Commissar SFLUFAN Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 That last episode was where I could REALLY see the budget for this show. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gamer.tv Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 I’m still really enjoying this. It does feel like the story is so broad and ambitious, there’s only a micro-progression in each episode for mos story arcs. I also need to know whether the ‘giant’ with the harfoots is an enemy or not, it’s eating me up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 12 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: That last episode was where I could REALLY see the budget for this show. ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 4 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: ??? He's saying the last episode clearly had very high production value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 I'm enjoying it but I still don't *get* LOTR, like it's enjoyable and all but... I don't get it. Like, some dude makes some creatures and one of them is like fuck this like the Christian story of the devil and then other creatures are made and they're all fighting over... A ring? But it doesn't give you superpowers at all, from what I can tell is it sends you to nightmare land and gives you massive headaches in slow mo. What gives? It's not like you get to Hulk out while wearing it. What's the deal with this shit? Who the fuck is Tom? Some grape eating wine drinking Greek myth trolling motherfucker? Fuck Tom. Why do we care if the elves die? They suck. They're just at their Parthenon waxing poetic and go sailing to some fucking fairy Island. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 5 minutes ago, SuperSpreader said: ??? 1 minute ago, legend said: He's saying the last episode clearly had very high production value. That's correct! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury33 Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 2 hours ago, SuperSpreader said: I'm enjoying it but I still don't *get* LOTR, like it's enjoyable and all but... I don't get it. Like, some dude makes some creatures and one of them is like fuck this like the Christian story of the devil and then other creatures are made and they're all fighting over... A ring? But it doesn't give you superpowers at all, from what I can tell is it sends you to nightmare land and gives you massive headaches in slow mo. What gives? It's not like you get to Hulk out while wearing it. What's the deal with this shit? Who the fuck is Tom? Some grape eating wine drinking Greek myth trolling motherfucker? Fuck Tom. Why do we care if the elves die? They suck. They're just at their Parthenon waxing poetic and go sailing to some fucking fairy Island. Tryingtoohard/10 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 11 hours ago, gamer.tv said: I’m still really enjoying this. It does feel like the story is so broad and ambitious, there’s only a micro-progression in each episode for mos story arcs. I also need to know whether the ‘giant’ with the harfoots is an enemy or not, it’s eating me up. I can't see him being an enemy. He's too innocent. He seemed worried that he had killed the fireflies, wants to help Nori and friends, and protected them. His magic is just not tested and under control. I can't seem him later getting all malicious. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 2 minutes ago, Brick said: I can't see him being an enemy. He's too innocent. He seemed worried that he had killed the fireflies, wants to help Nori and friends, and protected them. His magic is just not tested and under control. I can't seem him later getting all malicious. I'm convinced after this last episode that he's a Blue Wizard. Initially because of the fire when he landed, people thought he could be Gandalf (since he is associated with fire). But I think the Stranger is associated with ice and cold, instead (hence the fire going out after he landed, him extinguishing the fireflies, the ice in the well, etc). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 Well I watched it this weekend. And to think I was worried this would be like Shannara. The slower pacing is welcome. Wheel of Time producers and writers should take note. We are enjoying this and HotD. There is no reason to choose one over the other. I totally geeked out over the orcs. I would only criticize that sometimes things feel a little too predictable thus far. The dialogue sometimes seems a bit dry, but it seems consistent with lotr. The complaints are mostly bullshit. People that legitimately would have issues with the show would be those that don’t like high fantasy or slower pacing. The production values are stunning and I love the world. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyHell Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 17 hours ago, CitizenVectron said: I'm convinced after this last episode that he's a Blue Wizard. Initially because of the fire when he landed, people thought he could be Gandalf (since he is associated with fire). But I think the Stranger is associated with ice and cold, instead (hence the fire going out after he landed, him extinguishing the fireflies, the ice in the well, etc). I could be wrong, but weren't all 5 wizards sent as meteors to middle earth? I don't know what to believe about the stranger. I don't think he's an enemy, but Im also not sure he's an actual Maiar Wizard at all. I had a friend say that he thinks it's Gandalf, Because it would explain his fondness of Hobbits. But I'm definitely not willing to buy into that just yet, it seems too obvious. Also, the grey "robe" he's wearing could be significant, or it could be a red herring. There are so many people he could be. I just hope it's not a multi season mystery. