Gaza/Israel Update (09/02): general strike/mass protests in Israel pressure Netanyahu to agree to cease-fire deal

[Greatoneshere]

11 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

I feel compelled to say this.

Israel is a nation who, at it's core, exists to protect Jews, to prevent another holocaust. People are talking in real politic, ignoring the very human point of this to them, what it felt like to see more Jews killed in a single day since the holocaust, and shocked they want blood. You're either willfully ignorant or commander Data, but even he would be able to intellectually understand. Israel at it's core is a nation of "never again." And those of you who do not understand this fact contribute to this disaster. Even their own Arab brothers turn them away. But Israel is the problem? Egypt would rather watch them die then welcome them in. But Israel is the problem. No other nation in the region will lift a fucking finger, gland to attack embassies and American military assets, but actually helping "Palestine" though. Not only no, but fuck no was their response.

You think fucking Hamas shares our values? I've fought with you all over trans rights, nearly left the boards over it, wonder what they're fucking perspective is on trans people are? Free and fair elections. Will of the people. I know what side I am on, the only democracy in the middle east.

 

Israel is absolutely the problem. They took over the country when it was given to them and they've had no qualms about creating what is essentially an apartheid state for nearly 75 years. Are Arab and Middle Eastern countries also to blame? Of course they are. But the Palestinians biggest threat to their entire existence is first and foremost Israel - history speaks to that. I hate Hamas too, both can be true, but massacring Palestinian civilians or putting them into camps or displacing them is typical Israeli policy towards the Palestinians. I've been following this thread from the start and trying to say Muslim-dominant neighboring countries are equal or more at fault than Israel is crazy talk. 

 

The holocaust happened and was horrific, but displacing the Palestinians wasn't the answer, and now it's clear you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Hamas' attack on Israel didn't happen in a vacuum, as heinous as what they did was. Palestinians have been under direct threat for decades. How do you think the Jews got Israel in the first place? By asking nicely?

[TUFKAK]

1 minute ago, UpvoteShittyTakesOnly said:

 

primarily through the grave sin of existing

How did you go from my enemy to my ally in like three weeks.

Oh, shared values.

[TUFKAK]

1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Israel is absolutely the problem. They took over the country when it was given to them and they've had no qualms about creating what is essentially an apartheid state for nearly 75 years. Are Arab and Middle Eastern countries also to blame? Of course they are. But the Palestinians biggest threat to their entire existence is first and foremost Israel - history speaks to that. I hate Hamas too, both can be true, but massacring Palestinians or putting them into camps or displacing them is typical Israeli policy towards the Palestinians. I've been following this thread from the start and trying to say Muslim-dominant neighboring countries are equal or more at fault than Israel is crazy talk. 

 

The holocaust happened, but displacing the Palestinians wasn't the answer, and now it's clear you either die a hero or you live long enough to see yourself become the villain. Hamas' attack on Israel didn't happen in a vacuum, as heinous as what they did was. Palestinians have been under direct threat for decades. How do you think the Jews got Israel in the first place? By asking nicely?

Maybe you didn't see my previous posts, I can respond to this because it's well thought out and reasoned and shit I've grappled with for years.

Dammit, I hit enter too soon give me a few. I'll respond in a new post.

[Jason]

6 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

Israel is absolutely the problem.

 

I'm pretty sure I'm the only Jewish on this board and Israel is 100% its own worst enemy.

[TUFKAK]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

 

I'm pretty sure I'm the only Jewish on this board and Israel is 100% its own worst enemy.

I can quote Adariel if you like.

[Greatoneshere]

2 minutes ago, Jason said:

I'm pretty sure I'm the only Jewish on this board and Israel is 100% its own worst enemy.

 

I don't know how you go from being a group with all the empathetic cachet in the world given all the suffering they've sadly endured only for them to turn around and to be so paranoid in creating and then keeping Israel that they'd do to Palestinians a variation of what the Germans did to them (camps, creating suffering, etc.). 

