SuperSpreader Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Just now, Subzwari1987 said: Of course I have. Doesn’t justify what they do. Right -but I'm just saying- THEY DO respond disproportionately, innocent people get caught in it, and they aren't held accountable for it. I'm not saying it's right - just saying it happens in response to this: then why do the police not blow the house up with a tank? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 2 minutes ago, ort said: In the minds of Palestinians, Israel started the fight. So their disproportional attack is just as justified. This isn't my belief, I'm just pointing out that the same logic can be applied in either direction. Then they have effectively made non combatants targets and can never cry about the response. Reap and sow after all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, ort said: In the minds of Palestinians, Israel started the fight. So their disproportional attack is just as justified. This isn't my belief, I'm just pointing out that the same logic can be applied in either direction. I guess from this perspective then it's a "let them fight" situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted October 31, 2023 Author Share Posted October 31, 2023 27 minutes ago, ort said: What about when the person you keep imprisoned in your basement breaks out and attacks your wife with a knife. If you live somewhere where none of your neighbors want to open their border to you, is that a prison? I agree it's effectively a prison but besides an airport and sea ports being allowed, how do you unprison Gaza? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 9 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Besides, from my perspective, the Israelites lost their historical claim to the land for the final time around 70 C.E., but that's neither here nor there in assessing the current tragedy. I mean, we joke about the Romans creating the Diaspora but we both know that's not actually backed up by historical evidence, seen by how many Jews were living in the Levant following the Holocaust/at the time of the Partition after all. That region was passed from empire to empire for millennia, so do the Turks have a claim to it now since the Brits took it from them? This argument is pointless as we eventually end up discussing the city of Ur if we keep going back long enough. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subzwari1987 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, ort said: In the minds of Palestinians, Israel started the fight. So their disproportional attack is just as justified. This isn't my belief, I'm just pointing out that the same logic can be applied in either direction. And this contributes to the problem. Israel bombs Gaza and kills someone’s family. That person joins Hamas and massacres citizens which causes Israel to bomb more civilians. It doesn’t matter who started it, because the cycle of violence keeps going regardless. I remember playing a Flash game some time after the US invasion of Afghanistan where you had to shoot missiles at terrorists in a crowd of civilians. For every civilian you kill, three more turn into terrorists so the game ended up being impossible to kill. Trying to take out Hamas with overwhelming force won’t work for Israel. After 20 years of war in Afghanistan, the Taliban are still in control. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Jwheel86 said: If you live somewhere where none of your neighbors want to open their border to you, is that a prison? I agree it's effectively a prison but besides an airport and sea ports being allowed, how do you unprison Gaza? Blame Israel and the west while tossing rockets at Israel because you have lost half a dozen wars in nearly a century. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 minute ago, Jwheel86 said: how do you unprison Gaza? According to demonstrators /protestors is to get rid of Israel (kill them all) What does ‘From the river to the sea’ mean to Palestinians, Jews? CHICAGO.SUNTIMES.COM The decades-old chant is being heard around the world in recent weeks — including at protests in Chicago. In our efforts to cover the local impact of the war, we examine its history, what it means to Palestinians, why it has been the center of global controversy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Just now, Subzwari1987 said: Trying to take out Hamas with overwhelming force won’t work for Israel. After 20 years of war in Afghanistan, the Taliban are still in control. My legitimate deep concern is that a nation that was created on "no more holocausts" was just scarred at their deepest levels and reminded of that. You are talking about a nation that was raised on stories on that tragedy, it's beyond generational trauma now. I am terrified on what they will do. This isn't 9/11 US military adventurism, this is much worse. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subzwari1987 Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 9 minutes ago, TUFKAK said: Then they have effectively made non combatants targets and can never cry about the response. Reap and sow after all. And using the same logic, Hamas gunning down people in a music festival is justified because of Israel bombing apartment buildings in Gaza. This whole logic is completely and utter bullshit, and understanding this is the first step in breaking out of this cycle of violence. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osxmatt Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Quote Israel Defense Forces spokesperson Lt. Col. Richard Hecht told CNN's Wolf Blitzer on Tuesday the Hamas commander who was the target of an airstrike at the Jabalya refugee camp in Gaza was “hiding, as they do, behind civilians.” The strike caused many casualties at Jabalya, the largest refugee camp in Gaza, according to authorities in Hamas-controlled Gaza. When Blitzer asked the spokesperson about innocent civilians in the refugee camp, Hecht responded, “This is the tragedy of war, Wolf.” He reiterated the IDF call to evacuate: “Civilians (who) are not involved with Hamas, please move south.” Hecht said the Hamas commander who was the target of the strike “killed many Israelis.” “It's a very complicated battle space,” Hecht said of the area the IDF struck. “There could be infrastructure there, tunnels there. We're looking into it and (will) give you more data as the hour moves ahead.” 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 1 minute ago, osxmatt said: “It's a very complicated battle space,” Hecht said of the area the IDF struck. “There could be infrastructure there, tunnels there. We're looking into it and (will) give you more data as the hour moves ahead.” "It is what it is." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, Subzwari1987 said: And using the same logic, Hamas gunning down people in a music festival is justified because of Israel bombing apartment buildings in Gaza. This whole logic is completely and utter bullshit, and understanding this is the first step in breaking out of this cycle of violence. I completely agree. But when I look at the sides here, I see one side who punches the other, the other responds. There was a lull in hostilities and then this happened. Can I hit you because you hit me four months ago? Hamas has not negotiated in good faith and as was just posted, river to the sea, is a call. Israel has a right to exist, one side doesn't agree. What is the solution? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osxmatt Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 3 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: "It is what it is." “There could be tunnels.” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 Just now, osxmatt said: “There could be tunnels.” Second Battle of Fallujah - Wikipedia EN.WIKIPEDIA.ORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted October 31, 2023 Share Posted October 31, 2023 This is a better example honestly. This was done in all of our names, I wasn't in the Corps until after this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 US and Israel Weigh Peacekeepers for the Gaza Strip After Hamas (Bloomberg) Quote The US and Israel are considering the possibility of a multinational force that could include American, UK, French troops in the Gaza Strip, in the event that Israeli forces are successful in ousting Hamas, according to a report. US and Israeli officials exploring options for the future of Gaza have also discussed a second option that would establish a peacekeeping force modeled on one that oversees a 1979 Egypt-Israel peace treaty, Bloomberg reported, citing people familiar with the conversations. A third option would see Gaza put under temporary UN oversight, it said. The sources noted that the conversations are still at an early stage and much could change. The US secretary of state, Antony Blinken, alluded to the challenge of coming up with a plan for the future of Gaza when he addressed a Senate panel on Tuesday. “We can’t have a reversion to the status quo with Hamas running Gaza,” Blinken told the Senate appropriations committee. “We also can’t have — and the Israelis start with this proposition themselves — Israel running or controlling Gaza.” He added: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 Saudi Arabia should do it instead. Let them flex some regional muscle 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 1 minute ago, mclumber1 said: Saudi Arabia should do it instead. Let them flex some regional muscle Cutting up journalists is way easier though 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: The US and Israel are considering the possibility of a multinational force that could include American, UK, French troops in the Gaza Strip, in the event that Israeli forces are successful in ousting Hamas, according to a report. Damn they reading my posts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 1 hour ago, mclumber1 said: Saudi Arabia should do it instead. Let them flex some regional muscle Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 2 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: Damn they reading my posts I want nothing to do with this. Let the Arab world provide for their “brothers.” No American boots on the ground 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 1 minute ago, TUFKAK said: I want nothing to do with this. Let the Arab world provide for their “brothers.” No American boots on the ground What if we can make.the Arab world jealous of the Gaza Strip in the future tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 3 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: What if we can make.the Arab world jealous of the Gaza Strip in the future tho By providing American service members as targets? how we can in one breath caution Israel not to repeat our mistakes and in the next go “yee-haw nation building bitches” baffles me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 Shai Eden - I would like to share with you an English... WWW.FACEBOOK.COM I would like to share with you an English translation of my post on the geo-political reasons behind the war in Israel. Let us all hope for a peaceful... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 The 9/11 comparisons really need to stop 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 14 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: The 9/11 comparisons really need to stop Americans have to relate to the world via an American lens, we’re genetically incapable of anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 16 minutes ago, TUFKAK said: Americans have to relate to the world via an American lens, we’re genetically incapable of anything else. It just shows such a lack of knowledge regarding Israel or even the region in general that I can’t take anything said afterwards seriously. Israel prepares for and has had a ridiculous amount of “9/11s”, the biggest one being before it was a country (I believe it was something most people haven’t heard of (sarcasm), something called “The Holocaust”). The way Israel arguably “over responds” to every threat is because of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 4 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: It just shows such a lack of knowledge regarding Israel or even the region in general that I can’t take anything said afterwards seriously. Israel prepares for and has had a ridiculous amount of “9/11s”, the biggest one being before it was a country (I believe it was something most people haven’t heard of (sarcasm), something called “The Holocaust”). The way Israel arguably “over responds” to every threat is because of this. Haven’t you heard? On this topic nothing pre 1947 matters. Also, Americans and lack of knowledge? Surely you jest! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted November 1, 2023 Author Share Posted November 1, 2023 10 hours ago, SuperSpreader said: Damn they reading my posts Nope, a staffer got the idea from the West Wing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 The Rafah crossing into Egypt has been opened for dual passport holders and "some" of the badly injured to exit Gaza: Gaza border opened to allow some badly wounded, and foreign passport holders, flee the war APNEWS.COM Hundreds of dual passport holders and dozens of seriously injured Palestinians were allowed to leave Gaza after more than three weeks under siege. Quote Hundreds of dual passport holders and dozens of seriously injured Palestinians were allowed to leave Gaza on Wednesday after more than three weeks under siege, while Israeli airstrikes destroyed apartments in a densely populated area for the second straight day. The group were the first people to leave Gaza -- other than four hostages released by Hamas and another rescued by Israeli forces -- even as bombings have driven hundreds of thousands from their homes, and food, water and fuel run low. It remained unclear whether more people would be allowed to leave Gaza in coming days. The latest strikes in the densely populated Jabaliya refugee camp near Gaza City demolished multi-story apartment buildings, and dozens of men afterward dug through the rubble, searching for survivors, according to footage from Al-Jazeera television, one of the few media outlets still reporting from northern Gaza. It showed several wounded people, including children, being brought to a nearby hospital. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 In a truly unforeseen turn of events, Piers Bloody Morgan has seemingly adopted the cause of the Palestinians: The Person Covering Palestine-Israel Best Is … Piers Morgan? SLATE.COM How the formerly disgraced British television anchor found a new niche. Quote Morgan’s approach has been getting noticed, and he is happy to take in this praise. His program’s X account has already called its coverage of the conflict “world-leading,” which, I mean, ugh, I’m inclined to agree. Responses from pro-Palestinian X accounts, though hesitant, are also showering him with praise. Morgan is even flirting with calling to free Palestine. It happened in a tweet of his: “The oppression of Palestinian people has been totally unacceptable, and peace will never be possible until they are afforded freedom & equality. But it should be possible to believe that, and to condemn the horrifying terror attacks on Israel on Oct7.” It’s a surprisingly refreshing take, given that many leaders of the Western world barely acknowledge the existence of an occupation at all, and the list of journalists being fired for making similar remarks is ever expanding. From his "App Formerly Known as Twitter" account: Quote Israel deliberately bombing Gaza's largest refugee camp, even if a Hamas commander was there, is outrageous and indefensible. Quote The deaths of so many Palestinians, including 100s of women and children, since the unconscionable Hamas terror attacks is heart-breaking, and will get massively worse if Israel launches a full-blown ground invasion. Every innocent life in this conflict matters equally. Quote Thank you. I’d like a free Palestine too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Hundreds of dual passport holders and dozens of seriously injured Palestinians were allowed to leave Gaza on Wednesday after more than three weeks under siege, while Israeli airstrikes destroyed apartments in a densely populated area for the second straight day. if Hamas lets them leave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 1, 2023 Share Posted November 1, 2023 Just now, SuperSpreader said: if Hamas lets them leave They've already crossed the border into the Egypt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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