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 On 9/25/2022 at 12:35 PM, SuperSpreader said: I'm enjoying it but I still don't *get* LOTR, like it's enjoyable and all but... I don't get it. I'm going to answer assuming you want to understand these questions, but I am aware that you might not actually care I'll add that I'm not a huge Tolkien buff, so I welcome others to correct any small details I got wrong, but this should be close enough to give you a better understanding. Quote Like, some dude makes some creatures and one of them is like fuck this like the Christian story of the devil and then other creatures are made and they're all fighting over... A ring? You're mixing up stories from different time periods. LOTR takes place in the "third age" so a lot of stuff happened before it. In fact, this show is about the second age! You are correct that there is a God and Satan mythology foundation. God makes "angels" and all the world and life. The Satan here is named "Morgoth" (also called Melkor), was originally the most powerful angel. Morgoth doesn't like God's creation and is jealous that only God can create thinking life and other stuff, so he has a temper tantrum, goes down to the world God created and just starts wrecking it. There's no other purpose than he hates God's creation and is jealous so he wrecks shit, life and land. This naturally starts big wars. During the war, he corrupts other angels. Sauron, is one of those angels he's corrupted. Sauron isn't nearly as powerful as Morgoth, but he's no slouch and becomes a head lieutenant for Morgoth. Sauron joins having different goals. Whereas Morgoth just wants to destroy, Sauron thinks everything is too disorderly and wants to rule it to make it more perfect. Sauron joins with Morgoth because breaking everything down that was there is at least initially in his interest. Eventually, Morgoth is defeated, but Sauron escapes. This show kind of picks up from there. Elves like Galadriel are hunting Sauron because they know he's out there, but he's been dormant for a long time now. Eventually, as this show will portray, Sauron is the one who makes the one ring (and directs the creation of other rings that the one ring can control to some degree). He pours his soul into it and it makes him more powerful than before when he wears it. He wages a war, and eventually loses. This marks the start of the third age. While Sauron loses, the ring is not destroyed and is soon after "lost." Because Sauron poured his soul into the ring, Sauron is not really destroyed either. Quote But it doesn't give you superpowers at all, from what I can tell is it sends you to nightmare land and gives you massive headaches in slow mo. What gives? It's not like you get to Hulk out while wearing it. What's the deal with this shit? The ring is far more powerful than we ever see in the LOTR movies. The problem is Hobbits don't really know how to use it, so the only effect they get is that it turns them invisible, which obviously does have its uses. If someone like Gandalf wore the ring, it would grant him far more power because he would know how to use it. Same goes for other more powerful characters like Galadriel. Typically, "going invisible" doesn't send you into a nightmare realm. Bilbo used the ring for many years with no such experience. In the books, that nightmare realm doesn't really happen even when Frodo wears it. The movies take a little poetic license to show that because Sauron is regaining his strength, which allows him to see you when you wear the ring, and being in the presence of Sauron is nightmarish. The ring has the extra danger because it's Sauron's soul, who is hellbent on controlling everything. So wielders of the ring start picking up that same mentality being corrupted by it, and that usually starts with their obsession with the ring itself. Quote Who the fuck is Tom? Some grape eating wine drinking Greek myth trolling motherfucker? Fuck Tom. I wouldn't worry about him too much. He's a primordial character of some sort who's existed since God's creation it seems. Similar to an angel, but maybe not quite the same. He doesn't really care a lot about the minutia of the world. But ultimately he's a small character in the story that people wonder about only because he's so unique and different from other powerful characters. Quote Why do we care if the elves die? They suck. They're just at their Parthenon waxing poetic and go sailing to some fucking fairy Island. The elves are actually pretty great when you think about their sacrifice. These guys basically lived in a paradise. But when Morgoth came down, the elves traveled to Middle Earth to save everyone. They did that sacrificing their own lives, whereas if they stayed in their paradise they would have lived indefinitely. Many of them then continue to stay after Morgoth's defeat because Sauron is still around and could fuck shit up. They stay to help all other life for thousands of years outside paradise and at risk of their own life. When the ring and Sauron is finally destroyed at the end of the books, the elves finally get to return to their paradise because the rest of the world no longer needs their help. It's pretty fucking selfless and they've earned the right to be a little arrogant! 