Brick Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 8 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Considering what actually happened on the set of that film... 👀IYKYK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 23 minutes ago, Brick said: 👀IYKYK Quoi? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 30 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Quoi? "If you know you know" Not everyone might get what you are referencing, but if they do, well that's a pretty good moment you brought up lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 Alaska Air says loose hardware found on some of its 737 MAX 9 fleet (Reuters) Quote Alaska Air (ALK.N) said on Monday its technicians found some loose hardware in the door plug area on some of its Boeing 737 MAX 9 fleet. U.S. regulators grounded 171 MAX 9 planes after a door plug panel blew off an Alaska Airlines-operated flight not long after taking off from a Portland, Oregon, airport on Friday, forcing pilots to scramble to land the plane safely. "As our maintenance technicians began preparing our 737-9 MAX fleet for inspections, they accessed the area in question," Alaska Air said, referring to the door plug panel area. "Initial reports from our technicians indicate some loose hardware was visible on some aircraft." Earlier in the day, United Airlines (UAL.O) said it had found loose bolts on multiple grounded MAX 9 aircraft, raising new concerns among industry experts about how its best-selling jet family is manufactured. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 40 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Alaska Air says loose hardware found on some of its 737 MAX 9 fleet (Reuters) This is what I was thinking happened, someone didn't properly bolt it in.. but it seems like the problem is in the assembly line not one door someone forgot about because of their coffee break. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unogueen Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: This is what I was thinking happened, someone didn't properly bolt it in.. but it seems like the problem is in the assembly line not one door someone forgot about because of their coffee break. Shouldn't that shit be welded down? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokra Posted January 9 Share Posted January 9 2 hours ago, unogueen said: Shouldn't that shit be welded down? It's not a "permanent" door. It's called a "plug door" and it's only semi-permanently installed on planes when their carrying capacity is planned to be less than the plane's maximum. Edit - To be clear, I'm guessing most of us haven't heard of a "plug door" except for maybe @Pretzel, but that was probably something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 "Whoops! Our bad!" ‘Every detail matters:’ Boeing CEO admits mistake as investigators probe midair panel blowout WWW.CNBC.COM The Federal Aviation Administration grounded the 737 Max 9s less than a day after the incident on Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 so the jets could be inspected. Quote Boeing CEO Dave Calhoun on Tuesday said the company acknowledges “our mistake,” after a door plug on a 737 Max 9 blew out in the middle of an Alaska Airlines flight, creating a gaping hole in the fuselage and prompting a grounding of that aircraft type by federal regulations. The Federal Aviation Administration grounded the 737 Max 9s less than a day after the incident on Alaska Airlines Flight 1282 so the jets could be inspected. The more common 737 Max 8 was not affected. “When I got that picture [of the Alaska Airlines 737 Max 9], all I could think about — I didn’t know what happened [to] whoever was supposed to be in the seat next to that hole in the airplane,” Calhoun told staff, according to remarks shared by Boeing. “I’ve got kids, I’ve got grandkids and so do you. This stuff matters. Every detail matters.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 "Every detail matters" to Boeing execs... especially rushing planes to market when Airbus is eating their lunch. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastlevaniaNut18 Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 Just booked a flight to Atlanta in April and it’s a 737-900. I should be safe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 1 hour ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said: Just booked a flight to Atlanta in April and it’s a 737-900. I should be safe. Plenty of time for an equipment swap to happen. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted January 10 Author Share Posted January 10 I'm flying to Montreal in April, but fortunately it's on a 737-800. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 2 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: I'm flying to Montreal in April, but fortunately it's on a 737-800. 23 minutes ago, Jason said: Plenty of time for an equipment swap to happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted January 10 Share Posted January 10 The safest time to fly is after an accident like this because everyone is going to go over the planes with a fine tooth comb. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted January 11 Share Posted January 11 FAA investigating if Boeing failed to ensure aircraft were safe for operation WWW.CNBC.COM Quote The Federal Aviation Administration on Thursday said it has informed Boeing it’s investigating whether the company “failed to ensure completed products conformed to its approved design and were in a condition for safe operation in compliance with FAA regulations.