Television Star Wars: The Acolyte (Disney+), update (08/19): RIP in Peace

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

27 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

Are we spoiler tagging current stuff?

I only did because the current stuff was only an hour old and not everyone may watch it tonight. 

[johnny]

that episode kicked ass 

[GeneticBlueprint]

Undeniably cool lightsaber porn

[TheShader]

5 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Booo. I want to see those sith eyes. 
 

anyways, episode 5

 

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damn, I didn’t think they’d kill a child. Mae going back to full evil is nice too. Even tried to kill Osha. Or did I see that wrong? That wound on her side, was that a lightsaber stab or just a cut from the ground or whatever? 

 

am I thinking or getting the vibe though that he is not THE rule of 2 Sith in this era. But somebody who maybe stumbled across a Sith holocron or something. He seems both too young to have killed his own Sith master, and unless they are retconning the Grand Plan, he seems unaware of the thousand year old plan to amass power, kill all the Jedi and take over the Republic. He seems more like some self proclaimed wiccan girl who lives in an overly christian town that just wants to practice her fake witch magic in the woods in peace. 
 

I dunno. Maybe this will end with him drawing the attention of the true Sith master and getting absolutely wrecked. Per Legends at least Darth Plagues is alive, but only around 15 years of age at this point, so his master Darth Tenebrous would have been the Sith Master at this time. But they could also be establishing new cannon.

 

 

Spoiler

I felt it was fairly clear, Darth Bortles isn't a Sith. He says it himself. He doesn't have a name but states that the Jedi would call him a Sith. It's like an atheist saying 'I don't have a religion but Christians would call me a Satanist'. Except in this case, it seems he is, at minimum, trying to emulate the Sith. The impression I got is he is a dark side user wanting to reject the Jedi order and the closest thing he has to understanding himself is the myth known as 'The Sith'.

 

I don't think he knows anything about the Sith other than they're the Boogeyman of the Jedi. But I don't think that doesn't mean he won't learn more about the Sith order given time. Whether by coming across a holocron (Once owned by Revan, perhaps?) or coming across Plagues.

 

I'm going to toss out wild theory. I don't know how married I am to it, so don't come at me expecting me to defend it as of now, but it's just a thought in the front of my mind right now: as stated, Smylo-Ren knows jack about the Sith other than they're the polar opposite of the Jedi. But this is the dark side actively infecting him and guiding him in the direction of being corrupt. This eventually leads him to a holocon, again possibly that of Revan, that details out the religion known as the Sith Order. He takes up a new name, Darth Plagues, and one or both twins become his apprentices. Most likely just one. The twin(s) is/are his connection to the nightsisters which leads to hundreds of years later Maul being chosen as an apprentice by Palpatine. Whether from some direct lineage or just a general affinity for witches that was sparked during this story.

 

Could even be Plagues telling Palpatine stories of the twins being born of The Force. Which would not only be inspiration for their attempts to create life but Palpatine could have recruited Maul as an apprentice with the hopes that he could lead to the secrets of creating life through The Force. Which, for the record, current canon is that Plagues and Palpatine attempted to create life with The Force, wildly failed, and The Force created Anakin as a reaction to the imbalance they created in their failed attempt.

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

3 hours ago, TheShader said:

 

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I felt it was fairly clear, Darth Bortles isn't a Sith. He says it himself. He doesn't have a name but states that the Jedi would call him a Sith. It's like an atheist saying 'I don't have a religion but Christians would call me a Satanist'. Except in this case, it seems he is, at minimum, trying to emulate the Sith. The impression I got is he is a dark side user wanting to reject the Jedi order and the closest thing he has to understanding himself is the myth known as 'The Sith'.

 

I don't think he knows anything about the Sith other than they're the Boogeyman of the Jedi. But I don't think that doesn't mean he won't learn more about the Sith order given time. Whether by coming across a holocron (Once owned by Revan, perhaps?) or coming across Plagues.

 

I'm going to toss out wild theory. I don't know how married I am to it, so don't come at me expecting me to defend it as of now, but it's just a thought in the front of my mind right now: as stated, Smylo-Ren knows jack about the Sith other than they're the polar opposite of the Jedi. But this is the dark side actively infecting him and guiding him in the direction of being corrupt. This eventually leads him to a holocon, again possibly that of Revan, that details out the religion known as the Sith Order. He takes up a new name, Darth Plagues, and one or both twins become his apprentices. Most likely just one. The twin(s) is/are his connection to the nightsisters which leads to hundreds of years later Maul being chosen as an apprentice by Palpatine. Whether from some direct lineage or just a general affinity for witches that was sparked during this story.