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 2 hours ago, legend said: I'm going to answer assuming you want to understand these questions, but I am aware that you might not actually care I'll add that I'm not a huge Tolkien buff, so I welcome others to correct any small details I got wrong, but this should be close enough to give you a better understanding. You're mixing up stories from different time periods. LOTR takes place in the "third age" so a lot of stuff happened before it. In fact, this show is about the second age! You are correct that there is a God and Satan mythology foundation. God makes "angels" and all the world and life. The Satan here is named "Morgoth" (also called Melkor), was originally the most powerful angel. Morgoth doesn't like God's creation and is jealous that only God can create thinking life and other stuff, so he has a temper tantrum, goes down to the world God created and just starts wrecking it. There's no other purpose than he hates God's creation and is jealous so he wrecks shit, life and land. This naturally starts big wars. During the war, he corrupts other angels. Sauron, is one of those angels he's corrupted. Sauron isn't nearly as powerful as Morgoth, but he's no slouch and becomes a head lieutenant for Morgoth. Sauron joins having different goals. Whereas Morgoth just wants to destroy, Sauron thinks everything is too disorderly and wants to rule it to make it more perfect. Sauron joins with Morgoth because breaking everything down that was there is at least initially in his interest. Eventually, Morgoth is defeated, but Sauron escapes. This show kind of picks up from there. Elves like Galadriel are hunting Sauron because they know he's out there, but he's been dormant for a long time now. Eventually, as this show will portray, Sauron is the one who makes the one ring (and directs the creation of other rings that the one ring can control to some degree). He pours his soul into it and it makes him more powerful than before when he wears it. He wages a war, and eventually loses. This marks the start of the third age. While Sauron loses, the ring is not destroyed and is soon after "lost." Because Sauron poured his soul into the ring, Sauron is not really destroyed either. The ring is far more powerful than we ever see in the LOTR movies. The problem is Hobbits don't really know how to use it, so the only effect they get is that it turns them invisible, which obviously does have its uses. If someone like Gandalf wore the ring, it would grant him far more power because he would know how to use it. Same goes for other more powerful characters like Galadriel. Typically, "going invisible" doesn't send you into a nightmare realm. Bilbo used the ring for many years with no such experience. In the books, that nightmare realm doesn't really happen even when Frodo wears it. The movies take a little poetic license to show that because Sauron is regaining his strength, which allows him to see you when you wear the ring, and being in the presence of Sauron is nightmarish. The ring has the extra danger because it's Sauron's soul, who is hellbent on controlling everything. So wielders of the ring start picking up that same mentality being corrupted by it, and that usually starts with their obsession with the ring itself. I wouldn't worry about him too much. He's a primordial character of some sort who's existed since God's creation it seems. Similar to an angel, but maybe not quite the same. He doesn't really care a lot about the minutia of the world. But ultimately he's a small character in the story that people wonder about only because he's so unique and different from other powerful characters. The elves are actually pretty great when you think about their sacrifice. These guys basically lived in a paradise. But when Morgoth came down, the elves traveled to Middle Earth to save everyone. They did that sacrificing their own lives, whereas if they stayed in their paradise they would have lived indefinitely. Many of them then continue to stay after Morgoth's defeat because Sauron is still around and could fuck shit up. They stay to help all other life for thousands of years outside paradise and at risk of their own life. When the ring and Sauron is finally destroyed at the end of the books, the elves finally get to return to their paradise because the rest of the world no longer needs their help. It's pretty fucking selfless and they've earned the right to be a little arrogant! jk 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted September 26, 2022 Share Posted September 26, 2022 3 hours ago, legend said: I'm going to answer assuming you want to understand these questions, but I am aware that you might not actually care I'll add that I'm not a huge Tolkien buff, so I welcome others to correct any small details I got wrong, but this should be close enough to give you a better understanding. You're mixing up stories from different time periods. LOTR takes place in the "third age" so a lot of stuff happened before it. In fact, this show is about the second age! You are correct that there is a God and Satan mythology foundation. God makes "angels" and all the world and life. The Satan here is named "Morgoth" (also called Melkor), was originally the most powerful angel. Morgoth doesn't like God's creation and is jealous that only God can create thinking life and other stuff, so he has a temper tantrum, goes down to the world God created and just starts wrecking it. There's no other purpose than he hates God's creation and is jealous so he wrecks shit, life and land. This naturally starts big wars. During the war, he corrupts other angels. Sauron, is one of those angels he's corrupted. Sauron isn't nearly as powerful as Morgoth, but he's no slouch and becomes a head lieutenant for Morgoth. Sauron joins having different goals. Whereas Morgoth just wants to destroy, Sauron thinks everything is too disorderly and wants to rule it to make it more perfect. Sauron joins with Morgoth because breaking everything down that was there is at least initially in his interest. Eventually, Morgoth is defeated, but Sauron escapes. This show kind of picks up from there. Elves like Galadriel are hunting Sauron because they know he's out there, but he's been dormant for a long time now. Eventually, as this show will portray, Sauron is the one who makes the one ring (and directs the creation of other rings that the one ring can control to some degree). He