Television Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+), update (08/19): RIP in Peace

[AbsolutSurgen]

39 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

The explorations of morality may not necessarily have been particularly deep or complex, but they have been present and I'd much rather see them take the risks of exploring more complex moral interactions -- where in some instances they have actually had genuine success (Rogue One, Andor) -- than not do so at all.

I have always thought of Andor more of a hero's journey than a complex moral interaction.  If this story was in the vein of Andor, I wouldn't be so critical of it.

9 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

something I remind myself of and others is that at this point and for a while now all Star Wars has been fan made. Professional fan fiction, if you will. 
 

as much as many people like to point to legends as “canon” there was always been a massive asterisk for any SW piece of media that wasn’t a George Lucas made movie. He never considered them part of his canon unless he pulled it into canon. And it’s not like his canon was always universally loved or acknowledged. The People vs George Lucas had some of the same people criticizing him there who are acting like Disney is destroying his legacy. Even George contradicted himself or changed the lore in ways that had people angry. 
 

there are so many interpretations for all things Star Wars, the Jedi and the Force. So I *try* not to get too hung up on lore. I don’t always succeed. Though I tend to get more annoyed when writers put themselves in a situation where they have to bend over backwards and jump through hoops to not step on established canon. Most of the time it is their own fault for being there, and they just made a worse story because of it.  

I think there is a difference between fan fiction and fiction that has been approved as being "in canon" by LucasFilm.

I, personally, don't put George on a pedestal.  I appreciate a LOT of the things he did in movie making, and the creation of ILM, but certainly recognize some of his missteps.  I don't think I have ever, personally, been a super-stickler for lore. 

IMHO, deciding to put a story in this particular time frame boxes you in to some extent.  If they had put it thousands of years in the past, or after Episode 9, they would have had far less constraints to worry about.  That said, I'm not sure lore inconsistencies are near the top of the list when it comes to the problems of this series.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

11 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I have always thought of Andor more of a hero's journey than a complex moral interaction.  If this story was in the vein of Andor, I wouldn't be so critical of it

 

Andor very much contains arcs of moral complexity that go well beyond what we're typically used to seeing in Star Wars-related media.  Practically all of the main characters operate in a zone of moral ambiguity.

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Andor very much contains arcs of moral complexity that go well beyond what we're typically used to seeing in Star Wars-related media.  Practically all of the main characters operate in a zone of moral ambiguity.

You're right.  Andor and Rogue One probably have the best story telling in Star Wars.  I would probably phrase it differently than you, but I suspect we're mostly saying the same thing in different ways.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

10 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

That said, I'm not sure lore inconsistencies are near the top of the list when it comes to the problems of this series.

i agree. Though there is a very vocal contingent of fans that it is ALL they care about. Or at least their #1. I consistently see and hear not Legends being their proof that this show is violating established lore. The issue there is Legends has never been main canon.
 

but I just meant that we are at a point where the god and creator of the star wars universe and lore is not guiding any of these projects. They are all being made by fans on what they interpret or what they would like to see. …and in some cases what market research tells them could increase subscribers and viewers. lol

 

so as much as you and I may not agree on what the Jedi should be, how they should be. So will so many others.  

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 minute ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

but I just meant that we are at a point where the god and creator of the star wars universe and lore is not guiding any of these projects. They are all being made by fans on what they interpret or what they would like to see. …and in some cases what market research tells them could increase subscribers and viewers. lol

Based on her previous interviews, I don't buy Leslye Headland being much of a fan of Star Wars.

I do, however, agree with you 100% -- she made what she wanted to see (rather than what market research told them we wanted).

6 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

i agree. Though there is a very vocal contingent of fans that it is ALL they care about. Or at least their #1. I consistently see and hear not Legends being their proof that this show is violating established lore. The issue there is Legends has never been main canon.