 

Could even be Plagues telling Palpatine stories of the twins being born of The Force. Which would not only be inspiration for their attempts to create life but Palpatine could have recruited Maul as an apprentice with the hopes that he could lead to the secrets of creating life through The Force. Which, for the record, current canon is that Plagues and Palpatine attempted to create life with The Force, wildly failed, and The Force created Anakin as a reaction to the imbalance they created in their failed attempt.

 

I agree with the first part. It is possible he found teachings from a pre-Revan Sith that was a former jedi. Like from one that practiced the darkside, was excommunicated by the jedi and hunted by them too. Happened more than once leading to more than one Jedi war. 

 

also I thought of “what would be a fan service dumb ending” and I came up High Council member Yoda just simply schooling this kid and saying something like “a true sith, he was not”. Which would have fans blowing their load and at the same time asking how the fuck he knows that as if he has faced a true sith or knows the true nature and power of the darkside and this kid wasnt it.

[Kal-El814]

I mean at the end of the day two things are very well established.

 

1) Sith / Dark Side users are liars and rule breakers, taking the things they say literally or at face value doesn’t make a lot of sense

2) The Jedi absolutely fumble the bag when it comes to sensing the Dark Side Users / Sith to the point where some of them don’t believe they exist and others are in denial about them

 

I see a bunch of takes online going “you mean to tell me that the Jedi couldn’t sense a Sith / Dark Side user when one of them was right in front of them?”

 

 

Yes.

 

“You mean to tell me a Sith / Dark Side user could literally confess to a plan and their existence and the Jedi wouldn’t take it seriously enough?”

 

 

Yes.

[TheShader]

50 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

I mean at the end of the day two things are very well established.

 

1) Sith / Dark Side users are liars and rule breakers, taking the things they say literally or at face value doesn’t make a lot of sense

2) The Jedi absolutely fumble the bag when it comes to sensing the Dark Side Users / Sith to the point where some of them don’t believe they exist and others are in denial about them

 

I see a bunch of takes online going “you mean to tell me that the Jedi couldn’t sense a Sith / Dark Side user when one of them was right in front of them?”

 

 

Yes.

 

“You mean to tell me a Sith / Dark Side user could literally confess to a plan and their existence and the Jedi wouldn’t take it seriously enough?”

 

 

Yes.

Literally all of this, tbh. No notes. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Yeah, I also think the Jedi treat the Sith like puritanical Christians treat sex. If you don’t tell kids about it they won’t be curious and seek information about it and test their limits. 
 

the supposed reason they couldn’t sense Palpatine has seemingly been explained as two fold (one dumber than the other). He wasn’t using or drawing on the darkside. And the Jedi temple is apparently built on an ancient sith temple and so Palpatine used the innate darkside energy to slowly blind the jedi to the Darkside. Making it harder for them to see the darkside in the force and eventually see anything in the Force. I think they even mention this deterioration in their ability in Revenge of the Sith and mention they should tell the senate.  

[Kal-El814]

25 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Yeah, I also think the Jedi treat the Sith like puritanical Christians treat sex. If you don’t tell kids about it they won’t be curious and seek information about it and test their limits. 
 

the supposed reason they couldn’t sense Palpatine has seemingly been explained as two fold (one dumber than the other). He wasn’t using or drawing on the darkside. And the Jedi temple is apparently built on an ancient sith temple and so Palpatine used the innate darkside energy to slowly blind the jedi to the Darkside. Making it harder for them to see the darkside in the force and eventually see anything in the Force. I think they even mention this deterioration in their ability in Revenge of the Sith and mention they should tell the senate.  

 

Yeah, this is one of those things that I don’t think warrants an explanation beyond the characters stating “hey we have trouble detecting the Dark Side.” Fans get so hung up on bullshit like Jar Jar Binks waving his hands meaning that he’s Sith Mind Tricking the whole Senate because Obi-Wan moved his hand to mind trick a Stormtrooper. Sometimes the rule of cool is enough, like when a Dark Sider can solo a squad of Jedi or get solo’d by a Jedi depending mainly on vibes and plot needs.

[TwinIon]

For a show that opened by killing off Trinity, maybe I shouldn't have been so surprised at all the killing, but I sure was. Yeah, those spare red-shirt Jedi were doomed, but I didn't think they'd kill off Jecki or Yord. The reveal of smileo ren wasn't a shock, but I don't think they held on to it too long. If he wasn't revealed this episode, it would have felt annoyingly obvious, but this seemed like the right place. 

