cusideabelincoln Posted July 29 Share Posted July 29 2 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: I am currently trying to figure out if there is an answer to how do I tell if my CPU is affected? It feels a little bit like a fake panic. Are there issues affecting some people, sure. But it appears this has been going on since 2022. I’ve had my 13700KF since Dec 2022 and have not had any cases of repetitive crashing in games. So maybe if I had a problem CPU I would have seem it by now. It's not a fake panic; you are either lucky with a good CPU or your errors aren't bad enough to cause crashes yet. Use the Intel defaults and turn off the Turbo Boost. Memory-heavy stress tests seem to uncover any problems the best. y-cruncher - for all core and memory testing CoreCycler - for single core max frequency testing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 16 hours ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: I will need to check if I am even OC the CPU. I saw report that an intel statement was only on “some”. So perhaps I got lucky. Or perhaps I just haven’t degraded enough to see the issue. A couple of things to keep in mind: 1) A number of "stock settings" on some MBs were problematic (i.e. not to spec), which is the reason for the Bios update 2) Most MBs have automatic overclock modes (I think "AI Overclock" is literally the first option for me in my Asus's menu) 20 minutes of time now is a lot less of a hassle than if you eventually do have a problem you could avoid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 @Spawn_of_Apathy Intel's CPU instability and crashing issues also impact mainstream 65W and higher 'non-K' models — damage is irreversible, no planned recall | Tom's Hardware WWW.TOMSHARDWARE.COM Intel will replace impacted units but doesn't plan a recall. Quote Intel has now divulged that the crashing issue affecting 13th and 14th-gen processors impacts all 65W and higher CPUs, meaning even more mainstream un-overclockable models are impacted. Intel announced Monday that, even though it still continues to investigate, it had finally gotten to the bottom of crashing issues plaguing its chips. As we reported on Monday, the microcode update is coming in mid-August, but if the bug has already damaged your CPU, you’re out of luck — the damage is irreversible, and the chip will need to be replaced. Intel has no plans to do a recall, but it is replacing impacted processors. The issue began in December 2022 and has exploded since then. Consumers with Raptor Lake and Raptor Lake Refresh CPUs experienced crashes and BSODs during gaming and other workloads. Intel finally acknowledged the root cause: erroneous microcode instructing the CPU to ask for more voltage than was safe. Once the damage is done, there’s no going back. You can reduce the chance of the bug occurring by using the Intel Default Settings in your motherboard BIOS while waiting for the microcode update, but this isn't a guaranteed fix. Intel also revealed the full scope of the bug’s impact. We once believed the issue only happened with the most powerful Core i9 and i7 SKUs, but Intel says it’s much more widespread. The crashing issues could impact any Raptor Lake or Raptor Lake Refresh chip drawing 65W or more power. Furthermore, the bug also affects the mainstream non-K models and their K/KF/KS counterparts, Intel told the Verge. This doesn’t mean every Raptor Lake or Raptor Lake Refresh CPU will experience crashing issues. However, any customer who is or has been seeing instability issues on their desktop CPU should contact Intel Customer Support. “For customers who are or have been experiencing instability symptoms on their 13th and/or 14th Gen desktop processors, Intel continues advising them to contact Intel Customer Support for further assistance. Additionally, if customers have experienced these instability symptoms on their 13th and/or 14th Gen desktop processors but had RMA return merchandise authorization requests rejected, we ask that they reach out to Intel Customer Support for further assistance and remediation.” What’s troubling is that Intel has not and will not issue a recall for the affected CPUs. It also hasn’t halted processor sales pending the updated microcode rolling out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 There’s almost definitely going to either be recalls or class action suits for this They’ll replace affected CPUs but does that mean they’ll extend past basic warranty? That’s what will matter IMO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 I think they will have to. How many "regular Joes" will even hear about this to know to make the updates? That said, I would much rather do some basic changes now, and not have my CPU impacted than to try and get a warranty fix. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Fuuuuuuuck I guess I'll do the bios shit @#$@$$@@$@$@@!@!@!!@ Any idea if MSI boards are affected? This might explain why when I would try to have my ram run at spec it wouldn't boot and I had to lower the speed? (128 at 4800 is better for me than 64 at 6400 anyway) Is there a test to see if it's already been affected? I'd probably ask for a new one if so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 28 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: Fuuuuuuuck I guess I'll do the bios shit @#$@$$@@$@$@@!@!@!!@ Any idea if MSI boards are affected? This might explain why when I would try to have my ram run at spec it wouldn't boot and I had to lower the speed? (128 at 4800 is better for me than 64 at 6400 anyway) Is there a test to see if it's already been affected? I'd probably ask for a new one if so. I think every motherboard is potentially affected. Only way to check would be via stress tests, but I wouldn’t attempt it until after the update. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Dumb. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 24 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: Fuuuuuuuck I guess I'll do the bios shit @#$@$$@@$@$@@!@!@!!@ Any idea if MSI boards are affected? I would look at the Bios downloads for your particular MB, but probably. 24 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: This might explain why when I would try to have my ram run at spec it wouldn't boot and I had to lower the speed? (128 at 4800 is better for me than 64 at 6400 anyway) Is there a test to see if it's already been affected? I'd probably ask for a new one if so. I've never spent time looking into it, but I had the same problem overclocking 4 DDR5 sticks. It would pass with either of the pairs, but would fail with 4 sticks. About 8 months ago, my local computer store told me that this is a common complaint with DDR5 (and why they see so many DDR5 returns). YMMV 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 15 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: Is there a test to see if it's already been affected? I'd probably ask for a new one if so this is the one question every article and video seems to dance around and I haven’t been able to find an answer for. it seems the only way to know is to try something you know will degrade the chip and cause it to crash or wait for it to start crashing. Both suck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 2 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: this is the one question every article and video seems to dance around and I haven’t been able to find an answer for. it seems the only way to know is to try something you know will degrade the chip and cause it to crash or wait for it to start crashing. Both suck. Wait for the microcode update. Then test. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 17 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: it seems the only way to know is to try something you know will degrade the chip and cause it to crash or wait for it to start crashing. Both suck. yeah i'm not a youtube pc-part influencer with that kinda time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 17 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: i'm not a youtube pc-part influencer Well, not with that attitude. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 So mine is not manually overclocked, but does have intel turbo boost set to auto. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 10 minutes ago, Spawn_of_Apathy said: So mine is not manually overclocked, but does have intel turbo boost set to auto. Yea, that's the boost clock. I think that's part of the issue: mobo manufacturers are too aggressive with the boost clock voltages. It's not dissimilar from what was going on with AMD 7xxx CPUs not too long ago, however, Intel seems to be getting a lot more shit about it. I guess the difference is that this went on for years while the 7xxx issues popped up semi-quickly, however, some of those CPUs were literally exploding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 updated my stupid bios Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 1 minute ago, SuperSpreader said: updated my stupid bios ok now my temps seem higher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 So what’s going to be the method of applying this microcode update? mobo BIOS update? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 1 minute ago, SuperSpreader said: ok now my temps seem higher ok maybe not, maybe it goes higher after initial bios update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Just now, Spawn_of_Apathy said: So what’s going to be the method of applying this microcode update? mobo BIOS update? hopefully windows update Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 2 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: ok now my temps seem higher If it's anything like my bios, after you update it it basically clears everything to default so I have to redo the fan curves and any other options I had changed in there before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 2 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said: If it's anything like my bios, after you update it it basically clears everything to default so I have to redo the fan curves and any other options I had changed in there before. I don't touch anything, all defaults, maybe it makes sense to re-reset it to defaults next boot tho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 8 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: updated my stupid bios Is the BIOS with the fix out? I thought they said August? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 1 minute ago, Spork3245 said: Is the BIOS with the fix out? I thought they said August? MSI has an update from 3 weeks ago or so Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Just now, SuperSpreader said: MSI has an update from 3 weeks ago or so I don't think that has a fix for the issue: https://videocardz.com/newz/msi-addresses-intel-core-13-14th-gen-core-series-instability-confirms-new-bios-for-mid-august 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 3 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: Is the BIOS with the fix out? I thought they said August? Many of the "stock" bios's were not to Intel spec. Many manufacturers had to update their bios so they were giving the correct voltage to the CPU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 Asus had a BIOS update in 7/15 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 This is what Asus said about the new Bios for my son's MB. This is not the final fix, but should reduce the risk of degradation while waiting for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 5 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: Many of the "stock" bios's were not to Intel spec. Many manufacturers had to update their bios so they were giving the correct voltage to the CPU. I thought even “to spec” voltages in MB BIOS’ could still encounter the issue? I knew there were updates but I thought they were bandaids to lessen the early degradation vs the official fix? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spawn_of_Apathy Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 3 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: This is what Asus said about the new Bios for my son's MB. This is not the final fix, but should reduce the risk of degradation while waiting for it. Mine says the same thing, minus that last line. I don’t have that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 7 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: I thought even “to spec” voltages in MB BIOS’ could still encounter the issue? I knew there were updates but I thought they were bandaids to lessen the early degradation vs the official fix? Yes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 30 Share Posted July 30 They eliminate some of the problems. Not all of them / main problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cusideabelincoln Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 On 7/30/2024 at 11:19 AM, Spawn_of_Apathy said: this is the one question every article and video seems to dance around and I haven’t been able to find an answer for. it seems the only way to know is to try something you know will degrade the chip and cause it to crash or wait for it to start crashing. Both suck. Using the computer at all will degrade the chip, because the cores will boost to their max doing basic Windows tasks. Stress testing for a couple of hours isn't going to make it significantly worse; and if it did then you had a bad chip anyway that was going to die sooner or later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 I was all ready to drop by my local Best Buy and pick up the ROG Ally X and there is no stock. Seems like this launch is a shit show. Maybe this is a sign to not buy it but I want that bigger battery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted August 1 Share Posted August 1 All of the chips are "bad" in that they have (if Intel's statement tells the story) microcode that requests too much voltage some of the time. All transistors age or "degrade" over time due to voltage. Higher voltage causes transistors to degrade faster. All you will achieve right now by knowingly running extra voltage through your CPU is shorten its lifespan -- with nothing to gain if all you're doing is running a stress test. Will it meaningfully reduce the life of your CPU? Probably not. But, why do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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