Jason Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 8 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: emergency unity government How many Israeli government changes does that put us up to now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Trump Tells Allies He Wants Netanyahu ‘Impeached’ WWW.ROLLINGSTONE.COM Donald Trump has been trashing Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to allies amid the crisis in Israel and Gaza. Quote The former president is using the crisis to plot revenge on the Israeli prime minister who refused to buy into the lie that the 2020 election was stolen. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Security chiefs got wind of something amiss in Gaza, thought it was a drill – reports WWW.TIMESOFISRAEL.COM Netanyahu says he was updated only when devastating Hamas infiltration began at 6:29 a.m. Saturday; reports say top brass had 'scraps' of info, didn't raise alert or boost forces Quote Senior IDF and security officials reportedly held an assessment hours before the start of Hamas’s brutal onslaught on southern Israel on Saturday morning, having received “weak scraps” of information that something was afoot, but concluded that the activity in Gaza was likely a drill. In response to the reports, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he had not received any intelligence warnings from the security establishment before the start of the devastating mass Hamas infiltration, in which over 1,300 people were killed as terrorists rampaged across communities in southern Israel. “Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was updated at exactly 06:29 on Saturday, and not before, upon the outbreak of the fighting,” the Prime Minister’s Office said in a statement. “He immediately went to the Kirya [military headquarters in Tel Aviv], held an assessment of the situation and convened the Security Cabinet.” Quote The reports said that senior IDF and Shin bet officials, including IDF Chief of Staff Herzi Halevi, held phone discussions just a few hours before Hamas’s devastating infiltration, after indications of irregularities were noted. The generals reportedly concluded that the activity in Gaza was probably a drill, and agreed to hold further discussions in the morning. They reportedly chose not to raise an alert or boost forces to the Gaza border area, since the issue was not considered pressing. Quote Reports on Thursday cited two sets of telephone conversations held overnight Friday-Saturday between the Shin Bet security service’s southern district chief, IDF military intelligence, the IDF’s operations branch and the Southern Command, as well as Halevi. A separate consultation was hosted by Shin Bet chief Ronen Bar, Haaretz reported. While the Shin Bet assessed the information presented as “weak scraps,” the agency did fear the possibility of a kidnapping attempt and dispatched a small operations team to the south. No other steps were taken, Haaretz reported. During the mass infiltration on Saturday, the small Shin Bet team participated in the fighting at one of the kibbutzim attacked by Hamas, and some of its members were injured. IDF Spokesman Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari said Thursday morning that there were no major intelligence warnings, but confirmed there were some small early signs. “There was no such warning. The signs that came up hours before could be based on different intelligence signs,” Hagari said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted October 12, 2023 Author Share Posted October 12, 2023 Given the scale of the attack, and how long it took the IDF to respond, how much warning would the IDF have needed to prevent the attack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ort Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 I'm so sick of anyone being even remotely critical of Israel being labeled anti-semetic. FUCK THAT. I'm a fucking jew and Israel can go fuck itself. Hamas can fuck themselves too. Everyone, just go fuck yourselves. Everything about this entire situation is just a giant terrifying tragedy and let's stop trying to score points and dunk on each other and just shut the fuck up.. These fucking people... Anytime anything happens in Israel it feels like the entire American political media sphere just goes off the deep end. The rhetoric coming from everywhere is just next-level INSANE. 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Reuters has compiled what appears to be pretty comprehensive documentation of the atrocity across southern Israel. It goes without saying that it's very graphic. The deadly Hamas rampage across southern Israel WWW.REUTERS.COM Under a barrage of rockets, hundreds of Hamas gunmen stormed into southern Israel, unleashing death, destruction and despair on towns and villages. Quote Reuters has pieced together authenticated video footage and witness accounts that paint a picture of the unexpected ground assault by Hamas and rocket barrages that ripped communities apart and killed at least 1,300 people in Israel, according to public broadcaster Kan. With misinformation and disinformation clouding what actually happened on the ground in Israel, properly verified video footage, some of which is only just emerging, can play a critical role in establishing events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 As for the other ongoing atrocity: The morgue at Gaza's biggest hospital is overflowing as Israeli attacks intensify APNEWS.COM The morgue at Gaza’s biggest hospital, Shifa in Gaza City, is overflowing on the sixth day of heavy aerial bombardment on the territory. Quote The morgue at Gaza’s biggest hospital overflowed Thursday as bodies came in faster than relatives could claim them on the sixth day of Israel’s heavy aerial