 There is always going to be that contingent of people with any big IP -- and I have seen those discussions ad nauseum on social media.  Not sure I've seen them on D1P.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

17 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Andor very much contains arcs of moral complexity that go well beyond what we're typically used to seeing in Star Wars-related media.  Practically all of the main characters operate in a zone of moral ambiguity.

I would argue it is morally gray done right. Not at every moment, but looked at as a whole arc. It is believably flawed people doing questionable things to serve a greater good against an unambiguously evil force. You even have “doing the right thing for the wrong reasons”. 

[GeneticBlueprint]

On 7/11/2024 at 1:32 PM, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Andor very much contains arcs of moral complexity that go well beyond what we're typically used to seeing in Star Wars-related media.  Practically all of the main characters operate in a zone of moral ambiguity.

 

 

[CayceG]

So I've not watched any Acolyte, but I have heard it's a bit confusing or strangely presented. 

 

Is it basically a Rashomon-style mystery story done in Star Wars?

[GeneticBlueprint]

2 minutes ago, CayceG said:

So I've not watched any Acolyte, but I have heard it's a bit confusing or strangely presented. 

 

Is it basically a Rashomon-style mystery story done in Star Wars?

 

This would be an extremely generous interpretation. The Rashomon-esqueness isn't well thought out.

[CayceG]

Well that's disappointing. 

[skillzdadirecta]

11 hours ago, CayceG said:

Is it basically a Rashomon-style mystery story done in Star Wars?

Lol I wish... it's not bad, but Rashomon? That's a stretch.

[AbsolutSurgen]

15 hours ago, CayceG said:

So I've not watched any Acolyte, but I have heard it's a bit confusing or strangely presented. 

 

Is it basically a Rashomon-style mystery story done in Star Wars?

A Rashomon mystery involves different and conflicting perspectives of the same events. The retelling in episode 7 doesn’t give anything conflicting. Much of it is identical, with slightly more details. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

“See you in hell jedi” ?? It was weird when Han said hell in Empire and it is even more weird now. 
 

so uhhhh what was the motivation for Mae staying behind? Why would the stranger not take both sisters? Wtf is even going on any more? lol 

 

so I guess we saw his master. Looked kind if like the art we’d seen for Plagous. 
 

and of course they couldn’t help themselves with showing Yoda at the end.

 

so now that we have the whole season I feel a complete sense of “meh” about it. 

[johnny]

let’s goooooooo 

[johnny]

23 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

“See you in hell jedi” ?? It was weird when Han said hell in Empire and it is even more weird now. 
 

 

  Hide contents

so uhhhh what was the motivation for Mae staying behind? Why would the stranger not take both sisters? Wtf is even going on any more? lol 

 

 

so I guess we saw his master. Looked kind if like the art we’d seen for Plagous. 
 

and of course they couldn’t help themselves with showing Yoda at the end.

 

 

 

so now that we have the whole season I feel a complete sense of “meh” about it. 

they know the jedi are actively looking for Mae and he doesn’t need her anymore. They may be thinking that the jedi will think she also killed Sol. Wipe her memories thinking she won’t be able to help the jedi. though she will likely be able to and Vernestra covered the whole story so i don’t think Mae has actually been charged with anything? 

 

it’s not perfect but fuck it we ball. need season 2 so i can read some of yalls complaints watching another season of a show yall dislike 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

So what, Osha’s like “fuck you, sis. You staying behind as the fall guy.”? Lol

[legend]

Well, the season had 1 good episode at least!

[johnny]

1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

So what, Osha’s like “fuck you, sis. You staying behind as the fall guy.”? Lol

she did just force choke Sol to death 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

I do like how Sol still tried to gaslight Mae. “You set the fire Mae”. Yeah a fire that killed nobody while he literally stabbed her mother in front of her after breaking and entering. Hmm

[TwinIon]

If they explained why Qimir couldn't take both sisters, I totally missed it. My guesses were either that his ship couldn't fit them all or it was some kind of Sith rule of two thing, but either way I didn't catch any explanation at all. They seemed to go strait to "one of you needs to stay here" and for some reason it was better to wipe Mae's memory than it would be to leave her be? She only saw Qimir's real face not very long ago, how much could she really know about him?

