2024 Formula 1 Season. It’s Lights Out and Away We Go!

[AbsolutSurgen]

12 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Yeah it was 2005. The regulation existed even then. So is that the line, piece hanging off? Or a piece came off? 
 

Lando was wrestling with the car moving around through turns 6-7. That got dangerous. If somebody has hit Lando here would he have gotten a penalty? I would imagine yes. So again, why is this so different? He has very little control of the car and is shedding and throwing carbon fiber pieces, but it’s because of a destroyed tire, so it is ok? 
 

the regulations are so broad and general that you can penalize or forgive almost anything. 

You'll have to ask the stewards the distinction.  For Sergio, the entire wing was crushed, with the entire right section that connected the wing to the car flapping around (and eventually detached).

 

For as long as I can remember cars have always been allowed to circulate with a punctured tire.  It happens multiple times each season.  Same thing with damaged front wings, which can be easily replaced in ~30 seconds at a pit stop.  Since they normally can be quickly reparied, and the car sent out again.

 

If you're wondering the "why" of things, you'll need to ask the FIA for all of the reasons why they were set that way.

[AbsolutSurgen]

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Now that I’ve seen it myself I agree with Peter Windsor. The first move in that clip was Max moving … toward the apex. Was he supposed to wait his turn for lando to go by before turning right? Lando isn’t along side, he isn’t entitled to the inside line yet. It may have been a slightly unorthodox line turning in a little earlier. Alonso in the 2023 Brazilian GP drives unorthodox lines to block Perez and it is absolutely brilliant. Max does it and it’s moving while breaking? 
 

well, I don’t mean to get technical, but technically nearly all proper cornering in F1 and any other racing league is moving while breaking. That is what trail breaking is. What Max didn’t do was move under heavy breaking. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

Ferrari supersub Oliver Bearman to join Haas for 2025 F1 season - ESPN

WWW.ESPN.CO.UK

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Teenager Oliver Bearman, who made his F1 debut for Ferrari at this year's Saudi Arabian Grand Prix, will race for Haas in 2025 and beyond.

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

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But with the opposite having taken place, and Perez’s current dip now looking worse with no need to save his seat, it has inevitably prompted some suggestions that Red Bull should have waited longer before locking itself in.

Horner was pushed himself on that topic and gave an interesting response about having potentially gone to early in signing Perez.

“I think that Checo’s position within the team and what he has contributed to the team has warranted that [new contract] but of course there is always pressure to perform - and that is irrelevant of contracts which we are obviously never going to go into the detail of," he said.

The reference to the contract is intriguing because it is almost certain that Red Bull will have given itself some kind of insurance policy – a performance-related clause in the contract that will allow it an escape route if things do not work out with Perez.

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Assuming RBR doesn’t decide it’s time to kick Perez to the curb, how many open seats for 2025 are left? Williams, Alpine, Mercedes each have 1 seat not locked down, right? Anyone else?

[AbsolutSurgen]

Alpine -- Gasly, 1 open

Aston Martin -- Alonso, Stroll

Haas - Bearman, 1 open

Ferrari -- Leclerc, Hamilton

McLaren -- Norris, Piastri

Mercedes -- Russell, 1 open

Red Bull Racing -- Verstappen, Perez

Sauber -- Hulkenberg, 1 open

VCARB -- Tsunoda, 1 open

Williams -- Albon, 1 open

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

A shame about Verstappen’s floor damage in Q1. I would have liked to see a real benchmark of Max’s pace relative to the others.  But provided they have a replacement floor we could see a good battle at the front. 
 

I expected Mercedes to be faster, but I didn’t expect ‘front row lockout’ faster. So, will Max and Lando come together in lap 1 allowing Mercedes to fuck off into the distance for a 1, 2 finish? I hope not, because I want the chaos of all four cars catching each other, racing side by side and trading positions for much of the race. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

Wow. 
Hulkenberg in 6th?  How have the Haas improved that much?

Perez continues to be himself and qualifies on the back row. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

6 hours ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Wow. 
Hulkenberg in 6th?  How have the Haas improved that much?