 

I was slightly worried at the beginning that they'd skip over the fighting, but they sure resolved that. The fighting was excellent. Lots of nifty lightsaber and force moves, some good improvisation with the helmet, and some brutal finishing moves. 

 

I just hope this show doesn't lose all momentum after this. The "twins switching places" thing has the potential to be pretty stupid, but it doesn't seem like anyone is actually fooled by it, so I guess we'll see.

[GeneticBlueprint]

19 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

I just hope this show doesn't lose all momentum after this. The "twins switching places" thing has the potential to be pretty stupid, but it doesn't seem like anyone is actually fooled by it, so I guess we'll see.

 

Plus House of the Dragon already did it. I love how Osha's cheap and not-at-all real looking tattoo is the differentiator here. Very on brand for this show.

 

I honestly don't care about the origin of Smileo Ren. Or, the mechanics of it I guess. I didn't care Snoke's origin, nor about Emperor Palpatine's origin. Actually, in the sequel trilogy one of the things that made the last movie really, really bad was going into Palpatine's origins and bunch of shit that happened off screen. So I really hope all the talk about his origin ends up being moot and unanswered in this show as well because very few shows do those kinds of things without creating other problems in storylines when they're doing stuff that happens before the first established timeline.

 

But yeah those lightsaber fights were pretty freaking cool. It did start getting old when like the tenth lightsaber got momentarily disabled for the 12th time. But other than that it was all very thrilling to watch.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

The combat coordinator definitely earned their pay with that episode!

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

I do wonder if the helmet is some kind of sith artifact as he seemed to imply keeping the helmet on kept the Jedi out of his head. Like Magneto’s helmet keeps Professor Xavier out of his head. Ancient sith lords leaving an imprint of their soul essentially on an item is not uncommon and even established in the canon comics. 
 

anyways, just nerd stuff. I agree that I do not think we need to know this guy’s back story in this show. They can put it in a comic for those that need it. 

[TheShader]

4 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

I do wonder if the helmet is some kind of sith artifact as he seemed to imply keeping the helmet on kept the Jedi out of his head. Like Magneto’s helmet keeps Professor Xavier out of his head. Ancient sith lords leaving an imprint of their soul essentially on an item is not uncommon and even established in the canon comics. 
 

anyways, just nerd stuff. I agree that I do not think we need to know this guy’s back story in this show. They can put it in a comic for those that need it. 

I assumed the helmet was basically homemade. I have no backing for this assumption other than how janky the helmet is (I mean that affectionately, I've grown to really like how raw the mask looks). 

 

My thought is I think it's possibly an explanation why helmets are so popular among Sith, because the intention (probably with the proper materials) is they can keep Force users from delving into their minds like Kylo is capable of. 

[Greatoneshere]

This episode was a step up in the action department, which was nice, though all the fogginess and mist sort of diluted things a little. It was super badass to have the helmet be made of that special metal that short circuits lightsabers for a time, definitely made for a more dynamic and interesting fight than we usually get. And Manny Jacinto as faux Sith master did a great job switching from his The Good Place buffoon persona to something far more deadly and serious.

 

That being said, at less than half an hour for the episode and most of it dedicated to a lot of good (but sometimes aimless) fighting, I got bored quickly hoping more would happen. I was absolutely surprised at the brutal kills of Jecki and Yord, but at the same time when your season is only 8 episodes and you've only established 7 characters with any actual personality (Mae, Osha, Sol, Jecki, Yord, Qimir and Vernestra), killing off two of them doesn't seem like a good move story-wise. The cast that's left will now have to carry the final three episodes of the show because we don't have the time now to establish anyone new with any depth and I felt like Jecki and Yord could have become more interesting but whatever stuff was hinted at before in terms of character is now over. Also, a nitpick, but Sol somehow missed the smell of Mae's burnt hair or the white spiral tattoo on her forehead peaking through her hair? We also never got a good explanation of why Mae suddenly did a heel turn last episode and then does another one here where she's now a third party wild card. Her motivations are all over the place. I assume it will come up later but why was Sith master guy making Mae kill one of the Jedi without any sort of weapon? Seems weird, they brought it up a lot and she never did it, so I imagine it's going to come back at some point? 

 

Overall, this was probably the best episode of the show yet, but at the same time, that isn't saying much. As for all the "why can't Sol sense that's Mae and not Osha through the Force, etc.", that sort of thing is silly since the Force matters when the plot needs it to matter. Plenty of other nits to pick if one wanted to instead of magical mumbo jumbo. 

