mclumber1 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 New Zealand scraps world-first smoking ‘generation ban’ to fund tax cuts | New Zealand | The Guardian WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM Health experts say axing plan to block sales of tobacco products to next generation will cost thousands of lives I'm not a smoker, and I don't like being around people who are smoking, but this is the right move. Their body, their choice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 54 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: I'm not a smoker, and I don't like being around people who are smoking, but this is the right move. Their body, their choice. Eh, to an extent. Maybe if you're home alone. If I'm smelling your smoke then it's most definitely not your body. And any kids of smokers will tell you they most definitely don't get a fuckin' say-so in breathing in that good shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 This makes you wonder why some drugs are illegal and others are not. Is it that they harm yourself or others? Cigarettes do both. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamer.tv Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 1 hour ago, mclumber1 said: New Zealand scraps world-first smoking ‘generation ban’ to fund tax cuts | New Zealand | The Guardian WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM Health experts say axing plan to block sales of tobacco products to next generation will cost thousands of lives I'm not a smoker, and I don't like being around people who are smoking, but this is the right move. Their body, their choice. This has been an argument in the UK with the Troy government mimicking this policy. Yes, your body, your choice…but the effects of smoking then use up resource in the NHS…which makes it slightly more conflicted. Though I suppose it’s the same as illness due to alcohol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsida Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 Sacrificing the next generation for tax cuts for the rich, of course. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokra Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 I guess I wouldn't care if they want to smoke privately (and nobody, especially children, has to be around it) if e.g. their premiums for insurance are also sky high. Otherwise, it seems to me like it's not just "their body, their choice", as everyone else has to compensate for their stupid choices. Am I completely wrong/ignorant in thinking this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 I'm Pro-Life when it comes to Cigarettes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 Smokers don't just affect themselves. They ruin the lives of their kids and affect whoever is around them. Every smoker smells like absolute shit and leaves that in their wake. Ever been in an elevator after a heavy smoker?? Jesus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 Chewing tobacco is more "my body my choice" than cigarettes are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 Endangering public health to fund tax cuts, libertarians o'er the world nutting hard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 Where is the line drawn? What about fatty fat people that eat shit and feed their kids shit? Oh so you want insurance to cover your type 2 diabetes meds, but you won't fix your diet? Too slippery a slope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that the leftists of this community want to control other people's actions and what others do with their own bodies. A bunch of hypocrites. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that the leftists of this community want to control other people's actions and what others do with their own bodies. A bunch of hypocrites. #TooWokeToSmoke 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 9 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: A bunch of hypocrites. I'm not seeing the problem here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 Just now, Commissar SFLUFAN said: I'm not seeing the problem here. It was never about a person having control over their own bodies. It was about exerting control over society. Leftists don't really care about freedom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 14 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: I'm disappointed, but not surprised, that the leftists of this community want to control other people's actions and what others do with their own bodies. A bunch of hypocrites. I lol'd 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 3 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: It was never about a person having control over their own bodies. It was about exerting control over society. Leftists don't really care about freedom. Again, not seeing the problem here! And for the record, if we're going to compare this to abortion, I'd like to reiterate once again that my "pro-abortion" position is largely predicated on the notion that I'm not particularly interested in society bearing the economic costs of unwanted pregnancies, a fairly "libertarian" argument if there ever was one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 8 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said: I lol'd Damn leftists telling people they can’t consume intoxicating substances and have unrestricted freedom of movement. So much for liberty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 5 minutes ago, TUFKAK said: Damn leftists telling people they can’t consume intoxicating substances and have unrestricted freedom of movement. So much for liberty. Firearm suicides "don't count" and even if they did they're fine because the framers said so, that's REAL liberty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 2 hours ago, Ominous said: Where is the line drawn? What about fatty fat people that eat shit and feed their kids shit? Oh so you