Spork3245 Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 16 minutes ago, Ominous said: I mean at what point is there a difference between bombing where you know civilians are, because you told them to go there, and just shooting them? I see no difference. Both sides suck. Both sides would Thanos the other side out of existence if they could. There is no good. There is no less bad. It's a fucked up situation that I suspect will never be resolved unless everyone comes to their right minds and realizes that killing over land or some made up religion(s) is insanity. Of all the penetration threads, this is the least enjoyable. On 10/28/2023 at 6:06 AM, Spork3245 said: That’s the thing, giving “full support” to either side in this forever-conflict only shows ignorance, IMO. Leaning towards one or the other is human nature, but understanding that there’s a huge grey area between that and full support is, (again) IMO, extremely important. But, to be clear about something: 17 minutes ago, Ominous said: Both sides suck. Neither side sucks enough that I’d make jokes about dead innocent civilians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ominous Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 Comedy is all that's left, and it's been that way since before I was born. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted December 18, 2023 Share Posted December 18, 2023 It was real funny when I couldn’t get a hold of my sister for nearly two days after those monsters murdered 1500 people. Bill Burr level 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted December 22, 2023 Share Posted December 22, 2023 How the White House convinced Israel to open another crossing for aid to enter Gaza APPLE.NEWS The Biden administration pressed Israel to allow more aid into the Palestinian enclave, but much more is needed to address the humanitarian crisis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unogueen Posted December 23, 2023 Share Posted December 23, 2023 Still sending bombs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 Aw shucks!! I hate CNNs basic bitch tone. With war raging in Gaza, Christmas is effectively canceled in Bethlehem | CNN WWW.CNN.COM Church bells echo through the labyrinth-like streets of Bethlehem. With Christmas approaching, the city in the Israeli-occupied West Bank should be teeming with visitors. But this year, it is almost deserted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 Israeli Evidence of Hamas Command Center in al-Shifa Hospital Falls Short: Report WWW.ROLLINGSTONE.COM A Washington Post investigation found no proof of a Hamas command center under al-Shifa Hospital following Israel’s attack on the medical complex. Quote LAST MONTH, THE world watched as a spectacle rarely seen in modern warfare unfolded in Gaza. The Israeli military tore through al-Shifa Hospital, the Gaza Strip’s main hospital, forcing the evacuation of patients and refugees as part of a siege on the medical complex that resulted in dozens of patient deaths and an untold number of additional casualties. Israel’s months-long assault on Gaza has already resulted in more than 20,000 Palestinian deaths since Oct. 7, many of them civilians and children. Even in a conflict as brutal as the one currently unfolding in Gaza, an organized military operation against a hospital is virtually unheard of. Israel for weeks had made public its preemptive justification for an incursion into a medical establishment that is typically protected under humanitarian law — asserting that al-Shifa contained a Hamas command center within a network of tunnels and secret rooms that used patients and doctors as human shields against Israeli military action. The Biden administration continues to back Israel’s position on the matter, and earlier this week reasserted their own claims of possessing “evidence that Hamas was operating underneath al-Shifa Hospital before Israel attacked.” On Monday, State Department spokesperson Matthew Miller told reporters in a press briefing that the U.S. remains “confident” that “Hamas was using al-Shifa as a command and control post, as it uses other civilian sites to hide terrorist infrastructure, to hide weapons, to hide fighters and ultimately to use civilians as human shields.” Quote Following the siege on al-Shifa, the Israeli government attempted to convince the world that the hospital held both the literal and figurative smoking guns which would prove its alleged connections to Hamas military operations. To justify such a brutal attack, one would expect there to have been clear, irrefutable evidence of Hamas’ presence and use of the complex, but aside from a handful of weapons and some paraphernalia, the findings have been lackluster. An analysis by The Washington Post of open-source materials and evidence provided by Israel in the aftermath of the attack found very little proof that the tunnels under al-Shifa led to a major Hamas command center. Quote It bears noting that Israel itself built some of the tunnels and rooms under al-Shifa in the 1980s, and their existence has been an open secret for decades. Following their incursion into the hospital, the Israeli Defense Forces (IDF) released footage of Israeli