SuperSpreader Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 45 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said: Hamas isn't going to win, Israel isn't going to win, no one wins this. Ok. Nice. 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyPiranha Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 1 hour ago, SuperSpreader said: That's why I said "somehow" - as in - if it were possible. What even is the point of such a ludicrous hypothetical? What if the underlying facts were completely different from what they are now, how would you feel then eh? Really makes you think doesn’t it. Trump is a fucking authoritarian moron backed by the worst scum to walk the earth BUT… if somehow the deep state were real then he would be our only hope to drain the swamp. Insert mind blown gif. Ask yourself a serious question, all of the people protesting in campuses, don’t really truly think that in some bizarre twist of fate that Hamas got the upper hand and began systemically executing Jews that they would all just… be happy about it? Do you honestly think that just below the surface, these people are virulent murder hungry antisemites? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted June 2 Share Posted June 2 54 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said: What even is the point of such a ludicrous hypothetical? What if the underlying facts were completely different from what they are now, how would you feel then eh? Really makes you think doesn’t it. Trump is a fucking authoritarian moron backed by the worst scum to walk the earth BUT… if somehow the deep state were real then he would be our only hope to drain the swamp. Insert mind blown gif. Ask yourself a serious question, all of the people protesting in campuses, don’t really truly think that in some bizarre twist of fate that Hamas got the upper hand and began systemically executing Jews that they would all just… be happy about it? Do you honestly think that just below the surface, these people are virulent murder hungry antisemites? What are you even talking about, you're just arguing to argue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyPiranha Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 20 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: What are you even talking about, you're just arguing to argue. You’re the one posing hypotheticals that are the opposite of reality in order to somehow prove a point against the other party, and I’m the one that’s arguing to argue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, LazyPiranha said: You’re the one posing hypotheticals that are the opposite of reality in order to somehow prove a point against the other party, and I’m the one that’s arguing to argue. Yes, it's very unlikely that Hamas could ever win. I've seen people outright justify what they've done as some sort of "fight the power" Americana bs. I'm not discussing a hypothetical, i think people protesting would turn a blind eye like they do every other issue that they can't reframe as some sort of hot take issue. Do you think Hamas will stop trying kill Israelis, ever? Is there ever a situation in which they would stop? The answer is only when they're all dead, from the river to the sea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Jack Lew discusses two-state solution and Saudi deal with 'Post' M.JPOST.COM US Ambassador to Israel, Jack Lew, spoke to The Jerusalem Post about the recent state of diplomacy amid the war, and what it might mean for the future of Israel-Saudi relations. Quote “I don’t think Hamas wants two states,” Lew said. “The only time they indicate they want two states is when they’re trying to put a little bit of a patina of legitimacy around their real strategy, which is the elimination of the State of Israel.” Quote A Saudi deal “would be a strategic move that would be transformative in terms of isolating Iran, with its proxies on one side and Israel with the moderate Arab world and the Western world on the other side,” he explained. Quote “Actions by other countries to unilaterally recognize a Palestinian state outside of the context of an agreement with Israel will not work, and the recent announcements of several countries do not help advance the process of a negotiated outcome,” Lew said. “If you really wanted to defeat Hamas and if you really want to defeat Iran, normalization with Saudi Arabia is a way to accomplish both of those goals,” he said. Quote “The basic orientation” should be: is this “a win or a loss for Hamas? Is it a win or a loss for Iran?” Lew said.But to arrive at a deal, Lew said, there must be a cessation of hostilities between Hamas and Israel, particularly given that the war has entered a phase, where success might better be achieved through diplomacy than on the battlefield. Quote “Negotiations are hard. Nobody ever wants to negotiate against themselves. Nobody wants to make concessions for things that are very difficult at a time when you don’t think it’s going to close the deal. “Whatever leverage we have, we have to make it work... There’s leverage being created by the United States and others putting pressure on Qatar and Egypt to put pressure on Hamas. There’s leverage being created by military operations. So it’s not a static point in time. We have to just keep pressing on every part of the system,” he said. It’s important that everyone stays engaged in the negotiation and even more importantly it succeeds, Lew stated. Quote “Other Arab countries are only likely to fund the reconstruction of Gaza if there is a credible plan for sustainable order in Gaza,” Lew said. “There is a broad understanding that transitional issues will be challenging, but there will need to be a credible plan to avoid either chaos, Hamas rule, or permanent Israeli control,” he said. “Governance in Gaza will need to involve Palestinians, and cannot be Hamas. Most civil servants in Gaza have worked for the Palestinian Authority. They will need to do the work, and there may need to be a transitional arrangement acceptable to all parties as the Palestinian Authority is being reformed,” he added. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 14 hours ago, LazyPiranha said: You’re the one posing hypotheticals that are the opposite of reality in order to somehow prove a point against the other party, and I’m the one that’s arguing to argue. 