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Gaza/Israel Update (09/02): general strike/mass protests in Israel pressure Netanyahu to agree to cease-fire deal

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TUFKAK

TUFKAK

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50 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

 

I was watching something explaining why so many "young people" are pro-Hamas (not, just pro-Palestine, but literally pro-Hamas) and it seemed to directly correlate with their using social media, namely TikTok, as a source of news and distrusting actual news outlets.

Why reads lots of books and papers when you can watch a 30 second clip? They have to post shit on IG!

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Spork3245

Spork3245

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1 minute ago, stepee said:

It’s really gross considering how much Hamas intentionally hurts the innocent civilians living in Palestine, almost like those people don’t really care about people and just social media points.

 

People would rather "root for a team" than actually take 10 minutes to learn about what's actually happening.

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TUFKAK

TUFKAK

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18 minutes ago, Spork3245 said:

 

People would rather "root for a team" than actually take 10 minutes to learn about what's actually happening.

It’s also a reflection of our completely broken political discourse as Americans. You’re either one side or the other now, there’s no room for grey area. This is just a way to virtue signal and gate keep for most Americans.

 

Which is what I keep trying to tell my Israeli and Jewish friends who are horrified watching the, what to them, is a pro Hamas perspective as opposed to what it is to most Americans, rooting for your team.

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Commissar SFLUFAN

Commissar SFLUFAN

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_131754074_alshifa-soldiers-idf-002.jpg

Bowen: Ceasefire demands will grow without proof of Hamas HQ at Al-Shifa

WWW.BBC.COM
Israel's rhetoric had suggested the Gaza City hospital was a nerve centre for the Hamas operation.

 

 

Quote

 

It is now days since Israeli forces entered Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City, and what appears to be happening on Friday is that they are continuing their search for evidence of this being a key Hamas command centre.

 

We have to remember that there is no independent scrutiny inside the hospital; journalists cannot move freely into Gaza, and any who are reporting from the site are working under the aegis of the Israeli military.

 

The evidence Israel has produced, so far, I do not believe to be convincing in terms of the kind of rhetoric Israelis were using about the set-up at the hospital, which suggested this was a nerve centre for the Hamas operation.

 

If there was a nerve centre there - and there has been speculation about that possibility since 2014 - then the Israelis have not yet revealed definitive evidence of its existence to the outside world.

 

What has been recovered includes some Kalashnikov rifles - these are common in the Middle East - a tunnel entrance, of which there are many in Gaza, some military uniforms and a booby-trapped vehicle.

 

The discovery of and evidence for a major Hamas headquarters underneath the hospital is of course still possible.

 

The hospital was, after all, built by the Israelis in the 1970s during its full control of the territory, and it is a large site which will take time to thoroughly search.

 

It's well known that the Israeli architects who designed Al-Shifa included extensive basements.

Negotiations are ongoing with Qatar to try to reach some sort of deal to recover the more than 200 Israeli hostages being held by Hamas inside Gaza.


But if solid evidence of a Hamas headquarters cannot be found, at Al-Shifa or elsewhere, then the pressure on Israel from the international community to negotiate a ceasefire is going to increase.

 

 

Quote

 

A lot riding on Al-Shifa

 

It is also possible that the Israelis have found something, and for their own reasons - military or security perhaps - have decided not to reveal it yet.

 

Why that would be the case is unclear - Israel has a lot riding on Al-Shifa.

 

From the beginning of this war on 7 October, when a surprise attack launched by Hamas killed around 1,200 people, mostly Israeli civilians, it has said reaching the hospital is one of its main targets.

 

Proving Hamas is using Gaza's medical facilities to cover its operations is a key Israeli objective and it is an accusation Hamas has repeatedly denied.

 

Israel's major justification for killing so many people in Gaza - more than 11,500 in more than a month, according to the latest figure from the territory's Hamas-run health ministry - is that Hamas was using them as human shields.

 

The Israeli Prime Minister, Benyamin Netanyahu claimed in an interview on Thursday night that Hamas had a military command centre at the hospital.

 

He is also pointing to what he called "strong indications" that hostages had been held there too, after the Israel Defense Forces said the body of 65-year-old Yehudit Weiss, who had been kidnapped from her home in Be'eri near the Gaza boundary, was discovered in a house near Al-Shifa.