 

What it comes down to for me isn't that the show needs to have the best answers for everything, but when what they give you isn't sufficient, it collapses the whole house of cards.

 

My initial verdict is that this season has been uneven and unsatisfying, but not terrible. At the very least, Qimir is quite interesting and we got some pretty cool fight scenes. 

[Greatoneshere]

3 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

I do like how Sol still tried to gaslight Mae. “You set the fire Mae”. Yeah a fire that killed nobody while he literally stabbed her mother in front of her after breaking and entering. Hmm

 

Well technically he says that she started the fire (which is true) and he says that she locked everyone inside (at her other mother's request), which is also true. Those aren't good things, to be fair to Sol. Now why did the Jedi when they left leave all the Force witches to die (burn to death) when they passed out from Carrie Ann-Moss's counter attack to save Kelnacca? A great question. Creator/showrunner Leslye Headland in an interview said she kept it intentionally vague and doesn't know herself whether they were passed out and the Jedi let them burn to death or the Force counter attack actually killed them all at once. To keep that vague seems stupid to me.

 

59 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

My initial verdict is that this season has been uneven and unsatisfying, but not terrible. At the very least, Qimir is quite interesting and we got some pretty cool fight scenes. 

 

This is where I land. Cool fight scenes and Qimir is pretty interesting thanks to Manny Jacinto's performance. The show should have been about him against Master Vernestra honestly.

 

Okay, so, I finally watched the final episode. It started off promising enough but then started going south pretty quickly once everyone got to Brendok again. I'm going to try to keep my list of complaints (nitpicks both big and small) to a minimum, but I had so many questions/criticisms as the episode went on. I will say this: excellent action scenes in this finale as well as better costuming/filmmaking than any episode previously. I was actually enjoying the episode moment to moment for awhile despite all the logistical and structural writing flaws going on. But then it became too much. If people have legit answers to my questions I'm all ears. I'm sure no one will read this whole thing but these thoughts immediately hit me going through the episode.

 

1.  I have no idea how Qimir's helmet works. It's supposed to keep out the force from others but somehow at the same time amplifies your own force use. Even ignoring that weird conundrum, what the hell is happening in the opening scene when Osha is wearing the helmet? She's having a force vision of the future (which she mistakes for Mae rather than herself) but Qimir's eyes go black like when the force witches did a spell on Torbin and Kelnacca. When it cuts to Qimir's perspective he's clearly in a darker cave than the one they're actually sitting in (like what happened to Torbin and Kelnacca) but unlike them he's able to fight it and eventually gets the helmet off Osha. Why was he able to fight it unlike them, he has no more experience than Torbin or Kelnacca did regarding force witchcraft. But okay, whatever. 

 

2. Why does proving a vergence require having both twins? Vergences are abstract things, would the High Council specifically expect twins? Torbin had all the m-data on the twins already, etc. that they could have shown, on top of having Osha, that there was a proven vergence there. Sol says they would have taken Osha away as another reason why they lied to the High Council, but only Sol cares about that, not Carrie-Anne Moss or Torbin or Kelnacca, yet Carrie-Anne's character lies for the group to the High Council (to help cover for Sol?). Sol uses this as an excuse as to why they lied to the High Council but it doesn't make any sense. 

 

3. Why does the tracker Balzin rip the wiring out of the ship, stopping Sol from getting to Mae as she escapes in the ship chase? 

 

4. Why did Sol go back to Brendok in the ship after explaining everything to Mae? They leave Brendok right before Master Venestra's team arrived two episodes prior (Sol turning off his tracking beacon) to go somewhere else and "explain everything to Mae" but when Mae takes the escape ship for the ship chase in this episode they're already back in the vicinity of Brendok for no reason that I can think of. 

