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Gaza/Israel Update (09/02): general strike/mass protests in Israel pressure Netanyahu to agree to cease-fire deal

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SuperSpreader

SuperSpreader

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European secret services: Number of deaths after hospital shelling lower than stated

 

According to European intelligence sources, not hundreds but dozens of people were killed in the shelling of a hospital complex in Gaza. “There are not 200 or even 500 dead, but more like a few dozen, probably between 10 and 50,” says the anonymous source.

 

Israel was “probably not” responsible for the shelling – this was indicated by “serious traces” available to the secret services. The source points out that the building was not destroyed. The hospital was probably evacuated beforehand, like a number of hospitals in the northern Gaza Strip, after the Israeli army ordered it.

 

 

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mclumber1

mclumber1

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Hamas deserves to be wiped out.  But the price that both Israelis and Palestinians will pay is incredibly high.  That's why it's important that the US work with both Israel and Israel's neighbors to evacuate (at least temporarily) noncombatants from Gaza and get aid to these people.  

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TUFKAK

TUFKAK

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10 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

Hamas deserves to be wiped out.  But the price that both Israelis and Palestinians will pay is incredibly high.  That's why it's important that the US work with both Israel and Israel's neighbors to evacuate (at least temporarily) noncombatants from Gaza and get aid to these people.  

Hard when Egypt says get fucked. But again, Israel is the only bad guy here.

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unogueen

unogueen

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Well shit turns out a sandwich isn't that simple.We have a big guy and a small guy here. But there's been this fuckup where Islam is a religion of violence and the other Abrahamic ones are not.The women are very special are they not? They ensure the future. Such essential biology should speak for itself when most of the likely Palestinian victims will forever be unrecorded youths. Sounds a lot like a branch of terf shit and essentialism.

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Commissar SFLUFAN

Commissar SFLUFAN

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?url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.apnews.com%2F5

Why Egypt and other Arab countries are unwilling to take in Palestinian refugees from Gaza

APNEWS.COM
As desperate Palestinians in sealed-off Gaza try to find refuge under Israel’s relentless bombardment in retaliation for Hamas’ brutal Oct. 7 attack, many ask why neighboring Egypt or other Arab countries don’t take them in.

 

 

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As desperate Palestinians in sealed-off Gaza try to find refuge under Israel’s relentless bombardment in retaliation for Hamas’ brutal Oct. 7 attack, some ask why neighboring Egypt and Jordan don’t take them in.

 

The two countries, which flank Israel on opposite sides and share borders with Gaza and the occupied West Bank, respectively, have replied with a staunch refusal. Jordan already has a large Palestinian population.

 

Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sissi made his toughest remarks yet on Wednesday, saying the current war was not just aimed at fighting Hamas, which rules the Gaza Strip, “but also an attempt to push the civilian inhabitants to ... migrate to Egypt.” He warned this could wreck peace in the region.

Jordan’s King Abdullah II gave a similar message a day earlier, saying, “No refugees in Jordan, no refugees in Egypt.”

 

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Their refusal is rooted in fear that Israel wants to force a permanent expulsion of Palestinians into their countries and nullify Palestinian demands for statehood. El-Sissi also said a mass exodus would risk bringing militants into Egypt’s Sinai Peninsula, from where they might launch attacks on Israel, endangering the two countries’ 40-year-old peace treaty.

 

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“Israel’s lack of clarity regarding its intentions in Gaza and the evacuation of the population is in itself problematic,” said Riccardo Fabiani, Crisis Group International’s North Africa Project Director. “This confusion fuels fears in the neighborhood.”

 

Egypt has pushed for Israel to allow humanitarian aid into Gaza, and Israel said Wednesday that it would, though it didn’t say when. According to United Nations, Egypt, which is dealing with a spiraling economic crisis, already hosts some 9 million refugees and migrants, including roughly 300,000 Sudanese who arrived this year after fleeing their country’s war.

 

But Arab countries and many Palestinians also suspect Israel might use this opportunity to force permanent demographic changes to wreck Palestinian demands for statehood in Gaza, the West Bank and east Jerusalem, which was also captured by Israel in 1967.

 

El-Sissi repeated warnings Wednesday that an exodus from Gaza was intended to “eliminate the Palestinian cause … the most important cause of our region.” He argued that if a demilitarized Palestinian state had been created long ago in negotiations, there would not be war now.