[UpvoteShittyTakesOnly]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

 

I'm pretty sure I'm the only Jewish on this board and Israel is 100% its own worst enemy.

 

@ort erasure unbelievable 

[UpvoteShittyTakesOnly]

10 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

How do you think the Jews got Israel in the first place? By asking nicely?

 

same way the area became arab

[Mr.Vic20]

1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I don't know how you go from being a group with all the empathetic cachet in the world given all the suffering they've sadly endured only for them to turn around and to be so paranoid in creating and then keeping Israel that they'd do to Palestinians a variation of what the Germans did to them (camps). 

Because we are human and humans are, well, a long bloody, self righteous history of blatant hypocrisy. 

[Greatoneshere]

5 minutes ago, UpvoteShittyTakesOnly said:

same way the area became arab

 

This is probably the only time I'll bother to respond to you since you're clearly intractable and biased on this issue, but this statement makes no sense. Are you really going to talk about the conquering and re-conquering of the area by different groups hundreds of years ago? That's completely irrelevant to today or modern history, which is what matters here. For a long time Palestinians lived there, then in the 1890's a Zionist movement started to begin a displacement process, and then after WW2 the UN led by the UK basically destroyed Palestine to get rid of the Jews in Europe and make it another area's problem and the Jews who went primarily embraced it. Nothing before the Palestinians were there (which was for quite awhile before WW2) matters and saying that it does strikes me as bizarre. I guess because Christians had Jerusalem for a bit 900 years ago during the Crusades means they should push out the Jews and Palestinians in Jerusalem and create an apartheid state too right? 

 

4 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said:

Because we are human and humans are, well, a long bloody, self righteous history of blatant hypocrisy. 

 

True but then that means Israel is first and foremost the problem from the Palestinian civilians perspective.

[TUFKAK]

@GreatoneshereYes, why did Israel get that nation? What was the reasoning? This keeps getting ignored in this discussion. Our own national dialog keeps this prevalent. You really think the anti Jewish views in America end outside of America? The whole, “globalist” freak out. That’s an ancient trope dude. Millenia of hatred created the impetus for Israel, that hatred still exists, chuds just need Israel so their god-king can come back. I was raised in the church, trust me, it’s big for those mouth breathers.

European powers created Israel because of their abject moral bankruptcy, they do not fucking deserve a reprieve, they created the moral reasoning for Zionism, they are responsible for this. They did this. Not Israel, who fought multiple wars to ensure their own existence. Israel is not to blame and I will not fucking side with people would murder my niece because she has two moms. You all know they would, and shut the fuck up for pretending other wise.

I realized I was soft racist by holding Israel to a standard I wouldn’t Muslim Arabs. We all know what their response would be to my nieces existence. I side with the nation who would fight to save Amelia over the side who would kill her.

 

[UpvoteShittyTakesOnly]

1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

This is probably the only time I'll bother to respond to you since you're clearly intractable and biased on this issue, but this statement makes no sense. Are you really going to talk about the conquering and re-conquering of the area by different groups hundreds of years ago? That's completely irrelevant to today or modern history, which is what matters here. For a long time Palestinians lived there, then in the 1890's a Zionist movement started to begin a displacement process, and then after WW2 the UN led by the UK basically destroyed Palestine to get rid of the Jews in Europe and make it another area's problem and the Jews who went primarily embraced it. Nothing before the Palestinians were there (which was for quite awhile before WW2) matters.

 

how long do you have to live there before it is yours

 

asking as a person who lives on conquered land

[TUFKAK]

2 minutes ago, UpvoteShittyTakesOnly said:

 

how long do you have to live there before it is yours

 

asking as a person who lives on conquered land

Until Amazon sets up a distribution center 

[Greatoneshere]

17 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

@GreatoneshereYes, why did Israel get that nation? What was the reasoning? This keeps getting ignored in this discussion. Our own national dialog keeps this prevalent. You really think the anti Jewish views in America end outside of America? The whole, “globalist” freak out. That’s an ancient trope dude. Millenia of hatred created the impetus for Israel, that hatred still exists, chuds just need Israel so their god-king can come back. I was raised in the church, trust me, it’s big for those mouth breathers.