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawnguard2001 Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 What are they going to do Boeing this time? They already fined them 2.5 billion back in 2021 about lying to the FAA AEG about their Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) on the 737 Max. 20 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: FAA investigating if Boeing failed to ensure aircraft were safe for operation WWW.CNBC.COM I look forward to Boeing getting fined another 2.5 billion dollars and they just move on like they did the last time when Boeing was shown to be straight up lying to the FAA AEG about their Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS). Unless you drag the CEO out to a guillotine this crap is still going to keep happening with them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted January 12 Share Posted January 12 1 hour ago, Dawnguard2001 said: What are they going to do Boeing this time? They already fined them 2.5 billion back in 2021 about lying to the FAA AEG about their Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS) on the 737 Max. I look forward to Boeing getting fined another 2.5 billion dollars and they just move on like they did the last time when Boeing was shown to be straight up lying to the FAA AEG about their Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System (MCAS). Unless you drag the CEO out to a guillotine this crap is still going to keep happening with them. They're gonna "audit the production line"! FAA says it will audit Boeing's production line after 737 Max 9 accident WWW.CNBC.COM The FAA's announcement comes a week after a door plug blew out on an Alaska Airlines 737 Max 9. Quote The Federal Aviation Administration on Friday said it will audit Boeing’s production line, a week after a door plug blew off an Alaska Airlines 737 Max 9. The agency said it is considering using “an independent third party” to oversee Boeing inspections and quality of its manufacturing. The FAA grounded more than 170 Boeing 737 Max 9s, most of the world’s fleet, after that accident. The agency said the audit applies to Boeing’s production line for that plane model and its suppliers “to evaluate Boeing’s compliance with its approved quality procedures. “The results of the FAA’s audit analysis will determine whether additional audits are necessary,” said the agency. The FAA said it will also evaluate risks around Boeing’s ability to self-monitor quality control and other aspects of airplane production. The agency on Thursday announced an investigation into whether the manufacturer failed to ensure its planes were airworthy and conformed to their design. “The grounding of the 737-9 and the multiple production-related issues identified in recent years require us to look at every option to reduce risk,” FAA Administrator Mike Whitaker said in a statement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted January 13 Author Share Posted January 13 10 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: They're gonna "audit the production line"! FAA says it will audit Boeing's production line after 737 Max 9 accident WWW.CNBC.COM The FAA's announcement comes a week after a door plug blew out on an Alaska Airlines 737 Max 9. Big part here is that FAA is considering stripping Boeing of their right to conduct their own inspections. But...if you don't trust a company to do that, I don't think you can trust them to do anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted January 13 Share Posted January 13 1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said: Big part here is that FAA is considering stripping Boeing of their right to conduct their own inspections. But...if you don't trust a company to do that, I don't think you can trust them to do anything. These are common arrangements the FAA makes (that maybe they shouldn't). The production companies have agreements to institute an "independent" inspection regime to meet FAA standards. It's not fully independent, but so long as they follow protocol.... Which, of course they aren't. In this case, this should be rescinded and the FAA should devote inspectors to the Renton facility. Boeing can't have the independence it's used to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link200 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 1/6/2024 at 10:11 AM, Kal-El814 said: @Link200 have you ever flown a convertible? Not yet. I hope to keep it that way. Currently sticking with old Boeing products from when they were awesome. I honestly have zero desire to fly a 737. They should have been retired years ago but airlines like Southwest and Alaska push Boeing to just update them for their convenience and money savings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link200 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 On 1/6/2024 at 9:47 AM, CayceG said: 2. What Alice is tweeting about in the first article is something different. The issue here is a problem with the engine cowling deicing on the Max 7 and Max 10. The problem is that when the deicing is turned on during dry and non-icing conditions there can be higher than normal temperatures in the cowling. The worry is that these temps could cause material failure and potentially lead to pieces detaching. This has not been observed to have happened. 