 

 

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ort

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It's been amazing to learn just how much of an expert so many people are on this. Who knew we had so many people over here with such deep and thoughful well considered opinions on this topic that they have all cared so deeply about for so very long.

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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My two younger brothers are doctors and they said they get so many patients now who get their medical information from TikTok, and something like 80% of medical information on TikTok is wrong. So unfortunately TikTok doesn't just affect politics or this issue, but everything. It's turning kids' brains to mush since they think they are getting real info in 30 second clips from non-professionals online. Hopefully they learn with age but given Gen Z's struggles in the work force who knows.

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Commissar SFLUFAN

Commissar SFLUFAN

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The IDF has announced that the scope of the ground operations is going to expand beyond northern Gaza:

 

Quote

Senior Israeli army official says ground operation to expand

 

Herzi Halevi, the Israeli army’s chief of staff, says ground operations will expand to other areas of Gaza.

 

“We are close to dismantling the military system in the northern Gaza Strip. As far as we are concerned, more and more regions [will be targeted],” Halevi said during a visit to soldiers in the enclave.

 

So far, clashes between Israeli forces and Hamas fighters have mainly taken place in northern Gaza. However, on Thursday, the Israeli military dropped leaflets on some districts of the southern city of Khan Younis advising civilians to flee their homes.

 

The UN has repeatedly said it does not consider any area in the besieged enclave to be safe, making such evacuation orders illegal under international humanitarian law.

 

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ort

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44 minutes ago, ort said:

It's been amazing to learn just how much of an expert so many people are on this. Who knew we had so many people over here with such deep and thoughful well considered opinions on this topic that they have all cared so deeply about for so very long.

 

This comment isn't directed toward this board, but just the world in general...

 

The Fox News comments section is about 90% people just calling for mass extermination of all Palestinians with zero nuance.

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TUFKAK

TUFKAK

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16 minutes ago, Jason said:

Stealth move

 

12 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

The IDF has announced that the scope of the ground operations is going to expand beyond northern Gaza:

 

 

 

Yeah, and we only needed one more surge to pacify Iraq too! Was a great success in American military intervention and absolutely nothing worse came after. Gonna have to make long term plans to keep my sister in the US and try and convince my step mom to leave too cause that’ll help convince my sister to stay.

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TUFKAK

TUFKAK

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13 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

My two younger brothers are doctors and they said they get so many patients now who get their medical information from TikTok, and something like 80% of medical information on TikTok is wrong. So unfortunately TikTok doesn't just affect politics or this issue, but everything. It's turning kids' brains to mush since they think they are getting real info in 30 second clips from non-professionals online. Hopefully they learn with age but given Gen Z's struggles in the work force who knows.

Oh gods the absolute brain dead takes I hear from patients confirms this. If I have to hear one more time how thc/essential oils cures cancer I’m gonna give myself cancer.

 

Also, two younger brothers are doctors? I bet family gatherings are fun for you. 😂

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Mr.Vic20

Mr.Vic20

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9 minutes ago, ort said:

 

The Fox News comments section is about 90% people just calling for mass extermination of all Palestinians with zero nuance.

That's some real growth for the average fox news person! In years past they would have made zero distinction between one Semitic group and another. Now they're calling for genocide of a particular group. Someday they may see people as actual people! :daydream:

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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1 minute ago, TUFKAK said:

Oh gods the absolute brain dead takes I hear from patients confirms this. If I have to hear one more time how thc/essential oils cures cancer I’m gonna give myself cancer.

 

Also, two younger brothers are doctors? I bet family gatherings are fun for you. 😂

 

My two parents are also doctors - it fucking sucks in terms of me being lawyer/MBA by comparison so you'd be right! :p Fortunately my two younger brothers are psychiatrists now, that helps some since it's not "traditional" medicine. 

 

And I feel for you - most patients are fucking stupid but also feel they know better at the same time. Lose-lose for the nurses/doctors.

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TUFKAK

TUFKAK

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Just now, Greatoneshere said:

 

My two parents are also doctors - it fucking sucks in terms of me being lawyer/MBA by comparison. Fortunately my two younger brothers are psychiatrists now, that helps some since it's not "traditional" medicine. 