15 hours ago, LazyPiranha said: all of the people protesting in campuses, don’t really truly think that in some bizarre twist of fate that Hamas got the upper hand and began systemically executing Jews that they would all just… be happy about it? My brother in Christ, there are literally people, in the US, referring to Hamas as "freedom fighters" and screaming things like "we don't want a two state solution, we want the whole damn thing", as well as trying to justify the October 7th terrorist attack with BS like "Israelis got to find out how Palestinians feel". The hyperbole and absurdity in @SuperSpreader's post wasn't exactly hidden. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, SuperSpreader said: Jack Lew discusses two-state solution and Saudi deal with 'Post' M.JPOST.COM US Ambassador to Israel, Jack Lew, spoke to The Jerusalem Post about the recent state of diplomacy amid the war, and what it might mean for the future of Israel-Saudi relations. But you see replacing this guy with a Trump appointed moron (who literally will know nothing) is better for the Palestinian people. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyPiranha Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 15 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: My brother in Christ, there are literally people, in the US, referring to Hamas as "freedom fighters" and screaming things like "we don't want a two state solution, we want the whole damn thing", as well as trying to justify the October 7th terrorist attack with BS like "Israelis got to find out how Palestinians feel". The hyperbole and absurdity in @SuperSpreader's post wasn't exactly hidden. Sure, and you can find a lunatic fringe in any movement, you don’t get to paint the entirety of them with a single brush because of that. I never said there wasn’t a single disingenuous, vile, or straight up evil person on the side of the protests, and there never will be. If you want to start playing that game I’m sure people can find an equally horrifying number of sentiments directed at Palestinians specifically and Muslims in general, does that mean everyone is on equal footing because there’s scum in support of either group? It’s always just dodging the fundamental question. Do you honestly believe that the same students protesting on campus would just be sitting in their dorms getting high and watching Bridgerton or whatever if the shoe was on the other foot and the US was pouring money into Palestine while Hamas was leveling Israel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 6 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said: It’s always just dodging the fundamental question. Do you honestly believe that the same students protesting on campus would just be sitting in their dorms getting high and watching Bridgerton or whatever if the shoe was on the other foot and the US was pouring money into Palestine while Hamas was leveling Israel? My point was about Hamas' motivations, that peace cannot be achieved with them ever. So "not being involved" doesn't solve the issue, the example I gave is just to illustrate their core motivations. Now we're getting really deep into hypotheticals with this question - and I would say, historically speaking - nah they wouldn't do shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 12 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said: Do you honestly believe that the same students protesting on campus would just be sitting in their dorms getting high and watching Bridgerton or whatever if the shoe was on the other foot and the US was pouring money into Palestine while Hamas was leveling Israel? We killed how many civilians in Iraq? If the situation was somehow reversed I don't think people would care because a lot of people view it as an anticolonial movement. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 42 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said: f you want to start playing that game I’m sure people can find an equally horrifying number of sentiments directed at Palestinians specifically and Muslims in general, does that mean everyone is on equal footing because there’s scum in support of either group? I guess the problem here is that I never for one second suggested these people didn't exist as you have done in replies to @TUFKAK. There were people cheering in the streets for the Iran strikes. You can "whataboutism" all you want, though. I've said so many times that Netanyahu is one of the most vile people out there. 42 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said: Do you honestly believe that the same students protesting on campus would just be sitting in their dorms getting high and watching Bridgerton or whatever if the shoe was on the other foot and the US was pouring money into Palestine while Hamas was leveling Israel? In an alternate world, in the one that you're painting, where Israel is in the situation of Palestine and always has been; no. In the extreme hypothetical that I took from @SuperSpreader's post, where suddenly Hamas got funded by multiple other countries and somehow got the upper hand in this current fight? Yea, I think there'd be a lot of celebrating based on what I've already seen. Many on these campuses are chanting for "Intifada". Of course, you have many now backtracking claiming the word means "freedom" which is... certainly a take. The overall point of the post, as I took it, had more to do with Hamas' overall goal being the destruction of Israel vs people cheering. You seem to be reading his hypothetical extremely differently than I did, however. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 These hypotheticals are so goddamned ludicrous that they don't even qualify as "thought experiments". 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 1 hour ago, SuperSpreader said: Jack Lew discusses two-state solution and Saudi deal with 'Post' M.JPOST.COM US Ambassador to Israel, Jack Lew, spoke to The Jerusalem Post about the recent state of diplomacy amid the war, and what it might mean for the future of Israel-Saudi relations. Cool, none of that is possible without a security framework inside Gaza to prevent whatever new Gaza Government from getting slaughtered by what's left of Hamas. Unless someone says Egyptian Army, Hamas is going to continue to rule Gaza. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 1 minute ago, Jwheel86 said: Cool, none of that is possible without a security framework inside Gaza to prevent whatever new Gaza Government from getting slaughtered by what's left of Hamas. Unless someone says Egyptian Army, Hamas is going to continue to rule Gaza. I wonder if countries like Saudi Arabia see investment opportunities there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 2 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: These hypotheticals are so goddamned ludicrous that they don't even qualify as "thought experiments". Agreed, but in the context of a One State Solution it is relevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 2 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said: Unless someone says Egyptian Army, Hamas is going to continue to rule Gaza. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 2 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said: Cool, none of that is possible without a security framework inside Gaza to prevent whatever new Gaza Government from getting slaughtered by what's left of Hamas. Unless someone says Egyptian Army, Hamas is going to continue to rule Gaza. The PA sure as hell ain't gonna want to touch Gaza. The Egyptians will keel over dead from laughter if you suggested to them that they handle security duty in Gaza. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 7 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said: Agreed, but in the context of a One State Solution it is relevant. Anyone who suggests the "One State Solution" isn't someone who should be taken seriously. And I say this as someone who believes that the creation of the Jewish state in Palestine is (objectively speaking) the single biggest geopolitical blunder in history, even if it was an inevitability as a result of the Holocaust and represented a "morally correct" action. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted June 3 Author Share Posted June 3 3 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: I wonder if countries like Saudi Arabia see investment opportunities there. Or an embezzling opportunity with a "International Reconstruction Fund for Gaza" which throws mostly parties and little to no aide for Gaza, and when they're called on it they say "but Hamas". 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 7 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: The PA sure as hell ain't gonna want to touch Gaza. The Egyptians will keel over dead from laughter if you suggested to them that they handle security duty in Gaza. There's a reason they didn't take Gaza back when Israel returned the Sinai Peninsula Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 Press Release: Public Opinion Poll No (91) | PCPSR WWW.PCPSR.ORG Quote As we did in our previous poll three months ago, we asked the respondents in this poll what they thought of Hamas’ decision to launch the October the 7th offensive. A vast majority of 71%, compared to 72% in December 2023, say it was correct TLDR for Palestinian people, Hamas did nothing wrong, Israel is wholly in the wrong, and so is the U.S., and all political options suck; which, this part at least ya know, is true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 3 Share Posted June 3 2 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Press Release: Public Opinion Poll No (91) | PCPSR WWW.PCPSR.ORG TLDR for Palestinian people, Hamas did nothing wrong, Israel is wholly in the wrong, and so is the U.S., and all political options suck; which, this part at least ya know, is true The poll results would be utterly incomprehensible if they were any other way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted June 4 Share Posted June 4 On 6/3/2024 at 11:24 AM, Jwheel86 said: We killed how many civilians in Iraq? If the situation was somehow reversed I don't think people would care because a lot of people view it as an anticolonial movement. Fucking this so much this. All I’ve learned from this is sexual violence is ok to the people I’m aligned to politically under certain political/“colonial” contexts. I’ve stopped my donations to the IRC and the UC system as well, I’ll gladly put those funds into my brokerage instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/08/middleeast/four-israeli-hostages-freed-gaza-intl/index.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted June 8 Share Posted June 8 I mean I guess they achieved their goal but Jesus fuck that's a lot of corpses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 That’s war. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Pro tip: don't kidnap people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 29 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: Pro tip: don't kidnap people Big if true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 29 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: Pro tip: don't kidnap people Jews aren’t people newb! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted June 9 Share Posted June 9 Gaza journalist who wrote for Al Jazeera was holding 3 hostages in... NYPOST.COM A Gaza journalist was holding three hostages in his home with his family before he was killed by Israeli commandos during a rescue operation on Saturday, according to the Israeli military. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outsida Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 3 hours ago, SuperSpreader said: Gaza journalist who wrote for Al Jazeera was holding 3 hostages in... NYPOST.COM A Gaza journalist was holding three hostages in his home with his family before he was killed by Israeli commandos during a rescue operation on Saturday, according to the Israeli military. Holy Shit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUFKAK Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 Imagine that “with his family” Another dead terrorist, pity the rest of his bloodline still exists; I’ll still drink to that tonight. Dont forget to make a separation though guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyPiranha Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 4 hours ago, TUFKAK said: Imagine that “with his family” Another dead terrorist, pity the rest of his bloodline still exists; I’ll still drink to that tonight. Dont forget to make a separation though guys! Not for nothing but… Israel alleges journalist held hostages in Gaza, without providing evidence | CNN AMP.CNN.COM Three hostages rescued during a deadly Israeli military operation on the Nuseirat camp in central Gaza were held captive by a journalist, the Israel Defense Forces (IDF)... Given Israel’s nebulous relationship with the truth lately, I’m going to wait for actual confirmation before I go along with a story that conveniently wraps a bow on a bunch of their recent misdeeds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted June 10 Share Posted June 10 1 hour ago, LazyPiranha said: srael’s nebulous relationship with the truth lately Honestly, fog of war and all that. Neither side has been truthful. Hostages ARE being held with civilians as human shields by Hamas. And the population supports Hamas. You think this reporter who lives where hostages were held didn't at least know about it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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