[legend]

I enjoyed this one! Mostly just for the fun of the action that actually had some stakes, and little bit because I enjoyed Jacinto's performance who was clearly having fun with it, but hey, that's a big part of the fun of Star Wars!

[Greatoneshere]

48 minutes ago, legend said:

I enjoyed this one! Mostly just for the fun of the action that actually had some stakes, and little bit because I enjoyed Jacinto's performance who was clearly having fun with it, but hey, that's a big part of the fun of Star Wars!

 

I wish all the actors had as much life in them as Jacinto's performance has had. I get Jedi are monks and stoic but that doesn't mean wooden or dead inside acting wise. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

yeah he has been fun to watch. Though I was getting bored with him holding a lightsaber to Mae’s head. After him dispatching with others so very quickly and ruthlessly it was just obvious he wasn’t going to ignite it through her head. And it kind of undermined him a bit. I’m not saying he should have killed her. I’m just saying don’t bother with the obvious fake tension by not putting her in that exact situation. 
 

13 hours ago, TheShader said:

I assumed the helmet was basically homemade. I have no backing for this assumption other than how janky the helmet is (I mean that affectionately, I've grown to really like how raw the mask looks). 

 

My thought is I think it's possibly an explanation why helmets are so popular among Sith, because the intention (probably with the proper materials) is they can keep Force users from delving into their minds like Kylo is capable of. 

 

yeah I kind of dig the broken, jank look that gave it a sinister grin. It has this man of the wilds kind of vibe to it. It kind of makes me wish we had an episode where he was this slenderman like figure seemingly hunting the Jedi in the woods, where some would have seen glimpses of him. Maybe even picked off one or two without the others seeing before the confrontation. 
 

also I’m not so so sure that a basic helmet protects on from force mind probing. Unless mind probing is vastly different than regular jedi mind tricks that work on mandalorians, clones, storm troopers, and anyone else in a helmet. Which seems arbitrary if that is the case as we have seen where a force mind probing doesnt even need eye contact with the individual. So, I don’t think that’s where they were going with it. And if it doesn’t work against a regular helmet shouldn’t it be both ways? Yord said it felt like he was in his head. But who knows. The Force works as the plot needs it to, not as characters meed it to. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Oh Shit! I just discovered Darth Smileous is Jason from The Good Place. I thought he looked familiar and I couldn’t place it. 

[TheShader]

53 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Oh Shit! I just discovered Darth Smileous is Jason from The Good Place. I thought he looked familiar and I couldn’t place it. 

How do you not recognize that goofy lil man from Jacksonville!? I like that he has the opposite arc in this than Good Place. He starts off as Jason and then becomes the very serious character. 

[Greatoneshere]

13 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Oh Shit! I just discovered Darth Smileous is Jason from The Good Place. I thought he looked familiar and I couldn’t place it. 

 

I said as much in my earlier post two posts above yours - confirmed you don't read my posts.  

[TheShader]

2 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I said as much in my earlier post two posts above yours - confirmed you don't read my posts.  

I'm curious what he thought I meant when I referred to him as Darth Bortles as he apparently didn't question the odd nickname I gave him. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

3 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I said as much in my earlier post two posts above yours - confirmed you don't read my posts.  

lol it didn’t register until I looked him up and saw the image of the show under his filmography. By bad. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Look it has been like 5 years since I watched the series finale of The Good Place. 

[TheShader]

3 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Look it has been like 5 years since I watched the series finale of The Good Place. 

[Kal-El814]

Darth Bortles >>>>>>>> Smilo Ren 

[TheShader]

1 minute ago, Kal-El814 said:

Darth Bortles >>>>>>>> Smilo Ren 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

the humor may not be for everyone. The series seemed to start out of making a bit of fun at people in Disney era star wars not dying from being stabbed by a lightsaber. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

By far the best episode of the series.

 

I'm don't mean to look a gift horse in the mouth -- but wouldn't this series have been much better if all of the action was better dispersed?

 

The narrative problems still persisted in this episode, but I guess we're just going to have to accept that this is potentially going to have the least cohesive plot of the entire Star Wars history.  At least JJ recognized his narrative problems in TROS and used mcguffins to try and mask them. 

 

1)  I guess we now understand why there was no effort to make memorable characters.  They were all going to die anyways.  It also means there was no emotional impact when they died.

2)  So, there's a metal that can turn off lightsabres?  One would think this would have been used later in the timeline for armour.

3)  Why kill all the red shirts in an obscured battle?  If the thought was it would increase the mystery; it didn't.

4)  Why was a Padawan able to do better than a trio of full Jedi in battle?

