b_m_b_m_b_m Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 The Democratic party is a diverse, wide coalition where the Republican party is a homogeneous, narrow coalition. Different Democrats win different districts. Let the voters decide. This election we're running all of the above, centrists in very right States (manchin), liberals in right leaning States (Beto, Abrahms), liberals in purple states (Gillum), etc. The Dems gave up on the undercard during Obama's years, and now we have to rebuild. Let's see who gets elected this year before saying we need to do X because of 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 the "philosophical purity" argument is total bullshit. Bernie Sanders is nowhere near "pure" and people on the left still support him. 8 minutes ago, Chris- said: There won't be 'good candidates' until Democrats win seats. The longer Republicans are in control, the more time they have to consolidate their control through gerrymandering and the erosion of voting rights, and the harder it becomes to beat them with a leftist-Democrat as opposed to a centrist-Democrat. You want the egg before the chicken. The party may need to shift leftward, but that's not happening until it has room to do so. this is incremental nonsense. Democrats do not need to run centrist dipshits before they can run candidates on the left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 13 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said: The alternative is sitting in the corner with my arms crossed and holding my breath until Bernie wins the nomination? Shit right now all one can hope is to get to a point where they can minimize the effects of global policy on themselves and their families because this generation of Americans? Let's just say that the 60's would have looked a lot different if our generation was leading the charge back then. 8 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: The right will, with little exception, vote for whatever “R” is put in front of them, it’s practically a cult and has been this way for about a decade now. The left seems to always have so many varying viewpoints that no candidate is ever good enough for the entire party - it’s like “oh, I agree with 90% of what you support, but I can’t possibly support you because I disagree with 10%!”. No, I’m not saying Dems need to vote like a cult or put party over their own morals/ethics, I’m saying that they need to be f’n adults and look at the long game as well as what allowing the other side to win brings. Support Dems now, level the playing field, get the country back on a better track based on the platform of the party, THEN worry about inner-party bs. It sure seems like the part of the base that's frustrated always gets told "now's not a good time, an election's coming up" and then ignored until the next time there's an election coming up and they're frustrated that nothing happened between elections. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Also, Republican voters will vote for whatever "R" is put in front of them in large part because the GOP, almost to a fault, always runs on the rhetoric their base wants, instead of lecturing them about waiting until later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 If you want to change the party you register democrat and vote in the primaries, the general election isn't the place to do it, lol. In America's winner take all system sometimes your best option is the least worst. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, Jason said: It sure seems like the part of the base that's frustrated always gets told "now's not a good time, an election's coming up" and then ignored until the next time there's an election coming up and they're frustrated that nothing happened between elections. Probably because they dig their heels in, either vote third party or not at all, the dems lose, so it’s still not the time. As @b_m_b_m_b_m said, we need to see who wins and by how much, then possibly use that for indication of where to bring the party. With the way courts are being packed, districts are being more and more gerrymandered, and states as a whole are being more and more suppressive for voters. Losing now over “well, I like the MAJORITY of your platform, buuuuuut...” could potentially kill future chances of the party gaining control again, let alone allowing it to evolve to a better platform. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, Jason said: It sure seems like the part of the base that's frustrated always gets told "now's not a good time, an election's coming up" and then ignored until the next time there's an election coming up and they're frustrated that nothing happened between elections. No one has been told to be patient more than Black people yet we remain the Dems strongest base of support. Why? Because the alternative is worse and we seem to understand that better than other bases of Democratic support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, PaladinSolo said: If you want to change the party you register democrat and vote in the primaries, the general election isn't the place to do it, lol. Because Bernie voters were treated so well during the 2016 primaries? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: With the way courts are being packed You mean how Schumer is rolling over and helping McConnell do it? http://prospect.org/article/schumer-surrenders Yeah, voting for people like Schumer is clearly the responsible move here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Just now, Jason said: Because Bernie voters were treated so well during the 2016 primaries? They lost... put on your big boy pants and get over it. Bernie and Hillary had the same policy positions on like 99% of the issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 2 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said: No one has been told to be patient more than Black people yet we remain the Dems strongest base of support. Why? Because the alternative is worse and we seem to understand that better than other bases of Democratic support. Heaven forbid the Democrats try to offer something other than "we're not as bad the Republicans". And people wonder why Democrats have GOTV problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jason said: Because Bernie voters were treated so well during the 2016 primaries? They lost, and still forced Clinton to shift some of her policies towards Bernie's, so yes voting for Bernie changed the party, and thats even more evident by candidates openly backing medicare for all. This is America's system for better or worse, and the sooner people realize that voting for a Lib, Green, and 99% of the time an independent is just a waste of time, we'll all be better off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jason said: It sure seems like the part of the base that's frustrated always gets told "now's not a good time, an election's coming up" and then ignored until the next time there's an