 

5. Random Darth Plageus shot and random back of Yoda's head shot were so fan service-y as to be almost jarring. The Yoda one is acceptable but randomly showing someone we've never seen in live-action before with no context is such blatant easter egg'ing that it goes from a cool insert to somewhat derailing things.

 

6. Sol uses the force when he gets off the ship when he lands on Brendok to feel out where Mae is and then starts walking in that direction. But then when he's looking for Mae in the burnt out force witch fortress, he yells out her name multiple times but doesn't use the force to clearly sense that she's right at his feet hanging off of the ledge? 

 

7. The dark side has instant force teleportation? Qimir uses it twice (at the elevator and then in the final confrontation once it's over) and Mae uses it once (once her fight with Osha ends). Is this some kind of super force jump or something? This was very strange to me. The force can have some elasticity to its rules but it can't just be anything you want in any moment all the time.

 

8. Mae and Osha's motivations make no sense throughout this episode. I don't want to go at length because this post is too long already but they fight, they make up, they switch motivations, etc. I have no idea why they are doing what they're doing in any given moment.

 

9. Force choke is a big deal? Khyber crystals turn red when you choose the dark side and then hold a lightsaber?

 

10. Why does Mae not want to continue her training and using the force? Why does she choose to have her memory erased rather than just also escape, separately from Qimir and Osha if needed? Why is Osha okay with all of this? Why does Mae want to potentially go to jail over what she did when she felt she was justified in what she was doing? Why can't Qimir train both of them? Wouldn't Darth Plageus want both twins at the same time to better learn about vergences and creating life using the force? Is Osha and Mae hope to meet again, why would they erase her memories?

 

11. Using the force to wipe memories is now a thing? Seems quite an OP thing to be able to do so casually. This is a very dumb force power to introduce into Star Wars. 

 

TL;DR: the show had a lot of structural writing problems, despite some good stuff here and there. Definitely the definition of average or mediocre. The show teases a season 2 but I don't think it will get one. Maybe it will given how much money they've already committed to the project. If so, I hope for a big improvement, probably swap out the showrunner and writers with a new team.

 

[Greatoneshere]

15 hours ago, johnny said:

it’s not perfect but fuck it we ball. need season 2 so i can read some of yalls complaints watching another season of a show yall dislike 

 

In this case, this isn't an entirely fair criticism because if you want to understand everything in Star Wars or the MCU now (among many other burgeoning franchises these days), and you're a completionist like me, you're compelled to watch everything. I feel like it's easier to keep up than fall behind and then have a stacked backlog as a result. I want to be able to understand most of what's going on in Star Wars (or the MCU) now that I'm committed because a lot of stuff in each franchise is good stuff (especially early on when these franchises were starting out) and to do that requires pretty much at least watching all the live-action and animated stuff they make. It's that or be selective based on reviews and word of mouth but since there's this connected universe there may end up being gaps I don't want doing it that way. So here we are. 

 

I'm not hate-watching the show or anything, but it is very average.

[johnny]

11 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

In this case, this isn't an entirely fair criticism because if you want to understand everything in Star Wars or the MCU now (among many other burgeoning franchises these days), and you're a completionist like me, you're compelled to watch everything. I feel like it's easier to keep up than fall behind and then have a stacked backlog as a result. I want to be able to understand most of what's going on in Star Wars (or the MCU) now that I'm committed because a lot of stuff in each franchise is good stuff (especially early on when these franchises were starting out) and to do that requires pretty much at least watching all the live-action and animated stuff they make. It's that or be selective based on reviews and word of mouth but since there's this connected universe there may end up being gaps I don't want doing it that way. So here we are. 

 

I'm not hate-watching the show or anything, but it is very average.

we’re just different. i watched all the mcu stuff until secret invasion was so bad it turned me off. didn’t watch loki season 2, echo, 2nd season of what if, and anything else that might have released. i’ll probably watch the next movie when it hits streaming because it’s only ~2 hours but they’ve completely lost me on the shows which are much more time consuming. i don’t see the point in watching something you don’t enjoy. if i wanted to find out what happened in Echo for example i might just watch a 5 minute youtube summary instead of sitting through the whole thing. 