European powers created Israel because of their abject moral bankruptcy, they do not fucking deserve a reprieve, they created the moral reasoning for Zionism, they are responsible for this. They did this. Not Israel, who fought multiple wars to ensure their own existence. Israel is not to blame and I will not fucking side with people would murder my niece because she has two moms. You all know they would, and shut the fuck up for pretending other wise.

I realized I was soft racist by holding Israel to a standard I wouldn’t Muslim Arabs. We all know what their response would be to my nieces existence. I side with the nation who would fight to save Amelia over the side who would kill her.

 

 

I completely agree (see my post directly above yours) that Europe after WW2 is responsible - but the Jews and Theodore Hertzel had started the Zionist movement in the 1890's, long before either World War. Of course anti-semitism is an old trope and that after WW2 Europe just wanted to get rid of the "Jew" problem. There is no "moral reasoning" for Zionism though. Facing hatred and racism in one area (Europe) doesn't mean you go and displace a completely unrelated people (Palestinians) elsewhere. I guess black people, instead of fighting for their rights in America, should all move to Chile and push out all the Chileans then.

 

Also: "not Israel, who fought multiple wars to ensure their own existence". Yeah, they fought multiple wars to keep and take additional land that was never theirs to have in the first place. You keep acting like because Israel was given a UN mandate to "have" Palestine and Europe was callous in its decision making that Israel's hands are free and clean as a result. Every decision Israel made after the UN and the UK broke up Palestine is on Israel, not on Europe or the UK. 

 

Also, your racism towards Muslims is not cool in my estimation (or that's how it's coming off). I was born in the US, I'm a first generation Pakistani-American raised deeply Muslim, and while I'm an agnostic/apatheist (not atheist, apatheist) and I have no love for Islam (or any religion, including Judaism) but, just as an example, I know a lot of Muslims who are trans, and a lot more Muslims in Muslim countries who support LGBT+ rights in these regressive countries. Islam and modernity are at a crossroads but for a religion with over a billion followers it's ridiculous to be like: "Lebanon wants to kill my niece". That's patently untrue. Let's say your niece was trans. There are Christians who want to kill your niece in white, Christian dominant countries but I don't see anyone saying: "Florida wants to kill my niece". Yes, of course the conservative elements of Muslim society want to kill trans, LGBT+, Jews, etc. But this broad brush of "Muslim Arabs want to all kill my niece" isn't true in the least and does a disservice to all the Muslims I know who hate what Hamas did, don't like violence, and try to fight for what is right, of which there are many more than you're giving credit for when there's over a billion Muslims out there. I assure you if they all wanted to kill someone, the sheer numbers would make that succeed with whatever Muslims wanted to do - the fact that they are as fractious a religion as any other bears out that this isn't true. They are no more a monolithic group than Christians or Jews are.

 

Israel has committed a number of heinous acts over the decades to take and keep the land and saying "I won't side with the facts because I believe all Muslims want to kill a certain kind of person" strikes me as racist to a large degree and I hate suggesting that about you because I don't want it to be true but that's what I'm seeing with such overly broad statements to justify very specific points about the Palestinians' right to exist and how Israel has denied them that more and more these past 75 years. Have you been to Palestine vs. Israel? I've been to both places and I can assure you the difference in living conditions is so apparent that it's clear mistreatment on the part of the Israelis, who hold all the power here, both militarily and who they are backed by.

[SuperSpreader]

There are no innocents here and both the Israelis and Palestinians are on the receiving end of shit. I have to look at it from where we are now and I wonder what the options are.

 

People acting like Palestine would be happy with some 50/50 split are delusional, they won't be happy unless they have 100% of the land. So then I have to look at "both sides "and pick the one that aligns more with mine, which is Israel because Palestine leads to more human rights issues (gay rights, women's rights, etc). 