Perez continues to be himself and qualifies on the back row. 

the fastest Ferrari engine isn’t even in a Ferrari. lol 

 

But yeah, is Hulk and that HAAS good enough to guarantee points now? Austria and now quali at Silverstone? Woah!

 

that head shake by Horner, I hope this means RBR finally replaces him. He’s not getting better and even if he has a few good weekends he’s already showing he can’t be consistently good. RBR may not need a driver who can challenge and push Max, but they need one that can be close enough to Max to strategize. 
 

though I’d trade Perez staying in that car if Lance Stroll would get kicked out of F1. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

I don't understand the Stroll hate.  A significant portion of who gets to drive in Motor Racing is based on the sponsorship the driver brings.  This has always been part of F1, and probably always will be.  

 

Ans Stroll isn't that bad.  He has outqualified Alonso 5 times this year.  You know who hasn't been able to outqualify their teammate 5 times?  Perez (0), Sargeant (0), Hamilton (2), Sainz (4), Piastri (2), Gasly (4), Ricciardo (3), Zhou Guanyu (1), Magnussen (3).

 

It is not a coincidence that both of the French racing drivers on the F1 grid drive for a French owned team.

[AbsolutSurgen]

Lando is driving brilliantly.

[AbsolutSurgen]

McLaren strategy calls have been terrible.  Verstappen, Hamilton and Sainz have all had better calls from their team.

[AbsolutSurgen]

Brutal.  If McLaren pits Norris a lap earlier, and puts on Medium tires -- he wins that race.

RBR gets the strategy perfect for Verstappen.

Hamilton drove an amazing race.

Perez finishes 2 laps down -- I hope for his sake, that RBR turned that into a test session for the last part of the race.

Aston Martin gets their best result in ages.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Max looked to have no pace or answer to Merc and McLaren and then the hard tires went on. Holy shit. I was hoping to see Lando and Max fighting longer, but the grip and speed difference was too great in Max’s favor. 
 

Hamilton finally gets another win and at his home race. The rain really made this race interesting and what fun! 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

I don't understand the Stroll hate.  A significant portion of who gets to drive in Motor Racing is based on the sponsorship the driver brings.  This has always been part of F1, and probably always will be.  

 

Ans Stroll isn't that bad.  He has outqualified Alonso 5 times this year.  You know who hasn't been able to outqualify their teammate 5 times?  Perez (0), Sargeant (0), Hamilton (2), Sainz (4), Piastri (2), Gasly (4), Ricciardo (3), Zhou Guanyu (1), Magnussen (3).

 

It is not a coincidence that both of the French racing drivers on the F1 grid drive for a French owned team.

 

 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

3 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Brutal.  If McLaren pits Norris a lap earlier, and puts on Medium tires -- he wins that race.

RBR gets the strategy perfect for Verstappen.

Hamilton drove an amazing race.

Perez finishes 2 laps down -- I hope for his sake, that RBR turned that into a test session for the last part of the race.

Aston Martin gets their best result in ages.

I think the bet was that the track was just wet enough the softs would last longer and even the mediums wouldn’t find grip soon enough on the drying track. But the track dried too quickly for them. 
 

yeah it seemed pretty obvious that RBR was using perez as a test for strategy for Max. It’s all he’s good for if he is going to be that far down the grid. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

You don't beat Alonso in qualifying if you don't deserve to be in F1.

I'm not saying he is as good as the top drivers, because he clearly isn't.  But he is far from the worst driver on the grid.

[AbsolutSurgen]

1 minute ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

I think the bet was that the track was just wet enough the softs would last longer and even the mediums wouldn’t find grip soon enough on the drying track. But the track dried too quickly for them. 

They got it right for Piastri.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

1 minute ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

You don't beat Alonso in qualifying if you don't deserve to be in F1.

I'm not saying he is as good as the top drivers, because he clearly isn't.  But he is far from the worst driver on the grid.

they can’t guarantee me Stroll doesn’t get all upgrades before Alonso. This has always been a vanity project, so the team will choose to help Stroll over Alonso if they’re only able to help one instead of both. Unlike Alonso he’s not driver enough to capitalize and make the best of those advantages. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

5 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

They got it right for Piastri.