[TwinIon]

16 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Well technically he says that she started the fire (which is true) and he says that she locked everyone inside (at her other mother's request), which is also true. Those aren't good things, to be fair to Sol. Now why did the Jedi when they left leave all the Force witches to die (burn to death) when they passed out from Carrie Ann-Moss's counter attack to save Kelnacca? A great question. Creator/showrunner Leslye Headland in an interview said she kept it intentionally vague and doesn't know herself whether they were passed out and the Jedi let them burn to death or the Force counter attack actually killed them all at once. To keep that vague seems stupid to me.

 

 

This is where I land. Cool fight scenes and Qimir is pretty interesting thanks to Manny Jacinto's performance. The show should have been about him against Master Vernestra honestly.

 

Okay, so, I finally watched the final episode. It started off promising enough but then started going south pretty quickly once everyone got to Brendok again. I'm going to try to keep my list of complaints (nitpicks both big and small) to a minimum, but I had so many questions/criticisms as the episode went on. I will say this: excellent action scenes in this finale as well as better costuming/filmmaking than any episode previously. I was actually enjoying the episode moment to moment for awhile despite all the logistical and structural writing flaws going on. But then it became too much. If people have legit answers to my questions I'm all ears. I'm sure no one will read this whole thing but these thoughts immediately hit me going through the episode.

 

1.  I have no idea how Qimir's helmet works. It's supposed to keep out the force from others but somehow at the same time amplifies your own force use. Even ignoring that weird conundrum, what the hell is happening in the opening scene when Osha is wearing the helmet? She's having a force vision of the future (which she mistakes for Mae rather than herself) but Qimir's eyes go black like when the force witches did a spell on Torbin and Kelnacca. When it cuts to Qimir's perspective he's clearly in a darker cave than the one they're actually sitting in (like what happened to Torbin and Kelnacca) but unlike them he's able to fight it and eventually gets the helmet off Osha. Why was he able to fight it unlike them, he has no more experience than Torbin or Kelnacca did regarding force witchcraft. But okay, whatever. 

 

2. Why does proving a vergence require having both twins? Vergences are abstract things, would the High Council specifically expect twins? Torbin had all the m-data on the twins already, etc. that they could have shown, on top of having Osha, that there was a proven vergence there. Sol says they would have taken Osha away as another reason why they lied to the High Council, but only Sol cares about that, not Carrie-Anne Moss or Torbin or Kelnacca, yet Carrie-Anne's character lies for the group to the High Council (to help cover for Sol?). Sol uses this as an excuse as to why they lied to the High Council but it doesn't make any sense. 

 

3. Why does the tracker Balzin rip the wiring out of the ship, stopping Sol from getting to Mae as she escapes in the ship chase? 

 

4. Why did Sol go back to Brendok in the ship after explaining everything to Mae? They leave Brendok right before Master Venestra's team arrived two episodes prior (Sol turning off his tracking beacon) to go somewhere else and "explain everything to Mae" but when Mae takes the escape ship for the ship chase in this episode they're already back in the vicinity of Brendok for no reason that I can think of. 

 

5. Random Darth Plageus shot and random back of Yoda's head shot were so fan service-y as to be almost jarring. The Yoda one is acceptable but randomly showing someone we've never seen in live-action before with no context is such blatant easter egg'ing that it goes from a cool insert to somewhat derailing things.

 

6. Sol uses the force when he gets off the ship when he lands on Brendok to feel out where Mae is and then starts walking in that direction. But then when he's looking for Mae in the burnt out force witch fortress, he yells out her name multiple times but doesn't use the force to clearly sense that she's right at his feet hanging off of the ledge? 