want insurance to cover your type 2 diabetes meds, but you won't fix your diet? Too slippery a slope. Regulating diet is wildly complex. Regulating smoking is not. Also, it's at least possible for a parent to eat poorly themselves while giving their children a better diet. That's far less easy to do with smoking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 I have concerns about handing over a multi billion dollar business to criminals. I would rather us continue on a path of higher excise taxes, education, and smoking cessation products. A lot of these arguments can be used against legalizing marijuana. If one smokes marijuana in the home, there is potential harm to kids and others. The right way to go is to tax nicotine and THC products that can be smoked more than products that aren't. If the result of prohibiting tobacco products is people still smoking with a gray market, I would question whether the policy was optimal or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 2 hours ago, mclumber1 said: It was never about a person having control over their own bodies. It was about exerting control over society. Leftists don't really care about freedom. Your issue seems to be more about the slogan than anything else. The proper comparison to abortion rights is if they forced people to smoke. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 I’m okay with having “Freedom Smokes” that cost literally $2,000 a pack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 1 minute ago, stepee said: I’m okay with having “Freedom Smokes” that cost literally $2,000 a pack. Then you are fine with a black market, and they corresponding violence that it brings. ...did any of you pay attention to the negative consequences of alcohol prohibition or the war on drugs has been on society? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 1 minute ago, mclumber1 said: Then you are fine with a black market, and they corresponding violence that it brings. ...did any of you pay attention to the negative consequences of alcohol prohibition or the war on drugs has been on society? I mean, I could use a side gig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UpvoteShittyTakesOnly Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 2/10 effort here and that may be generous 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 1 hour ago, legend said: Regulating diet is wildly complex. Regulating smoking is not. Also, it's at least possible for a parent to eat poorly themselves while giving their children a better diet. That's far less easy to do with smoking. Even easier if you take Wegovy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 I’m actually okay for some nuance in the actual discussion (probably still some bias as it’s only been two years since I quit and mannnn did I love it!) but debate over smoking control wasn’t the point of this topic, it was to make the worlds worst abortion rights comparison. I’d take away more “freedom” and nuke the thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodger Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 I don't know how things are going in the rest of the world but here in freedom land, including Arizona where you can open carry to the grocery store, hardly anybody smokes anymore. So all those cheezy shitty commercials everyone laughed at must have had some effect, plus the high taxes and everything else. Smoking is seemingly almost a non issue anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 7 minutes ago, Dodger said: I don't know how things are going in the rest of the world but here in freedom land, including Arizona where you can open carry to the grocery store, hardly anybody smokes anymore. So all those cheezy shitty commercials everyone laughed at must have had some effect, plus the high taxes and everything else. Smoking is seemingly almost a non issue anymore. Smoking has gone down a lot even within the last 15 - 20 years, but it's still the leading cause of preventative disease in the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted November 27, 2023 Author Share Posted November 27, 2023 23 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said: Smoking has gone down a lot even within the last 15 - 20 years, but it's still the leading cause of preventative disease in the US. There's going to be a lagging effect of smoking related deaths as smoking decreases with younger populations. People will still die from smoking, but at a rate much smaller than now. Obesity and obesity related diseases are going to kill a heck of a lot more people in 20-30 years than smoking currently is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted November 27, 2023 Share Posted November 27, 2023 6 hours ago, mclumber1 said: It was never about a person having control over their own bodies. It was about exerting control over society. Leftists don't really care about freedom. Sure, but budgets to pay for healthcare are real and the choices are pay for a preventable condition or that rare disease treatment for a newborn. That's a choice that more and more is going to have to be made as super expensive low population treatments become more available. A Dilemma for Governments: How to Pay for Million-Dollar Therapies - The New York Times WWW.NYTIMES.COM A wave of transformative but hugely expensive treatments is challenging the budgets of health systems in wealthy nations. Now countries with far fewer resources are wrestling with how to cover the therapies. Quote The expenditures for Zolgensma have already gobbled up a hugely disproportionate share of resources. An analysis led by a researcher at Brazil’s drug regulator found that the court-ordered expenditures in Zolgensma’s first 14 months of availability in Brazil could have paid for more than four million doses of the Covid-19 vaccine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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