3. Boeing is working on a permanent fix to this but it will take time. In the interim is also proposing to the FAA a temporary change in operations to allow them to keep operating planes and provide a layer of safety to avoid high temps when the deicing system is operated in the wrong conditions. IMO what I find funny is that an easy fix is to automate the system to make such a failure less likely. Anti-ice is not automated at all on the 737 like it is in other aircraft. Even though the 737-MAX is "new" they do everything they can to standardize the aircraft with past versions. Walking into a brand new 737 is eerily similar to walking into one from the 1960s. Feel free to take a look at the differences. There is a lot of carry over. Time has allowed for some changes to the flight deck but they do everything they can to keep the flight deck the same. Boeing 737-100/200 "Original" Cockpit Poster - Printed COCKPITREVOLUTION.ECWID.COM This cockpit poster is of the Boeing 737-100/200 "Original" aircraft. Available as both printed and digital download versions. Boeing 737-7/8/9/10 MAX Cockpit Poster - Printed COCKPITREVOLUTION.ECWID.COM This cockpit poster is of the Boeing 737-7/8/9/10 MAX aircraft. Available as both printed and digital download versions. What is sad is that the 757/767 in many ways are more modern than a 737-Max. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 The 757 was a great airplane. RETVRN Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link200 Posted January 15 Share Posted January 15 43 minutes ago, CayceG said: The 757 was a great airplane. RETVRN It still is dammit! Except the -300. That is a pig. Then again, it carries a crap ton of people compared to other aircraft The -200 was built for me to fly. Boeing just didn't know it at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted January 23 Author Share Posted January 23 Alaska Airlines CEO: We found 'many' loose bolts on our Max 9 planes following near-disaster WWW.NBCNEWS.COM "I'm angry," Ben Minicucci said. "This happened to Alaska Airlines. It happened to our guests and happened to our people." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 I'm scheduled to fly on a MAX 9 in March 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted January 23 Share Posted January 23 On 1/15/2024 at 4:31 PM, Link200 said: IMO what I find funny is that an easy fix is to automate the system to make such a failure less likely. Anti-ice is not automated at all on the 737 like it is in other aircraft. Even though the 737-MAX is "new" they do everything they can to standardize the aircraft with past versions. Walking into a brand new 737 is eerily similar to walking into one from the 1960s. Feel free to take a look at the differences. There is a lot of carry over. Time has allowed for some changes to the flight deck but they do everything they can to keep the flight deck the same. Boeing 737-100/200 "Original" Cockpit Poster - Printed COCKPITREVOLUTION.ECWID.COM This cockpit poster is of the Boeing 737-100/200 "Original" aircraft. Available as both printed and digital download versions. Boeing 737-7/8/9/10 MAX Cockpit Poster - Printed COCKPITREVOLUTION.ECWID.COM This cockpit poster is of the Boeing 737-7/8/9/10 MAX aircraft. Available as both printed and digital download versions. What is sad is that the 757/767 in many ways are more modern than a 737-Max. So like, how much of this could theoretically be streamlined? Obviously airplanes are complex engineering systems, but computers and industrial design is pretty advanced in this day and age...If we threw all notions of safety or security out the window (including to the public writ large), could it be simplified to the point that literally anyone could fly it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 1 hour ago, Chris- said: So like, how much of this could theoretically be streamlined? Obviously airplanes are complex engineering systems, but computers and industrial design is pretty advanced in this day and age...If we threw all notions of safety or security out the window (including to the public writ large), could it be simplified to the point that literally anyone could fly it? I think there's some smaller private planes with automatic takeoff and landing systems floating around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unogueen Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 That would be the difference between a sedan and a semi. A semi with a lot of lives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Link200 Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 5 hours ago, Chris- said: So like, how much of this could theoretically be streamlined? Obviously airplanes are complex engineering systems, but computers and industrial design is pretty advanced in this day and age...If we threw all notions of safety or security out the window (including to the public writ large), could it be simplified to the point that literally anyone could fly it? If you throw everything out the window I am sure you could train an AI model to fly the plane. Would it be logical or safe? Not yet. I really don't see the current versions of AI taking over though. I have no idea how you could train an AI to deal with new scenarios and such. It would work for normal flight but every abnormal event is different to some extent. 4 hours ago, Jason said: I think there's some smaller private planes with automatic takeoff and landing systems floating around. Planes have had auto-land for a long time now. The system is prone to breaking and requires a ton of inputs to work at a safe level. It is actually one of the big reasons the 5G thing was such a big deal. I think auto-takeoff has been developed by Airbus but it still requires a pilot to make safety decisions. Also It really would just enable a very low visibility take-off which doesn't happen very often. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 Ai can't even handle old road markings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted January 24 Share Posted January 24 United Airlines is "rethinking" its order of 737 Max 10s. United CEO casts doubt on 737 Max 10 order after Boeing's recent problems WWW.CNBC.COM CEO Scott Kirby said the Max 9 grounding after a door plug blew on an Alaska Airlines flight is the "straw that broke the camel's back." Quote United Airlines is weighing fleet plans without the Boeing 737 Max 10 after a series of delays and most recently, the grounding of a smaller variant of the plane, the carrier’s CEO said Tuesday. The Max 10 is the largest model of the plane and hasn’t yet been certified by the Federal Aviation Administration. United CEO Scott Kirby said the plane is already “best case” about five years delayed and expressed frustration at Boeing for the most recent manufacturing problem in which a door plug blew out during an Alaska Airlines 737 Max 9 flight on Jan. 5, prompting the FAA to ground those planes. United has 79 of the 737 Max 9 aircraft in its fleet, more than any other carrier. The ongoing grounding will drive a first-quarter loss, the airline said Monday while reporting its fourth-quarter earnings. “I think the Max 9 grounding is probably the straw that broke the camel’s back for us,” Kirby said in an interview Tuesday on CNBC’s “Squawk Box.” “We’re going to at least build a plan that doesn’t have the Max 10 in it.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted January 25 Share Posted January 25 The fuselage component that failed was removed and reinstalled by Boeing mechanics at the Renton, WA plant. https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/boeing-not-spirit-mis-installed-piece-that-blew-off-alaska-max-9-jet/ Quote The fuselage panel that blew off an Alaska Airlines jet earlier this month was removed for repair then reinstalled improperly by Boeing mechanics on the Renton final assembly line, a person familiar with the details of the work told The Seattle Times. If verified by the National Transportation Safety Board investigation, this would leave Boeing primarily at fault for the accident, rather than its supplier Spirit AeroSystems, which originally installed the panel into the 737 MAX 9 fuselage in Wichita, Kan. Quote Last week, a different person — an anonymous whistleblower who appears to have access to Boeing’s manufacturing records of the work done assembling the specific Alaska Airlines jet that suffered the blowout — on an aviation website separately provided many additional details about how the door plug came to be removed and then mis-installed. “The reason the door blew off is stated in black and white in Boeing’s own records,” the whistleblower wrote. “It is also very, very stupid and speaks volumes about the quality culture at certain portions of the business.” The self-described Boeing insider said company records show four bolts that prevent the door plug from sliding up off the door frame stop pads that take the pressurization loads in flight, “were not installed when Boeing delivered the airplane.” the whistleblower stated. “Our own records reflect this.” Quote Before explaining what happened, the person states the motivation for posting it. Doing so, the whistleblower repeated complaints frequently offered by Boeing longtimers who contend the company's 1997 acquisition of competitor McDonnell Douglas undercut the Boeing's focus on quality. "There are many cultures at Boeing, and while the executive culture may be thoroughly compromised since we were bought by [McDonnell Douglas], there are many other people who still push for a quality product with cutting edge design," the whistleblower wrote. "My hope is that this is the wake up call that finally forces the Board to take decisive action, and remove the executives that are resisting the necessary cultural changes." Quote The whistleblower outlines how, because of a mistake, the removal and re-installation of the door plug in Renton was never entered in the computer system where every detail of the build process on each individual aircraft is recorded. As a result, no quality inspection was triggered. Ed Pierson, a former manager of the MAX production line and himself a whistleblower who raised concerns about quality control in Renton before the first MAX crash in Indonesia in 2018, said in an interview Monday the new account of the door plug mis-installation and the error in the recording of the work "is very consistent with what I saw in the factory personally." After reading the whistleblower account, he said "I think there is a very high probability this is accurate." "People, when they're pressured and rushed, they think, well, I'll catch up on the paperwork later," Pierson said. "Then it goes from shift to shift and you don't know if the next shift got it or not." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted January 25 Author Share Posted January 25 Oh yeah, Boeing is a prime example of the rot of executive leadership in America. It's 99% psychopaths whose main goal in life is to increase short-term profits in order to earn bonuses and additional power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 5 Share Posted February 5 Boeing finds problems with fuselages on its 737 jets in latest manufacturing issue WWW.NBCNEWS.COM The problem was discovered by an employee of the supplier of the fuselages who notified his manager that two holes might have not been drilled according to specifications, the Boeing... 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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