 

7. The dark side has instant force teleportation? Qimir uses it twice (at the elevator and then in the final confrontation once it's over) and Mae uses it once (once her fight with Osha ends). Is this some kind of super force jump or something? This was very strange to me. The force can have some elasticity to its rules but it can't just be anything you want in any moment all the time.

 

8. Mae and Osha's motivations make no sense throughout this episode. I don't want to go at length because this post is too long already but they fight, they make up, they switch motivations, etc. I have no idea why they are doing what they're doing in any given moment.

 

9. Force choke is a big deal? Khyber crystals turn red when you choose the dark side and then hold a lightsaber?

 

10. Why does Mae not want to continue her training and using the force? Why does she choose to have her memory erased rather than just also escape, separately from Qimir and Osha if needed? Why is Osha okay with all of this? Why does Mae want to potentially go to jail over what she did when she felt she was justified in what she was doing? Why can't Qimir train both of them? Wouldn't Darth Plageus want both twins at the same time to better learn about vergences and creating life using the force? Is Osha and Mae hope to meet again, why would they erase her memories?

 

11. Using the force to wipe memories is now a thing? Seems quite an OP thing to be able to do so casually. This is a very dumb force power to introduce into Star Wars. 

 

TL;DR: the show had a lot of structural writing problems, despite some good stuff here and there. Definitely the definition of average or mediocre. The show teases a season 2 but I don't think it will get one. Maybe it will given how much money they've already committed to the project. If so, I hope for a big improvement, probably swap out the showrunner and writers with a new team.

 

Yeah, I also thought it was weird when Sol said he would go to the Council now that both twins were alive. If this is such a crazy important thing, it sure seems like it should have merited a mention.

 

I also have no clue why the tracker dude stopped Sol, but his whole deal is weird. They treat him more like a pet than a sentient creature, so I really don't know what his deal is.

 

Until I got online this morning I honestly had no idea that was supposed to be Plagueis. I've seen most everything Star Wars and had no clue who that was. Given the way he was shown, it's also very unclear what we're supposed to take from his presence. People sure seem excited on Reddit though.

 

I also didn't quite get the disappearing trick. I read it as some kind of force power that blacked someone out for a moment rather than straight up teleportation, but who knows.

 

Something else I wasn't aware of until getting online today is that apparently "bleeding" a lightsaber is an established thing. It's another one of those things that exists in the books and comics that I don't think we've seen on screen before.

[Greatoneshere]

7 minutes ago, johnny said:

we’re just different. i watched all the mcu stuff until secret invasion was so bad it turned me off. didn’t watch loki season 2, echo, 2nd season of what if, and anything else that might have released. i’ll probably watch the next movie when it hits streaming because it’s only ~2 hours but they’ve completely lost me on the shows which are much more time consuming. i don’t see the point in watching something you don’t enjoy. if i wanted to find out what happened in Echo for example i might just watch a 5 minute youtube summary instead of sitting through the whole thing. 

 

I like knowing the context myself even if I have to "suffer" through something average or actively bad (Secret Invasion was certainly that). We're definitely different, I was just explaining why me (and I imagine others) do watch shows we dislike. You were posting as if you were surprised or didn't understand why someone would, so I was explaining myself. 

 

Also, frequently "watching something you don't enjoy" doesn't happen right away. Nothing is immune from criticism. If something is bad in ways that seem to break the show, and you try to stick with it anyway only for that to continue, whether a person stops watching or not doesn't make the show any less immune from criticism just because people are watching something they aren't enjoying all that much. For example, The Acolyte's problems are all right there, in this show they're obvious. Doesn't mean I can't enjoy the cool fight in this last episode while being critical of story flow and structure. 

[GeneticBlueprint]

7 minutes ago, johnny said:

we’re just different. i watched all the mcu stuff until secret invasion was so bad it turned me off. didn’t watch loki season 2, echo, 2nd season of what if, and anything else that might have released. i’ll probably watch the next movie when it hits streaming because it’s only ~2 hours but they’ve completely lost me on the shows which are much more time consuming. i don’t see the point in watching something you don’t enjoy. if i wanted to find out what happened in Echo for example i might just watch a 5 minute youtube summary instead of sitting through the whole thing. 