 

I think the "true" two state solution would be a long... 60+ year nation building commitment from the world, and that's just not gonna happen. I don't think the Palestinians have done themselves any favors over the years, and unfortunately we're all in this stupid shit situation together.

 

Well.. not me really, I'm Mexican. 

[TUFKAK]

2 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

I completely agree (see my post directly above yours) that Europe after WW2 is responsible - but the Jews and Theodore Hertzel had started the Zionist movement in the 1890's, long before either World War. Of course anti-semitism is an old trope and that after WW2 Europe just wanted to get rid of the "Jew" problem. There is no "moral reasoning" for Zionism. Facing hatred and racism in one area (Europe) doesn't mean you go and displace a completely unrelated people (Palestinians) elsewhere. 

 

Also: "not Israel, who fought multiple wars to ensure their own existence". Yeah, they fought multiple wars to keep and take additional land that was never theirs to have in the first place.. You keep acting like because Israel was given a UN mandate to "have" Palestine and Europe was callous in its decision making that Israel's hands are free and clean as a result. Every decision Israel made after the UN and the UK broke up Palestine is on Israel, not on Europe or the UK. 

 

Also, your racism towards Muslims is not cool in my estimation. I was born in the US, I'm a first generation Pakistani-American raised deeply Muslim, and while I'm an agnostic/apatheist (not atheist, apatheist) and I have no love for Islam (or any religion, including Judaism) but, just as an example, I know a lot of Muslims who are trans, and a lot more Muslims in Muslim countries who support LGBT+ rights in these regressive countries. Islam and modernity are at a crossroads but for a religion with over a billion followers it's ridiculous to be like: "Lebanon wants to kill my niece". That's patently untrue. Let's say your niece was trans. There are Christians who want to kill your niece in white, Christian dominant countries but I don't see you saying: "Florida wants to kill my niece". Yes, of course the conservative elements of Muslim society want to kill trans, LGBT+, Jews, etc. But this broad brush of "Muslim Arabs want to all kill my niece" isn't true in the least and does a disservice to all the Muslims I know who hat ewhat Hamas did, don't like violence, and try to fight for what is right, of which there are many more than you're giving credit for when there's over a billion Muslims out there. I assure you if they all wanted to kill someone, the sheer numbers would make that succeed with whatever Muslims wanted to - the fact that they are as fractioius a religion as any other bears out that this isn't true.

 

Israel has committed a number of heinous acts over the decades to take and keep the land and saying I won't side with the facts because I believe all Muslims want to kill a certain kind of person strikes me as racist to a large degree.

I am formulating a response as we speak, but, I never said all Muslims, I want to make that clear, I have amazing relationships and friendships with people what are in that faith. If I gave that view I am sorry, me and my friend Aammira have debated theology multiple times and I love and respect her. But I'm willing to bet they have been influenced by progressives and western ideals. I am willing to be wrong, I am not perfect.

[Jwheel86]

7 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

This is probably the only time I'll bother to respond to you since you're clearly intractable and biased on this issue, but this statement makes no sense. Are you really going to talk about the conquering and re-conquering of the area by different groups hundreds of years ago? That's completely irrelevant to today or modern history, which is what matters here. For a long time Palestinians lived there, then in the 1890's a Zionist movement started to begin a displacement process, and then after WW2 the UN led by the UK basically destroyed Palestine to get rid of the Jews in Europe and make it another area's problem and the Jews who went primarily embraced it. Nothing before the Palestinians were there (which was for quite awhile before WW2) matters.

 

 

75 of years of things in Europe for Jews being relatively okay, doesn't erase 1,000 years of slaughter in a group's collective conciseness. I wouldn't say they embraced it. 

[UpvoteShittyTakesOnly]

some bathroom reading from human rights watch for no reason at all

 

“All This Terror Because of a Photo”

WWW.HRW.ORG

---

The 135-page report, “‘All This Terror Because of a Photo’: Digital Targeting and Its Offline Consequences for LGBT People in the Middle East and North Africa,” examines the use of digital targeting by security forces and its far-reaching offline consequences – including arbitrary detention and torture – in five countries: Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Lebanon, and Tunisia. The findings show how security forces employ digital targeting...

