Chris- Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 It's 2019, aren't we saying that words matter regardless of their underlying intent? Or are we giving people license to use whatever words they want so long as they are good people? Just because Omar isn't anti-Semitic doesn't mean it's OK to exchange in the terminology of anti-Semites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Just now, Chris- said: It's 2019, aren't we saying that words matter regardless of their underlying intent? Or we giving people license to use whatever words they want now so long as they are good people? Just because Omar isn't anti-Semitic doesn't mean it's OK to exchange in the terminology of anti-Semites. Please give specific examples of how you think she could have phrased the AIPAC thing without getting accused of "exchanging in the terminology of antisemites". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 When David Duke wholeheartedly agrees with you, it might be time to rethink your position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Jose said: When David Duke wholeheartedly agrees with you, it might be time to rethink your position. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Just now, Jason said: Please give specific examples of how you think she could have phrased the AIPAC thing without getting accused of "exchanging in the terminology of antisemites". By not making a pithy tweet about money, and instead coming out immediately with a more thorough response? It's not complicated. Moreover, let's not overlooked when she used the term 'hypnotized'. Again, I don't think Omar is an anti-Semite, and the Congressional response to her has been overblown. But if we are going to start to arguing that 'words matter', then they always matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jose said: When David Duke wholeheartedly agrees with you, it might be time to rethink your position. But like, for real, are we just gonna ignore how many people criticizing her think (((Soros))) is the mastermind behind tons of conspiracy theories? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 9 minutes ago, Chris- said: It's 2019, aren't we saying that words matter regardless of their underlying intent? Or are we giving people license to use whatever words they want so long as they are good people? Just because Omar isn't anti-Semitic doesn't mean it's OK to exchange in the terminology of anti-Semites. Of course I agree with you, but I don't see how using the word "hypnotizing the world" is automatically anti-Semitic either, even in reference to Israel/AIPAC. I'm not saying she shouldn't change her words or at least acknowledge to the world its more insidious alternative usage as anti-Semitic, but the discussion here has been whether Ilhan Omar is anti-Semitic, and I don't think she is based on the evidence has been my point from the start. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 libs are suckers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Jason said: But like, for real, are we just gonna ignore how many people criticizing her think (((Soros))) is the mastermind behind tons of conspiracy theories? People seem more interested in actually figuring out Ilhan Omar than discussing the insane hypocrisy of those who are criticizing her since that's par for the course and we all know it exists and will happen every time by now. That's my guess anyway - I think we should beat that horse to death forevermore personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 The Soros bs doesnt make her comments okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jose said: When David Duke wholeheartedly agrees with you, it might be time to rethink your position. Nah - I'm good! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Just now, RedSoxFan9 said: libs are suckers I can't believe the libs haven't learned yet the right just trolls the left to get them to go against their own advocates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Just now, Greatoneshere said: I can't believe the libs haven't learned yet the right just trolls the left to get them to go against their own advocates. Libs will fall for it every time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 minute ago, RedSoxFan9 said: Libs will fall for it every time It's their innocent naivete that makes them bleeding heart liberals in the first place (a good thing) but it's also their biggest weakness (see: what you and I just pointed out). The fact they think everyone else comes from an honest position, even David Duke, is mind blowing to me. Don't liberals watch Game of Thrones? Didn't they see Littlefinger? It's sad and tiring at this point. I wish they would get with the fucking program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: Of course I agree with you, but I don't see how using the word "hypnotizing the world" is automatically anti-Semitic either, even in reference to Israel/AIPAC. I'm not saying she shouldn't change her words or at least acknowledge to the world its more insidious alternative usage as anti-Semitic, but the discussion here has been whether Ilhan Omar is anti-Semitic, and I don't think she is based on the evidence has been my point from the start. Centuries of tropes about Jewish mysticism, but 'hypnotizing the world' doesn't tap into anti-Semitic language? Are you seriously arguing that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted February 12, 2019 Author Share Posted February 12, 2019 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 Take two seconds to think about David Duke’s intentions. Does he really like Omar or is he trying to get more people to pile on a Muslim congress member Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chris- said: Centuries of tropes about Jewish mysticism, but 'hypnotizing the world' doesn't tap into anti-Semitic language? Are you seriously arguing that? So I can never use the word "hypnotize" or other similar terms when referring to the actions of pro-Israel groups because it could be considered anti-Semitic? Even if the term is otherwise benign? I don't think Jewish people get to say I can never use "hynotize" in reference to a specific Jewish group or person's actions. It's not like the N-word or something. It's not like "kike" or anything else that is blatantly