Apparently Piastri told them he wanted the Mediums. Lando made the call to go softs to try and cover Hamilton. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

I do think it’s clear that Red Bull was only the third fastest car this weekend. Max was looking like a 4th or 5th place finish. 
 

Championship battle back on??

[AbsolutSurgen]

16 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

they can’t guarantee me Stroll doesn’t get all upgrades before Alonso. This has always been a vanity project, so the team will choose to help Stroll over Alonso if they’re only able to help one instead of both. Unlike Alonso he’s not driver enough to capitalize and make the best of those advantages. 

Alonso is still one of the best drivers on the grid.

There are only so many Lando Norris's, Max Verstappens and George Russells in this world.

If drivers like Ocon, Zho and Sargeant can keep an F1 drive -- I have no issue with Stroll keeping his.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

1 minute ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

If drivers like Ocon, Zho and Sargeant can keep an F1 drive -- I have no issue with Stroll keeping his.

well I don’t think they should keep their seat. Sargeant and Zho should have been gone last season. So, can I think Stroll doesn’t deserve his seat either?  

 

I think the world of racing will seem like there are so much fewer talents like Max, Lando, George, Piastri if we never get rid of shit F1 drivers and give others a chance. I mean, shit Bearman is 14th in the driver’s championship with less than 4 hours of driving time in that car. Thankfully he is finally getting a chance. Piastri is now 5th in the WDC in his second year.  The drivers are out there, but for one reason or another teams aren’t always willing to try and find that next great talent, even if their current driver(s) are wasting the potential of the car. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

Kimi Antonelli  (17) and Oli Bearman (19) are most likely going to be both in F1 next year. Who else do you think is ready for an F1 seat and will be faster than Stroll?

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

1 hour ago, AbsolutSurgen said:

Kimi Antonelli  (17) and Oli Bearman (19) are most likely going to be both in F1 next year. Who else do you think is ready for an F1 seat and will be faster than Stroll?

Liam Lawson. I don’t pay too much attention to F2 and other feeder series, but I’ve heard other names floated too. 
 

I don’t think the talent pool is as shallow as it may appear. I think teams too often gatekeep with this idea that a bad driver in an F1 car is better than a rookie driver in an F1. Which just feels to undermine and hurt the sport. 

[AbsolutSurgen]

16 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

Liam Lawson. I don’t pay too much attention to F2 and other feeder series, but I’ve heard other names floated too. 
 

I don’t think the talent pool is as shallow as it may appear. I think teams too often gatekeep with this idea that a bad driver in an F1 car is better than a rookie driver in an F1. Which just feels to undermine and hurt the sport. 

Liam Lawson is the reserve driver at RBR. They know how fast he is, and had the opportunity to have him replace Perez next year and/or replace Ricciardo at VCARB. 
 

Stroll isn’t a bad driver like Latiffi or Mazepin were. Nor is he bad like Zhou and Sargent are. And he has even driven better than Ricciardo and Perez have and probably even Magnussen. 
 

People don’t like him because he is the son of a billionaire. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

When he an Perez were on the same team Perez wiped the floor with him. The issue isn’t that he’s the son of a billionaire. It’s that being the son of a billionaire is the only reason he’s made it for this long, because daddy owning the team makes him impossible to fire. We mock Perez for being miles behind Max, but Stroll was miles behind Alonso last season when the car was comparatively more competitive. Building a good car around him is pointless, because he can’t drive it well enough. Allowing Lance to drive is more important than being competitive. 
 

Lando’s parents may not be billionaires, but they are very wealthy. But Lando consistently shows he is talented enough to be in F1. Nobody feels Lando is a spoiled rich kid. 

 

[AbsolutSurgen]

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Sources have suggested that Red Bull has the right to terminate Perez’s contract if he falls more than 100 points behind Verstappen at key points of the championship – which are the summer break and the end of the season.

Right now, after another non-score at Silverstone, he is 137 points adrift and has just two races to get himself within that 100 points range if he is not to expose him to the risk of Red Bull electing to look at other options.

If the sources are correct, RBR would be able to drop Perez at mid-season, and most likely revisit the decision at season-end as well.