election coming up and they're frustrated that nothing happened between elections. the "now's not the time" shit is hilarious because it comes from the same people who complain about Republicans saying the same thing after a mass shooting. I'm curious to see how the "now's not the time" people think things will go if Democrats/centrists regain power in 2020. Spoiler alert: that also won't be the time for the left to criticize centrists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 3 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said: Bernie and Hillary had the same policy positions on like 99% of the issues. not true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Jason said: Heaven forbid the Democrats try to offer something other than "we're not as bad the Republicans". And people wonder why Democrats have GOTV problems. What are you talking about? There are Dems running on actual issues... the larger part of the problem is that issues don't matter in this country anymore like I said in my initial post to EITHER side because if they did, there would be NO WAY that an imbecile like Trump would have won. No way. And the Bernie Bros wouldn't have been so offended by Hillary because ultimately she and Bernie shared a lot of policy positions. Our elections boil down to cults of personalities now. 1 minute ago, RedSoxFan9 said: not true You're right.... it was probably more like 90% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 The fact that you guys are still fighting the same tired battle over two years later just shows how utterly pathetic the American Left well and truly is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 5 minutes ago, Jason said: Because Bernie voters were treated so well during the 2016 primaries? just wait till the 2020 campaign where liberals will call Bernie supporters racist because Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 minute ago, skillzdadirecta said: You're right.... it was probably more like 90% heritage foundation health plan vs medicare for all totally the same Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 minute ago, SFLUFAN said: The fact that you guys are still fighting the same tired battle over two years later just shows how utterly pathetic the American Left well and truly is. That's my point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: The fact that you guys are still fighting the same tired battle over two years later just shows how utterly pathetic the American Left well and truly is. Do shitty libertarians represent the American Left? Because they seem to be the ones that love to bring up Bernie Sanders the most, even though they would have NEVER voted for him had he won the primary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jose said: Do shitty libertarians represent the American Left? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 11 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: The fact that you guys are still fighting the same tired battle over two years later just shows how utterly pathetic the American Left well and truly is. looks like the center-left has no place in the world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 @Jason Would you have voted for Bernie in the general election had he won the primary? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 8 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said: looks like the center-left has no place in the world Centrism has no place in this world at this moment. As one of my favorite Cental American right-wing death squad leaders said in the 1980s: "The political center is like an anus - it is round, it stinks, and it is full of shit." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, Jose said: @Jason Would you have voted for Bernie in the general election had he won the primary? I would have voted for him if there wasn't a Libertarian option. No way would I have voted for Orange Mussolini. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 4 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: I would have voted for him if there wasn't a Libertarian option. No way would I have voted for Orange Mussolini. If there wasnt a Libertarian option? What is the point of saying this if there was? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted October 24, 2018 Author Share Posted October 24, 2018 I voted for Gillum over Graham and Levine in the primary because he was better on the environment, he was a more progressive option and an exciting one at that. The primaries are when it makes the most sense to sort out what kind of candidate we want. And this year, there are actually exciting liberal candidates running in purple/red states. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jose said: If there wasnt a Libertarian option? What is the point of saying this if there was? Because I prefered the Libertarian candidate over what was served up by the Democrats and Republicans? If Paul or Kasich had one the GOP nomination, I would have voted for them over Clinton, and maybe even Johnson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Would you have voted for Bernie Sanders over Gary Johnson in the GE? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 1 minute ago, Jose said: Would you have voted for Bernie Sanders over Gary Johnson in the GE? I said I would have voted for Sanders if Johnson wasn't running. Order of personal preference: Paul* (if he was the GOP nominee) Johnson Sanders Kasich* . . . . Turd Sandwich Clinton Trump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Right, so then talking about it is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 40 minutes ago, SaysWho? said: I voted for Gillum over Graham and Levine in the primary because he was better on the environment, he was a more progressive option and an exciting one at that. The primaries are when it makes the most sense to sort out what kind of candidate we want. And this year, there are actually exciting liberal candidates running in purple/red states. This is the reasonable approach but most on the left don't feel that way. If their candidate doesn't win, then they get pissy and indignant and stay home... policy consequences be damned. The Supreme Court should have been motivation enough ALONE for the left to get off their asses and vote but it wasn't. It definitely was on the right though. Trump has gotten two court picks and potentially a third or fourth depending on what happens in the next two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 this guy doesn’t like the article either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Article would have a point, but she won her primary with 77% of the vote https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Senate_election_in_Nevada,_2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted October 24, 2018 Share Posted October 24, 2018 Like this is insane... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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