Oh so not real doctors so you’re good! 😂

 

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ort

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6 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

That's some real growth for the average fox news person! In years past they would have made zero distinction between one Semitic group and another. Now they're calling for genocide of a particular group. Someday they may see people as actual people! :daydream:

 

Not really, as bad as Fox News comments haver been over the years, I've noticed the overall level of discourse on there has been trending more and more violent, belligerent and desperate. I think die-hard right wingers are feeling more and more backed into a corner and persecuted and it's going to get ugly.

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Chris-

Chris-

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48 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

My two younger brothers are doctors and they said they get so many patients now who get their medical information from TikTok, and something like 80% of medical information on TikTok is wrong. So unfortunately TikTok doesn't just affect politics or this issue, but everything. It's turning kids' brains to mush since they think they are getting real info in 30 second clips from non-professionals online. Hopefully they learn with age but given Gen Z's struggles in the work force who knows.

 

I truly think millennials are in the sweet spot between tech savviness and skepticism...Savvy enough to utilize the platforms efficiently, but wary enough of the internet to be skeptical of anything on it.

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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3 hours ago, TUFKAK said:

Oh so not real doctors so you’re good! 😂

 

My parents certainly think so! :p What's funny is mental health is more important than ever and my brothers are MD's on the ground floor of this burgeoning industry so they're doing really well for themselves, making my parents look like fools in the process with their "traditional" medicine BS and judgments. 

 

3 hours ago, Chris- said:

I truly think millennials are in the sweet spot between tech savviness and skepticism...Savvy enough to utilize the platforms efficiently, but wary enough of the internet to be skeptical of anything on it.

 

Yeah I agree with this. I don't spend a lot of time around Gen Z'ers so I don't know what the deal is but seems like their Gen X parents were all terrible parents hence Gen Z not knowing shit.

 

1 hour ago, UpvoteShittyTakesOnly said:

ask random people to explain what a primary vs secondary source is or how to determine if a source is credible and prepare your brain to hurt

 

Most peoples' heads would not be able to compute that for sure.

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cusideabelincoln

cusideabelincoln

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On 11/16/2023 at 12:35 PM, UpvoteShittyTakesOnly said:
osama-bin-laden-letter.jpg?w=1600&h=900&

Osama bin Laden’s ‘Letter to America’ Goes Viral 21 Years Later — on TikTok

WWW.ROLLINGSTONE.COM
Osama bin Laden's 'Letter to America,' published a year after 9/11, found a new fandom on TikTok and got removed from The Guardian's website.


people on tiktok agreeing with a bin laden doc in which he explicitly hates on gays and jews was not amongst the things i expected to see today

 

you really dont have to hand it to the guy for saying some true things in an otherwise hate filled justification of mass murder

6 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

 

I was watching something explaining why so many "young people" are pro-Hamas (not, just pro-Palestine, but literally pro-Hamas) and it seemed to directly correlate with their using social media, namely TikTok, as a source of news and distrusting actual news outlets.

 

3 hours ago, Greatoneshere said:

My two younger brothers are doctors and they said they get so many patients now who get their medical information from TikTok, and something like 80% of medical information on TikTok is wrong. So unfortunately TikTok doesn't just affect politics or this issue, but everything. It's turning kids' brains to mush since they think they are getting real info in 30 second clips from non-professionals online. Hopefully they learn with age but given Gen Z's struggles in the work force who knows.

 

I saw a few of the clips and nobody even attempted to analyze - or even summarize - the Letter to America. It was entirely "OMG, he was [totally] right". Some were just videos of seemingly genuine personal surprise [that the U.S. sucks], while others were clearly videos made with the sole purpose of delivering a zinger to maintain engagement. 

 

One way to quickly fight against this is to teach the youth that social media is not information. It's primary purpose is commercialization. The purpose of the vast majority of clips is to earn money and/or reputation, just like those ads on your favorite TV/streaming service. 

 

But, as scams and mass manipulation has existed for the entire history of civilization, it's not going to be easy to implement the ideal solution of scientific skepticism.