 

You can watch something and want to or hope to enjoy it, and yet the final result is still lacking.

[Greatoneshere]

8 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

Something else I wasn't aware of until getting online today is that apparently "bleeding" a lightsaber is an established thing. It's another one of those things that exists in the books and comics that I don't think we've seen on screen before.

 

That certainly helps explain its presence here, and I did think it was a cool moment. It was definitely the thing I had the least issue with in everything I mentioned.  

 

And your reaction to Darth Plageus is exactly why I had issue with the way they did it, and you know Star Wars. Your average viewer is just going to go: "okay, and then that happened" and just move on. It just wasn't presented right. Clearly it's to hint at a season 2 but without more it came off as forced.

[johnny]

one of the villains in Jedi Survivor bleeds his crystal too 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

40 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

9. Force choke is a big deal? Khyber crystals turn red when you choose the dark side and then hold a lightsaber?

Yeah there doesn’t seem to be much consistency with bleeding lightsaber crystals.In the Vader comic they make it seem like a battle of wills between crystal and the person that was taxing. In Jedi Survivor he just does something, I don’t even remember him touching the crystal and with seemingly minimal effort.  And then here Osha just gets a bit mad while holding a lightsaber and seekingly once the process starts it keeps going without her trying.  
 

lol honestly it makes Vader look like a weak bitch who barely bled his crystal. Even if it us my favorite depiction of it. 
 

40 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

11. Using the force to wipe memories is now a thing? Seems quite an OP thing to be able to do so casually. This is a very dumb force power to introduce into Star Wars

i can’t say if it is the first time in modern canon, but in Legends it was a major thing in Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic. Though they made it seem like it took multiple people to do it if I recall. Council members even. 
 

the mind wipe seems far too generous and nice for a would be sith. He doesn’t seem like the same guy that was trying so very hard to kill Mae in episode 5. Except when he could kill Mae, and had his lightsaber up to her head and just didn’t care to kill her any more. 
 

Plot armor shouldn’t muddle people’s motivations. If Mae can’t die for the story, don’t write her into those situations. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

27 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

I also didn't quite get the disappearing trick. I read it as some kind of force power that blacked someone out for a moment rather than straight up teleportation, but who knows.

I thought it was like some kind of ninja or batman like thing. Maybe enhanced with the force, but more likely to point towards their “assassin training” or whatever. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

25 minutes ago, johnny said:

one of the villains in Jedi Survivor bleeds his crystal too 

yeah he disassembles his lightsaber with the force including removing the crystal bleeds it while it is in the air and then puts his saber back together again. I’ve seen some say that he didn’t fully bleed his crystal since the color only changed to orange. I’m not sure the significance of orange vs red since the guy in Ahsoka also had an orange blade instead if a red one. 

[Greatoneshere]

1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

i can’t say if it is the first time in modern canon, but in Legends it was a major thing in Star Wars Knights of the Old Republic. Though they made it seem like it took multiple people to do it if I recall. Council members even. 
 

 

I do rememeber it in KOTOR but there if I recall it wasn't done so easily or casually and KOTOR isn't currently canon. That being said, I didn't like it's use there either, except at least there the reason for it led to a great twist if one wasn't paying attention. They should have let sleeping dogs lie.

 

1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

the mind wipe seems far too generous and nice for a would be sith. He doesn’t seem like the same guy that was trying so very hard to kill Mae in episode 5. Except when he could kill Mae, and had his lightsaber up to her head and just didn’t care to kill her any more. 
 

Plot armor shouldn’t muddle people’s motivations. If Mae can’t die for the story, don’t write her into those situations. 