forces exploring the alleged network of Hamas tunnels within the medical complex. Analysis by the Post of tunnel footage, as well as maps and other materials released by the IDF, contradicted claims by Israel that several hospital buildings were connected to and could be accessed from within the tunnel network. The analysis also found that several small rooms attached to the tunnel, one of which the IDF had described as an evacuated Hamas “operational room,” contained no signs of recent use or occupancy. Quote A separate November analysis of IDF footage by CNN found that Israeli forces may have moved or rearranged weapons within al-Shifa Hospital before providing international news organizations access to the scene, prompting questions regarding the authenticity of the already limited findings provided by IDF forces. The original Washington Post report: Investigating the assault on al-Shifa, Gaza’s largest hospital - The Washington Post WWW.WASHINGTONPOST.COM The evidence presented by the Israeli government falls short of showing that Hamas had been using the hospital as a command and control center, a Post analysis shows. Quote Weeks before Israel sent troops into al-Shifa Hospital, its spokesman began building a public case. The claims were remarkably specific — that five hospital buildings were directly involved in Hamas activities; that the buildings sat atop underground tunnels that were used by militants to direct rocket attacks and command fighters; and that the tunnels could be accessed from inside hospital wards. The assertions were backed by “concrete evidence,” Israel Defense Forces spokesman Daniel Hagari said as he laid out the case in an Oct. 27 briefing. After storming the complex on Nov. 15, the IDF released a series of photographs and videos that it said proved its central point. Quote But the evidence presented by the Israeli government falls short of showing that Hamas had been using the hospital as a command and control center, according to a Washington Post analysis of open-source visuals, satellite imagery and all of the publicly released IDF materials. That raises critical questions, legal and humanitarian experts say, about whether the civilian harm caused by Israel’s military operations against the hospital — encircling, besieging and ultimately raiding the facility and the tunnel beneath it — were proportionate to the assessed threat. Quote The Post’s analysis shows: The rooms connected to the tunnel network discovered by IDF troops showed no immediate evidence of military use by Hamas. None of the five hospital buildings identified by Hagari appeared to be connected to the tunnel network. There is no evidence that the tunnels could be accessed from inside hospital wards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 Cardinal condemns ‘cold–blooded’ killing of two women in Gaza church | Israel-Gaza war | The Guardian WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM Vincent Nichols says shooting of mother and daughter did nothing to further Israel’s right to defend itself Quote The shooting of a mother and daughter allegedly by an Israeli military sniper in a church compound in Gaza City was a “cold–blooded killing”, the most senior Catholic cleric in England has said. Cardinal Vincent Nichols, the archbishop of Westminster, said the shooting did “nothing to further Israel’s right to defend itself”. The two women were killed inside the Holy Family parish in Gaza City on Saturday, according to the Latin Patriarchate of Jerusalem. Most of Gaza’s Christian families have taken refuge in the compound since the start of the war. Nahida Khalil Anton and her daughter Samar were shot as they walked to the sister’s convent, the patriarchate said. One was killed as she tried to carry the other to safety. Israeli airstrike kills Gaza aid worker and 70 of his extended family, UN says | Gaza | The Guardian WWW.THEGUARDIAN.COM Call to protect civilians and humanitarian staff after UNDP’s Issam al-Mughrabi, his wife, children and scores of relatives killed Quote An Israeli military airstrike killed more than 70 members of an extended family, including a veteran UN aid worker, as the UN secretary general warned that the scale of death and destruction inside Gaza is blocking delivery of desperately needed aid. Issam al-Mughrabi, 56, was killed with his wife, five children and dozens of other relatives in a bombing near Gaza City, said the head of the UN development programme (UNDP) in a statement that also called for an urgent ceasefire. “The loss of Issam and his family has deeply affected us all,” UNDP administrator Achim Steiner said. “The UN and civilians in Gaza are not a target. This war must end. No more families should endure the pain and suffering that Issam’s family and countless others are experiencing.” 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Best Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 What a mess. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 What’s Israel’s end game here? Hamas will never surrender. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 30 minutes ago, Joe said: What’s Israel’s end game here? Hamas will never surrender. I genuinely believe Tel Aviv's end-game is to create conditions in Gaza that will essentially force the population to relocate into the Sinai. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 32 minutes ago, Joe said: What’s Israel’s end game here? Seems pretty clear they want genocide. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 1 minute ago, Jason said: Seems pretty clear they want genocide. I'm going to push back on this. There is little doubt in my mind that Israel could readily commit the act of "genocide" -- which has a very specific meaning and associated conditions -- if it actually wanted to do so. What we're seeing in Gaza -- as horrific and unconscionable as it may be -- falls short of that definition and associated conditions. However, the actions of the IDF in Gaza certainly do appear to be relatively consistent with a policy of de-facto "ethnic cleansing". 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 4 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: I'm going to push back on this. There is little doubt in my mind that Israel could readily commit the act of "genocide" -- which has a very specific meaning and associated conditions -- if it actually wanted to do so. What we're seeing in Gaza -- as horrific and unconscionable as it may be -- falls short of that definition and associated conditions. However, the actions of the IDF in Gaza certainly do appear to be relatively consistent with a policy of de-facto "ethnic cleansing". Here's the UN definition of genocide from the Genocide Convention, via Wikipedia: Quote (a) Killing members of the group; (b) Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; (c) Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; (d) Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; (e) Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. What Israel is doing in Gaza is pretty clearly a, b, and c. Note that it mentions in c that it doesn't need to be the destruction of the entire group to count as genocide. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 2 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Israeli Evidence of Hamas Command Center in al-Shifa Hospital Falls Short: Report WWW.ROLLINGSTONE.COM A Washington Post investigation found no proof of a Hamas command center under al-Shifa Hospital following Israel’s attack on the medical complex. The original Washington Post report: Investigating the assault on al-Shifa, Gaza’s largest hospital - The Washington Post WWW.WASHINGTONPOST.COM The evidence presented by the Israeli government falls short of showing that Hamas had been using the hospital as a command and control center, a Post analysis shows. wow i’m shocked. this is just shocking news to me. im in disbelief! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unogueen Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 Considering the IDF just told Egypt it intents to take over the Rafa border operation whether they like it or not sounds no bueno. The constant incursions with Lebanon should be a bit of a worry. Good chance shit's about to go ultra hot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unogueen Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 Thinking about all the bigotry and inequality in the world, seeing the children of Abraham still having battles centuries and millenias after is a sore look. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted December 24, 2023 Share Posted December 24, 2023 3 hours ago, Jason said: Here's the UN definition of genocide from the Genocide Convention, via Wikipedia: What Israel is doing in Gaza is pretty clearly a, b, and c. Note that it mentions in c that it doesn't need to be the destruction of the entire group to count as genocide. You'll get no argument from me that characterizing the IDF's actions as "genocidal" represents some completely wild, out-of-bounds notion. I've just read compelling arguments from experts in the field that claim that the IDF's actions have not crossed into that territory...yet. But the sad fact of the matter that we're essentially splitting the "moral" hairs (genocide vs. ethnic cleansing) of an atrocity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remarkableriots Posted December 25, 2023 Share Posted December 25, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 On 12/24/2023 at 1:46 PM, Joe said: What’s Israel’s end game here? Hamas will never surrender. It’s one of three things, IMO: As @Commissar SFLUFANstated: remove as many Gazan’s from Gaza as possible, then rebuild it into something else. Attempt to force Egypt’s hand into some type of joint operation/agreement (lol) since Egypt wants nothing to do with Palestinian refugees in their country. To be clear, I don’t think this is super likely. EDIT: clarification; I’m talking about it becoming a police-state not dissimilar from how it was pre-1967 when Gaza was held by Egypt. However, the thought I’m having is it monitored/held/policed-by both nations in an attempt to remove some culpability from Israel. Against, though, I think this only “possible” but unlikely. Netanyahu/Netanyahu’s party wants to force the hands of other countries in general in some long shot attempt to cling to power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 