 

4 hours ago, TUFKAK said:

It’s also a reflection of our completely broken political discourse as Americans. You’re either one side or the other now, there’s no room for grey area. This is just a way to virtue signal and gate keep for most Americans.

 

Which is what I keep trying to tell my Israeli and Jewish friends who are horrified watching the, what to them, is a pro Hamas perspective as opposed to what it is to most Americans, rooting for your team.

 

A distillation of practices used by Fox News et al.

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Greatoneshere

Greatoneshere

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13 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said:

One way to quickly fight against this is to teach the youth that social media is not information. It's primary purpose is commercialization. The purpose of the vast majority of clips is to earn money and/or reputation, just like those ads on your favorite TV/streaming service. 

 

But, as scams and mass manipulation has existed for the entire history of civilization, it's not going to be easy to implement the ideal solution of scientific skepticism.

 

I agree completely - I'm just curious what happens to multiple generations now (Gen Z and now Gen Alpha) fed a lot of their information is learned this way. Every generation has its problems to contend with so this may not be unique to Gen Z and Gen Alpha but it's certainly a new problem. It doesn't feel like the same complaints like: "our children are learning everything from their TV!" worries that used to happen. Covid certainly didn't help. But it does seem to some degree that Gen Z is going through some kind of idiocracy of their own.

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cusideabelincoln

cusideabelincoln

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8 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I agree completely - I'm just curious what happens to multiple generations now (Gen Z and now Gen Alpha) fed a lot of their information is learned this way. Every generation has its problems to contend with so this may not be unique to Gen Z and Gen Alpha but it's certainly a new problem. It doesn't feel like the same complaints like: "our children are learning everything from their TV!" worries that used to happen. Covid certainly didn't help. But it does seem to some degree that Gen Z is going through some kind of idiocracy of their on.

 

I think we can pinpoint the idiocracy (never actually seen it despite its reputation) moment to the engagement "For You" algorithms.

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Massdriver

Massdriver

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I went to TikTok last night for my first time ever after I read the Bid Laden story. I wanted to see how so many young Americans are getting their news. I couldn't find any 'news' to speak of. It was nothing but short videos of pure stupidity. If i really wanted to learn how they get their news, I would lose IQ points.

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Ricofoley

Ricofoley

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1 hour ago, Massdriver said:

I went to TikTok last night for my first time ever after I read the Bid Laden story. I wanted to see how so many young Americans are getting their news. I couldn't find any 'news' to speak of. It was nothing but short videos of pure stupidity. If i really wanted to learn how they get their news, I would lose IQ points.

If you click through to that Pew Research poll it also shows an increase in people getting their "news" from Nextdoor, and the news on there is like, "I saw a black guy by my house"

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Jwheel86

Jwheel86

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Just a moment...

WWW.TIMESOFISRAEL.COM

 

Quote

Members of the far-right Otzma Yehudit party screamed at family members of hostages being held by Hamas in Gaza during a Knesset committee hearing on Monday over controversial legislation to impose the death penalty on terrorists.

 

Relatives of some of the approximately 240 hostages taken by Hamas terrorists on October 7 beseeched the Knesset members not to hold the hearing about the legislation, concerned that the move might have severe repercussions for their abducted relatives.

 

Gil Dickmann, whose cousin Carmel Gat is one of the hostages in Gaza, broke down in tears as he begged Knesset National Security Committee Chairman MK Tzvika Fogel of Otzma Yehudit and National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir, the Otzma Yehudit leader, not to go ahead with the hearing.

Quote

Fogel said that anyone trying to hold up the bill was “representing Hamas” more than the State of Israel, while MK Almog Cohen shouted at a man whose wife and daughter are being held hostage by Hamas that he had “no mandate over pain.”

 

They need to call an election. 

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Ominous

Ominous

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Posted
On 11/17/2023 at 5:43 PM, CitizenVectron said:

The "Israel is bad" to "Hamas is good" pipeline is very similar to the "US is bad" to "Actually Russia had to invade Ukraine" pipeline. In both cases, the people who dislike Israel or the US need to root for the opposite side, because the human brain is wired for team sports/tribalism. 

 

Imagine a world where people can comprehend that there is often never a "good guy/side"...and supporting "less bad" is still shit. 

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