 

Agreed. Qimir clearly wasn't ever going to hurt Mae or Osha since he needs them for Darth Plageus but at the same time what was the point of Mae's revenge mission or her training if we're just gonna wipe her memory? Perhaps a season 2 could capitalize on this but it felt mostly lame.

 

1 hour ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

I thought it was like some kind of ninja or batman like thing. Maybe enhanced with the force, but more likely to point towards their “assassin training” or whatever. 

 

But it's dumb. It's in an instant, not enough time to do anything but use the force or run behind the nearest tree or whatever.  

[GeneticBlueprint]

3 hours ago, TwinIon said:

My initial verdict is that this season has been uneven and unsatisfying, but not terrible. At the very least, Qimir is quite interesting and we got some pretty cool fight scenes. 

 

2 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

This is where I land. Cool fight scenes and Qimir is pretty interesting thanks to Manny Jacinto's performance. The show should have been about him against Master Vernestra honestly.

 

This is the trajectory it was on for me through episodes three or four. But especially because of the last two episodes I am firmly in 'god-awful' territory. This show fucking sucks. The absolutely terrible terrible writing, rickety story structure, and almost-universally horrific acting in this show left me not understanding and/or not caring about the various character motivations and choices made throughout the arc of this tale. I mean they're revealing all this stuff about Sol and what actually happened when all the stone and steel caught fire like a parched forest and it's just absolutely meaningless blah.

 

The answer to Why did you kill my mom Sol? was some nonsense about "Because I was trying to give you what you wanted" when he already had a real, actual, legitimate answer that he didn't give: "She put my friend in a coma with just her mind and then turned into a dark scary energy and I was defending myself. Maybe I shouldn't have been there and avoided the situation entirely but it is what it is and I'm sorry."

 

From pretty much the onset we know that Sol did a bad and we're waiting episode, after episode, after episode to come to an understanding of what that is specifically. We get there and it's supposed to be emotional and gut wrenching. Instead it's a convoluted mess that lacks weight or meaning the moment you ask any follow up question.

 

Why did you do this coverup Sol? "So you could be happy" Why couldn't I be happy without the coverup? "Because the Jedi wouldn't like your existence if they knew your true origins." Why don't they like my origins? "Because there are two of you. But one? No biggie." Oh okay this thing that this entire tragedy hinges on requires no further explanation at all thanks Sol.

 

It would have been much more effective to reveal Sol as the cause of all this in the last two or so episodes. Instead I'm constantly checking my metaphorical watch waiting for the end because I know I'm supposed to get an answer because nothing satisfying comes. Right up through the end.

 

The one thing--despite all the terribleness--that I was holding onto with this show, and would make me want to maybe try again in season two, was "at least this is a different era completely divorced of all the other material." Which they then proceeded to toss out the window in the very last shot of that finale. Yes I know Yoda is a billion years old but please for the love of god stop.

[johnny]

3 hours ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

 

You can watch something and want to or hope to enjoy it, and yet the final result is still lacking.

you just said this show was god awful. please for your own sake do not watch season 2 if there is one lmao. you finished the season. this is a good point to break things off. see if others say season 2 is better before subjecting yourself it. 

 

also, makes sense that yoda would have some level of involvement since this show doesn’t take place THAT long ago. the difference between him being like 620 or 700 years old likely won’t change his standing in the order much. and we don’t know what his role will even be. he might go out there and flip around with his lightsaber or he might just chat with vernestra a bit.

[GeneticBlueprint]

8 minutes ago, johnny said:

you just said this show was god awful. please for your own sake do not watch season 2 if there is one lmao. you finished the season. this is a good point to break things off. see if others say season 2 is better before subjecting yourself it. 

 

1 hour ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

The one thing--despite all the terribleness--that I was holding onto with this show, and would make me want to maybe try again in season two, was "at least this is a different era completely divorced of all the other material." Which they then proceeded to toss out the window in the very last shot of that finale. Yes I know Yoda is a billion years old but please for the love of god stop.