bombardment on the territory of 2.3 million people. With scores of Palestinians killed each day in the Israeli onslaught after an unprecedented Hamas attack, medics in the besieged enclave said they have run out of places to put remains pulled from the latest strikes or recovered from the ruins of demolished buildings. The morgue at Gaza City’s Shifa hospital can only handle some 30 bodies at a time, and workers had to stack corpses three high outside the walk-in cooler and put dozens more, side by side, in the parking lot. Some were placed in a tent, and others were sprawled on the cement, under the sun. “The body bags started and just kept coming and coming and now it’s a graveyard,” Abu Elias Shobaki, a nurse at Shifa, said of the parking lot. “I am emotionally, physically exhausted. I just have to stop myself from thinking about how much worse it will get.” Quote “We are in a critical situation,” said Ashraf al-Qidra, the spokesman for the Gaza Health Ministry. “Ambulances can’t get to the wounded, the wounded can’t get to intensive care, the dead can’t get to the morgue.” Lines of white body bags — soles of bare feet sticking out from one, a bloodied arm from another — brought the scale and intensity of Israel’s retaliation on Gaza into sharp relief. Hospital officials asked stricken family members to identify their loved ones. Some peered into the body bags, then collapsed into tears or screams. Israel’s campaign on Gaza has leveled entire neighborhoods, killing over 1,400 people, more than 60% of them women and children, according to the Gaza Health Ministry. More than 340,000 have been displaced — 15% of Gaza’s population. Israeli airstrikes on Thursday pummeled the heart of Jabaliya refugee camp, killing dozens of people — including 45 members of the same extended family, Gaza’s Interior Ministry said. Quote With resources stretched thin, clinics understaffed and ambulances taking hours to get victims to medical care because airstrikes have ravaged the streets, some say it’s not worth the trip. “We know that if a case is critical, they just won’t survive,” said Khalil Abu Yehiya, a 28-year-old teacher from the Jabaliya refugee camp in northern Gaza, whose neighbor’s home was bombed Thursday in a deadly assault that residents said killed many members of the same extended family. When more heavy bombardment hit the Shati refugee camp just north of Gaza City along the Mediterranean coast on Thursday, a new wave of wounded streamed into the hospital complex — toddlers with bruises and bandages, men with makeshift tourniquets, young girls with blood caked on their faces. Because Shifa’s intensive care unit was full, some lay in the hospital corridors, pressed up against the walls to clear aisles for staff and stretchers. “I’ve been to many places and seen horrors and shelling. Not this level of insanity,” said 36-year-old local photojournalist Attia Darwish as he watched the wounded pour into Shifa Hospital. Among those killed in the strikes on Gaza City’s Shati refugee camp was Yasser al-Masri, whose body arrived along with those of his wife and infant daughter. Medics circulated photos of al-Masri and his daughter, covered in filth in the same body bag. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 1 hour ago, Jwheel86 said: Given the scale of the attack, and how long it took the IDF to respond, how much warning would the IDF have needed to prevent the attack? I honestly don't think that long as the IAF could've been tasked to just start striking the staging areas in Gaza. This NYT article presents the timeline of the IDF response to the various attack sites: How Israel Responded to the Deadly Hamas Attacks: A Timeline - The New York Times WWW.NYTIMES.COM “Where is the army,” a woman texted her family after hiding from Hamas attackers for five hours. Here’s the evidence showing how long it took Israel to respond to the attacks on Saturday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 She’s officially with my dad in Utah. Gonna stay there for the foreseeable future. 2 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 55 minutes ago, TUFKAK said: She’s officially with my dad in Utah. Gonna stay there for the foreseeable future. Where in Utah? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 54 minutes ago, TUFKAK said: She’s officially with my dad in Utah. Gonna stay there for the foreseeable future. That's good to hear. It will likely take a while before some of the impact of the event really hits her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 14 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said: Where in Utah? Beaver, she got into SLC around noon. Being close to nature will be helpful I’m sure. 14 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: That's good to hear. It will likely take a while before some of the impact of the event really hits her. Yeah already prepping for that eventuality. Right now focus is her physical needs, but have sent resources and applications to my Dad for counseling, therapy, community resources etc. She left with legit just a backpack, told my Dad to just send the bill to me when she finally decides she wants new clothes and when she comes here we can get her nicer things. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 37 minutes ago, TUFKAK said: Beaver, she got into SLC around noon. Being close to nature will be helpful I’m sure. Yeah already prepping for that eventuality. Right now focus is her physical needs, but have sent resources and applications to my Dad for counseling, therapy, community resources etc. She left with legit just a backpack, told my Dad to just send the bill to me when she finally decides she wants new clothes and when she comes here we can get her nicer things. Beaver is nice and quiet. It’s usually my first stop for gas when driving towards Phoenix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoandGeo Posted October 12, 2023 Share Posted October 12, 2023 Wondering how long until the genocide begins. Both sides are fucking disgusting in this matter, IMO. One side uses world powers to help push a subset of peoples into a pitiful little corner... Of course you are going to have this kind of abhorrent lashing out. It sucks that innocent people are dying, but it's ridiculous that there are people that are blindly 100% on Israel's side on this kind of matter. They are just as bad as Hamas. They just wear suits while committing atrocities instead of wearing used tactical gear. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 2 hours ago, GeneticBlueprint said: Beaver is nice and quiet. It’s usually my first stop for gas when driving towards Phoenix. Yes, I’m grateful she’s in a place like that right now, like afternoon thunderstorms are a normal occurrence there. It’s a tragedy that some of our most beautiful places are in red states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 From the Washington Post: Israel says it dropped 6,000 bombs so far against Hamas targets Quote The Israeli air force said Thursday that it had dropped 6,000 bombs against Hamas targets so far, airstrikes it said hit more than 3,600 targets. For some experts in warfare, the number of bombs — 6,000 over the course of six days — was staggering. “Israel is dropping in less than a week what the U.S. was dropping in Afghanistan in a year, in a much smaller, much more densely populated area, where mistakes are going to be magnified,” said Marc Garlasco, a military adviser at the Dutch organization PAX for Peace and a former U.N. war crimes investigator in Libya. The highest number of bombs dropped in one year during the war in Afghanistan was just over 7,423, Garlasco said, citing public records from U.S. Air Forces Central Command. During the entire war in Libya, NATO reported dropping more than 7,600 bombs and missiles from planes, according to a U.N. report. During the U.S. invasion of Iraq in 2003, the United States dropped about 30,000 bombs, said Garlasco, who was a targeteer for the Pentagon and said he helped plan the strikes in Iraq. On the biggest night, Garlasco recalled the United States dropping about 800 bombs. “I’m kind of shocked that they were able to identify so many targets in such a short period of time,” Garlasco said of Israel. The Israeli air force is known to have some of the most precise weapons available, Garlasco said. “I hope they are taking all of the necessary precautions. But I am concerned this number speaks to a level of activity that may indicate that they’re not.” During the air campaign against the Islamic State in 2014 through 2019, the U.S.-led coalition dropped 2,000 to 5,000 munitions per month across all of Iraq and Syria, military affairs journalist Wesley Morgan pointed out Thursday on X, the platform formerly known as Twitter, citing a Rand Corp. report. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Before/After photos of an area of Gaza City: 3 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Israel tells UN to evacuate the northern Gaza Strip within 24 hours (Axios) Quote The Israeli Ministry of Defense and the IDF notified the UN just before midnight local time to evacuate its staff and notify Palestinians living north of Wadi Gaza that they should evacuate to the southern part of the Gaza Strip in the next 24 hours, UN spokesperson Stéphane Dujarric and another source with direct knowledge. The big picture: More than 1 million Palestinians live in this area. The message could be a signal that the Israeli military is preparing for an imminent ground operation. Quote What they're saying: "Today, just before midnight local time, team leaders of the UN Office of the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs and the Department of Safety and Security in Gaza were informed by their liaison officers in the Israeli military that the entire population of Gaza north of Wadi Gaza should relocate to southern Gaza within the next 24 hours," Dujarric told Axios. "This amounts to approximately 1.1 million people. The same order applied to all UN staff and those sheltered in UN facilities – including schools, health centers and clinics," Dujarric said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 The IDF has ordered all civilians to "evacuate" Gaza City. This is ethnic cleansing. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 More than 1.1 million Palestinians live north of the red line at Wadi Ghazzah; Israel wants to relocate all of them to the south of it in 24 hours. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Really great that everyone is gonna let Israel do a genocide. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricofoley Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 I don't have anything to say other than that this is all really fuckin' grim. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Just now, Ricofoley said: I don't have anything to say other than that this is all really fuckin' grim. I am honestly emotionally drained just contemplating what could very well happen in a matter of hours. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Oh well, this changes everything! Quote IDF spokesman rear admiral Daniel Hagari said in a briefing with reporters that the IDF understands the evacuation of civilians from the northern Gaza strip might take a few days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5timechamp Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Given enough time and sure enough White Phosphorus use begins to be reported.. Guess with the power outages in Gaza it will be more “challenging” to take pics or create record of the carnage… beheading babies is a beastly act… but so is blowing them apart through heavy explosives and dropping buildings on them… The cruelty will just escalate day by day Human Rights Watch says Israel used white phosphorus in Gaza, Lebanon | Reuters WWW.REUTERS.COM Human Rights Watch on Thursday accused Israel of using white phosphorus munitions in its military operations in Gaza and Lebanon, saying the use of such weapons puts civilians at risk of serious... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 i saw some photos from gaza (thanks twitter algorithm) and the scenes there are heartbreaking. fuck israel and the u.s. government and i said that shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 This thread and my step mom has become my only source of information, I’ve deliberately stepped back from the news for my own mental health. There are no viable solutions here, a whole lot of people are about to suffer for no reason 2 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 A joint statement by Israeli human rights and civil society organizations 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Israel is committed to going into Gaza at this point. I would figure the humanitarian thing to do would be to give time (more than 24 hours though!) to allow civilians to evacuate. It would be a much shittier thing if they didn't do this, in my opinion. Egypt needs to completely open up its border crossing. It will be a lot easier to bring in and distribute aid in the Sinai then it would be to bring in that same aid into the densely packed Gaza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Great. Just freakin' great. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 Look, I'm gonna be that guy and I've been hesitant to say it since I'm like 90% sure it's going to be taken the wrong way, but... Hamas is civilians. It's one of the two main political parties in Palestine. Hamas isn't some fringe group, it needs to stop being referenced as a military or group that can be directly assaulted. There are two major reasons civilian fall out is so high when attacking Hamas: 1.) they're embedded among non-armed members of Hamas and families, 2.) Israel doesn't give a shit about the collateral partially because of #1 (so it gives them an excuse to level areas). It would be like if another country declared war on the GOP. I'm not excusing Israel for the high level of non-combatant casualties, but the only way they could attack armed Hamas members without the casualties this high is a full blown ground troop invasion, which would probably wind up being just as horrific. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 7 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: Look, I'm gonna be that guy and I've been hesitant to say it since I'm like 90% sure it's going to be taken the wrong way, but... Hamas is civilians. It's one of the two main political parties in Palestine. Hamas isn't some fringe group, it needs to stop being referenced as a military or group that can be directly assaulted. There are two major reasons civilian fall out is so high when attacking Hamas: 1.) they're embedded among non-armed members of Hamas and families, 2.) Israel doesn't give a shit about the collateral partially because of #1 (so it gives them an excuse to level areas). It would be like if another country declared war on the GOP. I'm not excusing Israel for the high level of non-combatant casualties, but the only way they could attack armed Hamas members without the casualties this high is a full blown ground troop invasion, which would probably wind up being just as horrific. I'm fairly certain that very few (if any) of us on this board are unaware of the inherent nature of the Hamas organization as a political entity which naturally makes a military operation against them complicated beyond measure. What we're revolted by is the glaringly obvious collective punishment of the entirety of population of Gaza simply for their mere existence which is what this operation genuinely appears to be evolving into. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 3 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: I'm fairly certain that very few (if any) of us on this board are unaware of the inherent nature of the Hamas organization as a political entity which naturally makes a military operation against them complicated beyond measure. I'm sure that many are aware of it (the majority posting regularly itt), but given some of the responses I'm also sure many think they are a fringe terrorist group and not a leading political party. 3 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: What we're revolted by is the glaringly obvious collective punishment of the entirety of population of Gaza simply for their mere existence. I'm not disagreeing with that sentiment at all, in fact I even stated that Israel uses it (Hamas being a embedded among civilians) as an excuse to level the areas that they have and will. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted October 13, 2023 Share Posted October 13, 2023 1 minute ago, Spork3245 said: I'm sure that many are aware of it (the majority posting regularly itt), but given some of the responses I'm also sure many think they are a fringe terrorist group and not a leading political party. I'm not disagreeing with that sentiment at all, in fact I even stated that Israel uses it (Hamas being a embedded among civilians) as an excuse to level the areas that they have and will. Actually, I'll go as far to say that Hamas continues to grow as a major political party because of the shit Israel method/motto/whatever of "10x what you do to us". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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