 

“Everyone Wants Me Dead”

WWW.HRW.ORG

---

The 86-page report, “‘Everyone Wants Me Dead’: Killings, Abductions, Torture, and Sexual Violence Against LGBT People by Armed Groups in Iraq,” documents cases of attempted murder of LGBT people by armed groups primarily within the Popular Mobilization Forces (PMF), which are nominally under the prime minister’s authority. Human Rights Watch also documented cases of abductions, extrajudicial killings...

 

“They Treated Us in Monstrous Ways”

WWW.HRW.ORG

---

The 77-page report, “‘They Treated Us in Monstrous Ways’: Sexual Violence Against Men, Boys, and Transgender Women in the Syrian Conflict,” found that men and boys have been vulnerable to sexual violence in the Syrian conflict since it began. People Human Rights Watch interviewed said that gay and bisexual men, transgender women, and nonbinary people were subject to increased violence based on their actual or...

 

“Don’t Punish Me for Who I Am”

WWW.HRW.ORG

---

Lebanese General Security has banned a group of activists and academics from re-entering Lebanon following their participation in a September 2018 conference on gender and sexuality, Human Rights Watch, the Arab Foundation for Freedoms and Equality (AFE), and Legal Agenda said today. General Security officers attempted to unlawfully shut down the conference and took names of all conference participants...

 

[Greatoneshere]

10 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

There are no innocents here and both the Israelis and Palestinians are on the receiving end of shit. I have to look at it from where we are now and I wonder what the options are.

 

People acting like Palestine would be happy with some 50/50 split are delusional, they won't be happy unless they have 100% of the land. So then I have to look at "both sides "and pick the one that aligns more with mine, which is Israel because Palestine leads to more human rights issues (gay rights, women's rights, etc). 

 

I don't think this is true at all, where are you getting this? In almost all previous negotiations, my understanding is it was always about moving the borders back from before the 1960's war and there was a lot of resistance on both sides to doing so, including Israel. By the way, suggesting that one group can't exist because we're presuming what their country would like if they had it free and clear is fucked up. It could turn into a pre-Erdogan Turkey for all we know, not become a regressive Muslim state. And even if it did, if that's how they want to live, then they should be allowed to do so through creating their own government, etc.

 

"The Palestinians haven't done them any favors over the years?" They tried to protest peacefully - that's what the first intifada was about over there. They have kids throwing stones at tanks. They've also tried fighting, and have only lost land doing so. What are they supposed to do? They've called on humanitarian groups, governments, etc. They've done everything and have only lost more and more. Why is the onus and burden on the much weaker group and not Israel, the one with all the power here? What could Palestine have done otherwise to fight for their right to exist?

 

9 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said:

75 of years of things in Europe for Jews being relatively okay, doesn't erase 1,000 years of slaughter in a group's collective conciseness. I wouldn't say they embraced it. 

 

I meant the Jews embraced the creation of Israel, I didn't see them saying: "no, we can't do that, that's a country full of people already". I'm saying the Israeli government embraced and had no qualms doing whatever it is they needed for security at the expense of the Palestinian people. That's what I mean by embrace. Of course no one embraces 1,000 years of suffering. 

[Jwheel86]

1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said:

By the way, suggesting that one group can't exist because we're presuming what their country would like if they had it free and clear is fucked up. It could turn into a pre-Erdogan Turkey for all we know.

 

Israel has pretty good reason to believe the West Bank would turn into a Super Gaza, which would lead to another open air prison once Israel and Jordan close their borders, which is exactly what happened in Gaza. 

[SuperSpreader]

4 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

By the way, suggesting that one group can't exist because we're presuming what their country would like if they had it free and clear is fucked up. It could turn into a pre-Erdogan Turkey for all we know, not become a regressive Muslim state. And even if it did, that's how they want to live, then they should be allowed to do so through creating their own government, etc.