anti-Semitic. I'm pretty sure you can use terms like that benignly because unlike racial slurs or historic expressions like "blood and soil", hypnotize is used normally all the time. To assume it's tapping into anti-Semitic language is just as bizarre to me as assuming it isn't anti-Semitic. It's all about context, and in the context she said it I don't think she meant anything more by the phrase than as fluffy wording to make a point about propaganda. I'm not saying it shouldn't be addressed by Ilhan Omar, but it certainly doesn't make it, prima facie, the case that then she is anti-Semitic is my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 minute ago, RedSoxFan9 said: Take two seconds to think about David Duke’s intentions. Does he really like Omar or is he trying to get more people to pile on a Muslim congress member A BLACK Muslim at that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 6 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said: Take two seconds to think about David Duke’s intentions. Does he really like Omar or is he trying to get more people to pile on a Muslim congress member Who cares if we run out all the Democratic politicians as long as we get to feel smugly good about ourselves? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 22 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: But that context is totally different than Ilhan Omar, a Somali Muslim woman considered a marginalized person since she moved to the US in 1995, saying something about Israel/AIPAC and Palestinians, is nowhere near the same thing as an American white person saying an American black person is a "thug" in America. The analogy doesn't track to me. Again, I may be missing something with your analogy. In your example, of course I perceive it as at least subversively racist. Somalis are notoriously anti-Semitic. This is what you are missing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 For the record, I'm the only Jewish person on here, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Jason said: For the record, I'm the only Jewish person on here, right? I believe so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, Chris- said: Centuries of tropes about Jewish mysticism, but 'hypnotizing the world' doesn't tap into anti-Semitic language? Are you seriously arguing that? You know what? I'm going to concede that it does tap into the tropes of Jewish mysticism and reflects old anti-Jewish canards. However, because she is a member of a highly marginalized group, I'm gonna give her a "free pass" here that I wouldn't give to a member of the dominant groups of American society. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 minute ago, sblfilms said: I believe so. So you're okay lecturing the only Jew on here about whether or not this was antisemitic? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleG Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 4 minutes ago, Jason said: So you're okay lecturing the only Jew on here about whether or not this was antisemitic? I believe this is called goysplaining Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 5 minutes ago, Jason said: So you're okay lecturing the only Jew on here about whether or not this was antisemitic? Not going to go into this side show that you don’t even care about. A+ for effort though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 8 minutes ago, Jason said: So you're okay lecturing the only Jew on here about whether or not this was antisemitic? Just remember that you're a self-hating kapo! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 3 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Not going to go into this side show that you don’t even care about. A+ for effort though Glad to know you only care about that sort of thing when it's a cudgel you can use against people you disagree with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 minute ago, Jason said: Glad to know you only care about that sort of thing when it's a cudgel you can use against people you disagree with. I am actually curious about what you're talking about here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 21 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Somalis are notoriously anti-Semitic. This is what you are missing. They are? I have a bunch of Somali friends, one of whom was engaged to a Jewish man who died overseas during a bombing. Her family and community loved the dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 18 minutes ago, Jason said: So you're okay lecturing the only Jew on here about whether or not this was antisemitic? I got lectured on what is and isn't racism by several non-black members on this board a couple of times. Always nice to learn what YOUR experience is from people who have never experienced it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 2 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said: They are? I have a bunch of Somali friends, one of whom was engaged to a Jewish man who died overseas during a bombing. Her family and community loved the dude. It certainly isn't ALL Somalis, but a majority of adults in various surveys show their belief in typical anti-Semitic stereotypes. Growing up in that culture has effects on the language you use, even if you yourself don't harbor any animus when you use them. This is why I think it is good of Omar to acknowledge that the language she used carries the baggage of anti-Semitism even if she did not intend it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted February 12, 2019 Share Posted February 12, 2019 1 minute ago, sblfilms said: It certainly isn't ALL Somalis, but a majority of adults in various surveys show their belief in typical anti-Semitic stereotypes. Growing up in that culture has effects on the language you use, even if you yourself don't harbor any animus when you use them. This is why I think it is good of Omar to acknowledge that the language she used carries the baggage of anti-Semitism even if she did not intend it. It's just interesting that you had NO problem making that generalization about Somalis but went all in defending the intentions of folks who proudly wear MAGA hats. Why is one generalization ok but not others? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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