5)  Sol not finishing Darth Smiley when he has the chance makes zero sense.  Darth Smiley's battle with the beetles even less.

 

But enjoyed the choreography of the combat!

[Kal-El814]

3 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

By far the best episode of the series.

 

I'm don't mean to look a gift horse in the mouth -- but wouldn't this series have been much better if all of the action was better dispersed?

 

The narrative problems still persisted in this episode, but I guess we're just going to have to accept that this is potentially going to have the least cohesive plot of the entire Star Wars history.  At least JJ recognized his narrative problems in TROS and used mcguffins to try and mask them. 

 

1)  I guess we now understand why there was no effort to make memorable characters.  They were all going to die anyways.  It also means there was no emotional impact when they died.

2)  So, there's a metal that can turn off lightsabres?  One would think this would have been used later in the timeline for armour.

3)  Why kill all the red shirts in an obscured battle?  If the thought was it would increase the mystery; it didn't.

4)  Why was a Padawan able to do better than a trio of full Jedi in battle?

5)  Sol not finishing Darth Smiley when he has the chance makes zero sense.  Darth Smiley's battle with the beetles even less.

 

But enjoyed the choreography of the combat!

 

1) I thought the non redshirt deaths were both unexpected and impactful? I don't get the notion that they're not trying to make memorable characters

2) Oh my god

3) Who knows I've got nothing olo

4) Obi-Wan killed Maul after Maul killed Qui-Gon, this is just a thing that happens in Star Wars

5) Indiana? Let it go

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

15 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

2)  So, there's a metal that can turn off lightsabres?  One would think this would have been used later in the timeline for armour.

Yeah I never hard of it, but luckily the nerds have been all over this. Apparently it is a metal that has been in Star Wars since legends and was relatively recently brought into canon in some comics. It is called Cortosis. It is very, very rare, very dangerous and hard to mine. Has to be refined so it isn’t fatal to the wearer. And it is a very brittle metal making it very situational in what scenarios it can be used. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

2 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Yeah I never hard of it, but luckily the nerds have been all over this. Apparently it is a metal that has been in Star Wars since legends and was relatively recently brought into canon in some comics. It is called Cortosis. It is very, very rare, very dangerous and hard to mine. Has to be refined so it isn’t fatal to the wearer. And it is a very brittle metal making it very situational in what scenarios it can be used. 

I just Googled it.  Apparently a sword was once made of it in one book, and it would shut off a light sabre briefly, but the sword would also be cut through.  That didn't happen with this helmet.

If armour could be made that reacted like this helmet, one would think it would have become very valuable.  And Sith would have used it for their armour.

 

At some point I just have to shut my brain off to the story, accept that the showrunners assumes we're morons, and just try to enjoy the action.

[Kal-El814]

4 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I just Googled it.  Apparently a sword was once made of it in one book, and it would shut off a light sabre briefly, but the sword would also be cut through.  That didn't happen with this helmet.

If armour could be made that reacted like this helmet, one would think it would have become very valuable.  And Sith would have used it for their armour.

 

At some point I just have to shut my brain off to the story, accept that the showrunners assumes we're morons, and just try to enjoy the action.

Again this is the franchise where  Mandalorians wear beskar armor which deflects almost all blaster fire, the de facto projectile weapon / ammo of choice. The Empire knows this and decided to sack Mandalore and not mine it or make any use of it at all until Moff Gideon. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Maybe I will be in the minority here, but that was a bad episode. I don’t know if it was the app or what, but this episode was the first that also felt like somebody turned smooth motion on for my tv, and I didn’t like it. But even without that the framing of scenes was meh, the dialog was meh, and wtf took the life out of Qimir? Everyone’s acting was kind of bad, but he felt like the most disappointing. This episode also felt full of padding and filler. 
 

So, some shows in this era of streaming mini-series length seasons have been accused of this, but I think Acolyte is actually an example of where they filmed essentially a long movie and then cut it up in to episodes regardless of if the pacing worked or not. And they did it to meet an episode count. 
 

edit: ok it was definitely a setting on my tv that got turned or something. I had to turn TruMotion off. I don’t know why that turned on between last week and today, unless my tv had some kind of update that turned it on. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Also, this may seem like a nit pick to some, but I do not like the chunky lightsabers and blades in the tv shows. I really miss the sleek, elegant, and more compact look of the movie hilts and blades. By comparison everyone in the shows looks like they are wielding cosplay toy lightsabers. They looked off when Ahsoka appeared in Mandalorian season 2 and have not looked right in a single show yet.