 

“All historical precedent points to the fact that when Palestinians are forced to leave Palestinian territory, they are not allowed to return back,” said H.A. Hellyer, a senior associate fellow at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace. “Egypt doesn’t want to be complicit in ethnic cleansing in Gaza.”

 

 

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At the same time, Egypt says a mass exodus from Gaza would bring Hamas or other Palestinian militants onto its soil. That might be destabilizing in Sinai, where Egypt’s military fought for years against Islamic militants and at one point accused Hamas of backing them.

 

Egypt has backed Israel’s blockade of Gaza since Hamas took over in the territory in 2007, tightly controlling the entry of materials and the passage of civilians back and forth. It also destroyed the network of tunnels under the border that Hamas and other Palestinians used to smuggle goods into Gaza.

 

With the Sinai insurgency largely put down, “Cairo does not want to have a new security problem on its hands in this problematic region,” Fabiani said.

 

El-Sissi warned of an even more destabilizing scenario: the wrecking of Egypt and Israel’s 1979 peace deal. He said that with the presence of Palestinian militants, Sinai “would become a base for attacks on Israel. Israel would have the right to defend itself ... and would strike Egyptian territory.”

 

“The peace which we have achieved would vanish from our hands,” he said, “all for the sake of the idea of eliminating the Palestinian cause.”

 

 

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TUFKAK

TUFKAK

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9 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:
?url=https%3A%2F%2Fassets.apnews.com%2F5

Why Egypt and other Arab countries are unwilling to take in Palestinian refugees from Gaza

APNEWS.COM
As desperate Palestinians in sealed-off Gaza try to find refuge under Israel’s relentless bombardment in retaliation for Hamas’ brutal Oct. 7 attack, many ask why neighboring Egypt or other Arab countries don’t take them in.

 

 

 

 

 

 

It’s Israel’s fault we won’t support people we say we support! 

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SuperSpreader

SuperSpreader

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11 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

“Israel’s lack of clarity regarding its intentions in Gaza and the evacuation of the population is in itself problematic,” said Riccardo Fabiani, Crisis Group International’s North Africa Project Director. “This confusion fuels fears in the neighborhood.”

 

They seem pretty clear to me 

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Commissar SFLUFAN

Commissar SFLUFAN

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2 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

Occupy it, secure it, investigate every citizen, root out Hamas, rebuild infrastructure - hire Palestinians to do the work but monitor and maintain it, eventually allow elections to be held and a constitution to be agreed upon (the Iraq plan basically)

 

Let's start with a very basic question: define "Hamas" as in who would be subjected to "rooting out".

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Commissar SFLUFAN

Commissar SFLUFAN

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8 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said:

 

I mean if Hamas is so engrained into Palestinian life then there's no solution. 

 

For example, is someone who works at the health ministry whose salary is technically paid by Hamas considered to be Hamas?


Because that's more or less what we did during our de-Baathification campaign in Iraq and we all know how well that particular endeavor worked out for everyone.

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SuperSpreader

SuperSpreader

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6 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

For example, is someone who works at the health ministry whose salary is technically paid by Hamas considered to be Hamas?

 

Nah. militants/soldiers and start a new force eventually that's kind of a joint run cooperative. If you're some Dr/paper pusher pass but keep them under a tight leash. 

 

I mean I don't know shit

But I know it's not gonna get better without direct control/involvement 

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mclumber1

mclumber1

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While the allies were able to effectively de-Nazifi Germany after many years of Nazi rule and and indoctrination, I'm not sure the same could be done to de-Hamasify Gaza.  At least the allies shared a common religion with the Nazis, which wouldn't be the case with Israel in Gaza.

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Commissar SFLUFAN

Commissar SFLUFAN

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7 minutes ago, mclumber1 said:

While the allies were able to effectively de-Nazifi Germany after many years of Nazi rule and and indoctrination, I'm not sure the same could be done to de-Hamasify Gaza.  At least the allies shared a common religion with the Nazis, which wouldn't be the case with Israel in Gaza.

 

The Allies -- at least in the Western sector -- really DIDN'T de-Nazify Germany very much at all.  Except for those with the highest levels of power and influence, practically all of those who either worked for the Nazis or who were members of the Nazi party remained in their positions without penalty.

 

In fact, the first governments of West Germany were heavily stocked with ex-Nazis.

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