2 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: It’s one of three things, IMO: As @Commissar SFLUFANstated: remove as many Gazan’s from Gaza as possible, then rebuild it into something else. Attempt to force Egypt’s hand into some type of joint operation/agreement (lol) since Egypt wants nothing to do with Palestinian refugees in their country. To be clear, I don’t think this is super likely. Netanyahu/Netanyahu’s party wants to force the hands of other countries in general in some long shot attempt to cling to power. Fourth revenge Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 1 minute ago, TUFKAK said: Fourth revenge That’s part of all three tbh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted December 26, 2023 Share Posted December 26, 2023 2 hours ago, Spork3245 said: That’s part of all three tbh I’m not sure there is any true long term strategic mission coming from the Israeli govt so I’m seeing this primarily as revenge, there’s no other way for me to interpret the actions. Also we need an official Middle East tit for tat thread https://edition.cnn.com/2023/12/25/politics/us-strikes-iraq-kataib-hezbollah/index.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted December 31, 2023 Author Share Posted December 31, 2023 US Navy helicopters sink 3 Houthi gunboats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nokra Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 5 hours ago, Jwheel86 said: US Navy helicopters sink 3 Houthi gunboats. Bringing small arms to a helicopter fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Operation praying Mantis intensifies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unogueen Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 If this feels fun that's the point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted January 2 Author Share Posted January 2 Israel iced 2 senior Hamas Leaders in Beiruit Top Hamas official Saleh Arouri, who headed West Bank operations, killed in Beirut blast APNEWS.COM Arouri, one of the founders of Hamas’ military wing, had headed the group’s presence in the West Bank. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 4 hours ago, Jwheel86 said: Israel iced 2 senior Hamas Leaders in Beiruit Top Hamas official Saleh Arouri, who headed West Bank operations, killed in Beirut blast APNEWS.COM Arouri, one of the founders of Hamas’ military wing, had headed the group’s presence in the West Bank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted January 2 Share Posted January 2 On 12/24/2023 at 8:08 AM, SuperSpreader said: Aw shucks!! I hate CNNs basic bitch tone. With war raging in Gaza, Christmas is effectively canceled in Bethlehem | CNN WWW.CNN.COM Church bells echo through the labyrinth-like streets of Bethlehem. With Christmas approaching, the city in the Israeli-occupied West Bank should be teeming with visitors. But this year, it is almost deserted. wait, you’re telling the Jews and Muslims fighting each other don’t care they impacted Christmas? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 7 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: wait, you’re telling the Jews and Muslims fighting each other don’t care they impacted Christmas? Once again Christians are the martyrs 😭 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signifyin(g)Monkey Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 20 hours ago, Jwheel86 said: Israel iced 2 senior Hamas Leaders in Beiruit Top Hamas official Saleh Arouri, who headed West Bank operations, killed in Beirut blast APNEWS.COM Arouri, one of the founders of Hamas’ military wing, had headed the group’s presence in the West Bank. The whole ‘gee I hope this doesn’t escalate into a wider regional conflict’ idea is turning into that lump you sort of joke about because you don’t think it’s really cancer but then it doesn’t go away and gets bigger and you really start to wonder… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 It's already a wider conflict it's just silently so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted January 3 Share Posted January 3 11 minutes ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said: The whole ‘gee I hope this doesn’t escalate into a wider regional conflict’ idea is turning into that lump you sort of joke about because you don’t think it’s really cancer but then it doesn’t go away and gets bigger and you really start to wonder… Hamas’ goal was always for this to become a bigger conflict. They know they can’t beat Israel, but they knew what Israel’s response would be and were hoping that would cause sympathy/outrage from others. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signifyin(g)Monkey Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 10 hours ago, Spork3245 said: Hamas’ goal was always for this to become a bigger conflict. They know they can’t beat Israel, but they knew what Israel’s response would be and were hoping that would cause sympathy/outrage from others. Well yeah, that’s been pretty apparent from the beginning…but it’s, like, kinda working, which I was hoping wouldn’t be the case… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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