 

All signs don't point to some Democratic Arab nation 

[Greatoneshere]

3 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said:

Israel has pretty good reason to believe the West Bank would turn into a Super Gaza, which would lead to another open air prison once Israel and Jordan close their borders, which is exactly what happened in Gaza. 

 

3 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

All signs don't point to some Democratic Arab nation 

 

It shouldn't matter. They should be allowed, internally, to create whatever country and values and system of government that the people desire and can vote for. If the worry is it becomes a haven for terrorists and Muslim fundamentalists ala Afghanistan or Iraq, well, how do you think it got to here? Israel has created an environment of hatred amongst the people suffering there that they probably believe at this point its their only recourse. It's ironic that Israel is worried about the West Bank turning into a super Gaza when the only reason that could happen is because of what Israel has been doing to it for 75 years, and now everyone was like: "well, it's bad and dangerous, so we have to stop it". Creating the problem that you then have to fix is on you. And I certainly don't think a ground invasion of Gaza where you massacre civilians is the right response to these worries, this requires a measured hand.

[TUFKAK]

2 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

 

It shouldn't matter. They should be allowed, internally, to create whatever country and values and system of government that the people desire and can vote for. If the worry is it becomes a haven for terrorists and Muslim fundamentalists ala Afghanistan or Iraq, well, how do you think it got to here? Israel has created an environment of hatred amongst the people suffering there that they probably believe at this point its their only recourse. It's ironic that Israel is worried about the West Bank turning into a super Gaza when the only reason that could happen is because of what Israel has been doing to it for 75 years, and now everyone was like: "well, it's bad and dangerous, so we have to stop it". Creating the problem that you then have to fix is on you. And I certainly don't think a ground invasion of Gaza where you massacre civilians is the right response to these worries, this requires a measured hand.

lol vote for

[Greatoneshere]

28 minutes ago, UpvoteShittyTakesOnly said:

how long do you have to live there before it is yours

 

asking as a person who lives on conquered land

 

There's no timeline, obviously. But I'm going to say hundreds of years is long enough. It's not like this was some back and forth where it was Jews, then Palestinians, then Jews, then Palestinians. It was Palestinians/Arabs for quite awhile, and then all of a sudden a hostile takeover from a completely unrelated group of people primarily from Europe, surely you can see the difference.

[TUFKAK]

 

[Jwheel86]

1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

 

It shouldn't matter. They should be allowed, internally, to create whatever country and values and system of government that the people desire and can vote for. If the worry is it becomes a haven for terrorists and Muslim fundamentalists ala Afghanistan or Iraq, well, how do you think it got to here? Israel has created an environment of hatred amongst the people suffering there that they probably believe at this point its their only recourse. It's ironic that Israel is worried about the West Bank turning into a super Gaza when the only reason that could happen is because of what Israel has been doing to it for 75 years, and now everyone was like: "well, it's bad and dangerous, so we have to stop it". Creating the problem that you then have to fix is on you. And I certainly don't think a ground invasion of Gaza where you massacre civilians is the right response to these worries, this requires a measured hand.

 

How do you suggest undoing those 75 years of bad blood? 

[Greatoneshere]

Just now, TUFKAK said:

lol vote for

 

It's been known to happen. My point is they should get to decide their own destiny, the Israelis should not get to decide it for them.

[TUFKAK]

Fucking remember 

[TUFKAK]

Just now, Greatoneshere said:

 

It's been known to happen. My point is they should get to decide their own destiny, the Israelis should not get to decide it for them.

They voted, it was called Hamas. 

[Greatoneshere]

Just now, Jwheel86 said:

How do you suggest undoing those 75 years of bad blood? 

 

I never suggested I have an answer or the right answer, but I know the wrong answer and that's not genociding the civilian Palestinian population for what Hamas did. There's a genuine hostage crisis that needs addressing and just because something is a war doesn't mean you have to commit war crimes. 

