didn't need to be made provides fresh fuel for the outrage factory. This Was Never About Anything Other Than Hate KOTAKU.COM Movements for ‘ethics in games journalism’ or against ‘forced DEI’ in video games are diaphanous veils draped over bigotry Ubisoft's Assassin's Creed Statement Fails To Say The Only Thing It Needed To WWW.THEGAMER.COM Ubisoft has defended Assassins Creed Shadows, but stopped short of calling out racist abuse. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted July 28 Share Posted July 28 3 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Other articles expressed similar sentiments: Ubisoft attempted to address historical 'authenticity' issues in Assassin's Creed Shadows and just made the whole situation worse | PC Gamer WWW.PCGAMER.COM A reasonable statement that didn't need to be made provides fresh fuel for the outrage factory. This Was Never About Anything Other Than Hate KOTAKU.COM Movements for ‘ethics in games journalism’ or against ‘forced DEI’ in video games are diaphanous veils draped over bigotry Ubisoft's Assassin's Creed Statement Fails To Say The Only Thing It Needed To WWW.THEGAMER.COM Ubisoft has defended Assassins Creed Shadows, but stopped short of calling out racist abuse. The extent to which my white life was sheltered was laid bare to me in 2007ish when I played Gears of War on XBL as Cole Train and 90%+ of what I heard on mic was the n word. Shit like Gamergate blew it out and made the broader toxicity of vocal gamers apparent. Again there’s no reason to do anything but deploy Occam’s razor here; gamers are just being shits. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted August 19 Author Share Posted August 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Posted August 19 Share Posted August 19 Looks and sounds fantastic. I'm hyped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted September 12 Share Posted September 12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted September 14 Author Share Posted September 14 Assassin's Creed Shadows developer on adapting Japanese culture, social media pressures and Ubisoft's controversial apology WWW.EUROGAMER.NET The world of Assassin's Creed Shadows is beautiful. At Gamescom 2024 in Cologne last month, Ubisoft refrained from prov… Quote Online, however, some of the response to Shadows has been less pretty. In June, Ubisoft boss Yves Guillemot condemned "the malicious and personal online attacks" directed at the game's developers after its initial reveal. Separately, Assassin's Creed franchise head Marc-Alexis Côté has spoken about having to take "a step back" rather than respond to criticism of the game on social media from X owner Elon Musk. The vast majority of online discourse has been centred on Yasuke, the historical figure Ubisoft has chosen as one of Shadows' two protagonists. Yasuke, an African man who travelled to and lived in Japan during the era Shadows is set, is portrayed as a powerful samurai in the game. Musk, and others who benefit from stirring up controversy, have suggested Yasuke's inclusion was a deliberate injection of "DEI" (diversity, equity and inclusion) at the cost of historical accuracy. Ubisoft itself, meanwhile, has discussed the choice of Yasuke as co-protagonist - alongside Japanese shinobi Naoe - as a deliberate choice that will allow players to "discover Japan through [Yasuke]'s eyes, the eyes of a foreigner". Fans have pointed out that Assassin's Creed - a franchise whose story involves secret organisations and civilisations manipulating human history from the birth of Adam and Eve up to and including the Moon landings - has always embellished real-world events and added its own wacky narrative elements. And yet Ubisoft recently issued an apology for elements that might have "caused concern" among some Japanese fans, raising eyebrows. Amidst all this, at Gamescom last month, I sat down with Assassin's Creed Shadows art director Thierry Dansereau - a veteran of the series since Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood, and who has served as art director on Revelations, Syndicate, Odyssey and expansions for Assassin's Creed 3 and Black Flag. Was it tough to work on such a high-profile project, I wondered, with so much noise going on in the background? "It's good that our game has visibility," Dansereau said. But what about those, like Musk, who are calling the team's choices into question? "Of course we're making creative choices," Dansereau replied, matter of factly. "It's a video game in the end, so we want to make the best experience as possible for our players. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted September 14 Share Posted September 14 So what about that statement? Ubisoft's apology was vague on what it was actually apologising for, leaving it at best feeling like a polite acceptance it hadn't got everything right amidst quibbles over concept art and contemporary flags but also, uncomfortably, simultaneously feeling like it was pandering to an audience keen to find offence. Shortly after the statement was published, the moderation team of the main Assassin's Creed reddit banned all discussion of Yasuke's role as a samurai in the game to avoid further vitriol being spread, and said Ubisoft's statement had only "exacerbated" the online controversy further. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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