[TwinIon]

Another great race and another outcome that I'm very happy with. Seeing Lewis win again, breaking another record, and doing it at Silverstone was special. Yeah, without floor damage Max could have started higher, and yeah, Mclaren strategists made bad calls for both drivers, but none of that should take away from the fact that Mercedes was legitimately fast this weekend.

 

I'm honestly kind of shocked how quickly we went from utter Max domination to having different drivers and teams fighting on pace. Max remains the constant, and I still have a hard time imagining him losing the championship, but he's not going to be able to cruise to many more easy victories. It's turning into a really great season.

 

I didn't think Perez still deserved his seat, but I wasn't too bummed that he was keeping it because I didn't want to see any more RBR dominance. If Perez was as effective a number 2 as Bottas was to Hamiltion, it would have made things even less competitive at the top. Now that Red Bull aren't always the fastest car, it might actually be more exciting to give Max a competitive number 2.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

Yeah the thing was last year that Perez fighting in the midfield wasn’t as big a deal, because Max was smoothly taking both championships all by himself. RBR could always afford to let Perez flounder so long as Max and the WCC aren’t under threat. Perez has only scored 14 points combined from the last 6 races. 

 

If the issue is the car’s characteristics are bad for him, even more reason to get him out of that car. Unless they have compelling simulator data that shows Lawson, Ricciardo, Tsunoda, or whoever else would do worse and the car is near underivable for anyone but Max I really don’t get the hesitation. They were so quick to yank de Vries out of the Alphatauri. 

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

So here’s a question. In the past F1 has been referred to by fans as having Formula A and Formula B. Is HAAS formula A now since hulk can now get 6th and out qualify Ferrari, or does Formula A only consist of Mercedes, McLaren, and Max Verstappen? 

 

lol

[TwinIon]

25 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

So here’s a question. In the past F1 has been referred to by fans as having Formula A and Formula B. Is HAAS formula A now since hulk can now get 6th and out qualify Ferrari, or does Formula A only consist of Mercedes, McLaren, and Max Verstappen? 

 

lol

Formula 1 is Red Bull, Mercedes, McLaren, and Ferrari. Everyone else is Formula 1.5.

 

The F1.5 subreddit has a whole process and rules for what they classify as F1.5. Personally, I think it's based on the team and the car and I draw the line at "can plausibly win a race on pace this season." So Perez gets to be in F1, because he has that opportunity, he's just not performing well enough to be anywhere close. Hulkenberg is the opposite. He's outqualifying plenty of F1 cars, but there just isn't a plausible way for him to win a race on pace, so I put him in F1.5 or Formula B or whatever.

[Spawn_of_Apathy]

26 minutes ago, TwinIon said:

Formula 1 is Red Bull, Mercedes, McLaren, and Ferrari. Everyone else is Formula 1.5.

 

The F1.5 subreddit has a whole process and rules for what they classify as F1.5. Personally, I think it's based on the team and the car and I draw the line at "can plausibly win a race on pace this season." So Perez gets to be in F1, because he has that opportunity, he's just not performing well enough to be anywhere close. Hulkenberg is the opposite. He's outqualifying plenty of F1 cars, but there just isn't a plausible way for him to win a race on pace, so I put him in F1.5 or Formula B or whatever.

hmm, then last season only Redbull was F1? lol 
 

The way I had seen people use the terms I figured it was based on who’s car was fast enough to regularly finish in the points as Aston last season and early this season I heard often referred to as Formula 1. I guess it was if you were only likely to get points if somebody DNFd, then your car was in Formula B. 

[TwinIon]

17 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said:

hmm, then last season only Redbull was F1? lol 
 

The way I had seen people use the terms I figured it was based on who’s car was fast enough to regularly finish in the points as Aston last season and early this season I heard often referred to as Formula 1. I guess it was if you were only likely to get points if somebody DNFd, then your car was in Formula B. 

I don't think there's a standard way to think about something that is inherently tongue-in-cheek, but I feel like if you're not in F1 with a chance to win, you're playing a different game. You see it every once in a while when someone has a great quali session in a midfield car and they're still only worried about the cars behind them.