 

The only reason I posted to begin with was just to point out that Israel is a key reason and problem why we're here, when TUFKAK suggested otherwise. I was merely trying to correct the record there and get people to understand that it has always been Israel that has all the cards, not the poor and weak Palestinians who can barely keep up fighting them. But some of the posts in this thread suggest two equal armies/groups at equal loggerheads with equal justifications for what they are doing and that's simply not true given what the last 75 years have entailed, and context is important here.

[Greatoneshere]

2 minutes ago, TUFKAK said:

They voted, it was called Hamas. 

 

Yeah I'm aware but you have to also recall that Hamas is basically half political group, half gang. Palestine hasn't been a real country since it got taken over and to suggest whatever shambles governments they've been able to create in Gaza and the West Bank as "legit voting" in the way we do it in democratized nations isn't fair.

[TUFKAK]

@Greatoneshere
But, I noticed you made racial distinction too. My niece is mixed, shes half Dominican, you assumed she was white, wonder why. Hmmm. Maybe were more accepting of alternative lifestyles, wonder how many Muslim majority countries accept families like my niece as opposed to hamas. Or Egypt, or Joran. Hey I wonder what Germany or France would say about my niece. Maybe I can fly there and ask. Again, you are wrong to act as if they share our views in the wide spread. They do not.

Israel was given this drama, you can not blame them for other issues.

The fact you used a racial distinction on me makes my point btw, think Hamas fucking cares about that. lol

[TUFKAK]

9 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

There's no timeline, obviously. But I'm going to say hundreds of years is long enough. It's not like this was some back and forth where it was Jews, then Palestinians, then Jews, then Palestinians. It was Palestinians/Arabs for quite awhile, and then all of a sudden a hostile takeover from a completely unrelated group of people primarily from Europe, surely you can see the difference.

A European power kicked the Jews out sooooo

 

can we kick out the “Palestinians” too 

[Greatoneshere]

1 minute ago, TUFKAK said:

@Greatoneshere
But, I noticed you made racial distinction too. My niece is mixed, shes half Dominican, you assumed she was white, wonder why. Hmmm. Maybe were more accepting of alternative lifestyles, wonder how many Muslim majority countries accept families like my niece as opposed to hamas. Or Egypt, or Joran. Hey I wonder what Germany or France would say about my niece. Maybe I can fly there and ask. Again, you are wrong to act as if they share our views in the wide spread. They do not.

Israel was given this drama, you can not blame them for other issues.

The fact you used a racial distinction on me makes my point btw, think Hamas fucking cares about that. lol

 

I didn't assume she was white or Jewish, where did I say that? All I suggested was an example where what if your niece was trans. I don't know her so I'm making no assumptions. Can you point out where I made a racial distinction in my post? I'll ignore this for now since I don't see where I made any distinction.

 

Israel was "given" this drama?  How so? They accepted the deal, then went, then took it over, in part. And then they decided to do more and more. How is that "given"? That's them taking the initiative, taking action.

 

And I'll repeat again: many Muslims, on an individual level, are much more accepting than you think. I'm not suggesting they share the same views or ideals, but many can be quite tolerant, just as many are intolerant. It's a different world out there but you're wrong to suggest that every Muslim dominant country wants to kill her or wouldn't accept her. Depends on the Muslim-dominant country and depends on where she lives in that country and who she knows, just like anywhere. On average, are Muslim-dominant countries more conservative? Of course. Are most poor countries more conservative? Yes. Are most Muslim-dominant countries poor? Yes. Poor countries tend to be more conservative and religious, it's why Turkey was a great example of the opposite until lately. 

[TUFKAK]

7 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

Yeah I'm aware but you have to also recall that Hamas is basically half political group, half gang. Palestine hasn't been a real country since it got taken over and to suggest whatever shambles governments they've been able to create in Gaza and the West Bank as "legit voting" in the way we do it in democratized nations isn't fair.

I mean this is all sincerity 

 

ever gone to Navajo nation