pours his soul into it and it makes him more powerful than before when he wears it. He wages a war, and eventually loses. This marks the start of the third age. While Sauron loses, the ring is not destroyed and is soon after "lost." Because Sauron poured his soul into the ring, Sauron is not really destroyed either. The ring is far more powerful than we ever see in the LOTR movies. The problem is Hobbits don't really know how to use it, so the only effect they get is that it turns them invisible, which obviously does have its uses. If someone like Gandalf wore the ring, it would grant him far more power because he would know how to use it. Same goes for other more powerful characters like Galadriel. Typically, "going invisible" doesn't send you into a nightmare realm. Bilbo used the ring for many years with no such experience. In the books, that nightmare realm doesn't really happen even when Frodo wears it. The movies take a little poetic license to show that because Sauron is regaining his strength, which allows him to see you when you wear the ring, and being in the presence of Sauron is nightmarish. The ring has the extra danger because it's Sauron's soul, who is hellbent on controlling everything. So wielders of the ring start picking up that same mentality being corrupted by it, and that usually starts with their obsession with the ring itself. I wouldn't worry about him too much. He's a primordial character of some sort who's existed since God's creation it seems. Similar to an angel, but maybe not quite the same. He doesn't really care a lot about the minutia of the world. But ultimately he's a small character in the story that people wonder about only because he's so unique and different from other powerful characters. The elves are actually pretty great when you think about their sacrifice. These guys basically lived in a paradise. But when Morgoth came down, the elves traveled to Middle Earth to save everyone. They did that sacrificing their own lives, whereas if they stayed in their paradise they would have lived indefinitely. Many of them then continue to stay after Morgoth's defeat because Sauron is still around and could fuck shit up. They stay to help all other life for thousands of years outside paradise and at risk of their own life. When the ring and Sauron is finally destroyed at the end of the books, the elves finally get to return to their paradise because the rest of the world no longer needs their help. It's pretty fucking selfless and they've earned the right to be a little arrogant! Good bot. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted September 26, 2022 Author Share Posted September 26, 2022 Wife and I finally started watching this weekend, but we're knot entirely caught up, so I haven't read all the conversation here. Overall I think the highest possible praise I can give the show is that it feels like Lord of the Rings. Everything from the language to the production design to the music to the casting oozes that same magic that Jackson captured with the rings trilogy. It's almost astonishing how well they're able to re-create the essence of those films while telling a new story. It's far from perfect, but it's so much better than I could have hoped. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzzzle Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Aside from all the racism disguised as "staying true to the lore," I think the reason a lot of super nerds don't like the show is that they find nitpicky things they don't like, but rather than just shrug them off and enjoy the show like I do, they get hung up on every detail not being identical to the books. I think they forget that a lot of those super nerds probably got introduced to the world of middle earth THROUGH the movies, and the movies changed all kinds of little nitpicky things, omitted characters, etc. Only now they have 20 years of pent up nerd rage. As soon as the show was announced, they couldn't wait to start going "well *actually* ..." the whole time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Here's the Wandering Day montage. So fantastic. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 18 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: Here's the Wandering Day montage. So fantastic. Had me in TEARS. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Only two episodes left Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ort Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 6 minutes ago, Spork3245 said: Only two episodes left Hey, good news... THREE episodes left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Just now, ort said: Hey, good news... THREE episodes left. Oh, a youtube channel I watch was saying there's only two more, but I just looked and you're right, there should be 8 total. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 1 hour ago, CayceG said: Had me in TEARS. To me, this show really drives home the fact that Hobbits/Harfoot are the soul of the LOTR universe, and without them it wouldn't be nearly as soulful. When people complain online about the Harfoots not being important to the story (and therefore boring), I immediately know that it's a chadbro who just wants giant battles and plot movement, but no actual soul to the story. Basically, wanting only the battle scenes in Saving Private Ryan, and nothing with the characters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 32 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: To me, this show really drives home the fact that Hobbits/Harfoot are the soul of the LOTR universe, and without them it wouldn't be nearly as soulful. When people complain online about the Harfoots not being important to the story (and therefore boring), I immediately know that it's a chadbro who just wants giant battles and plot movement, but no actual soul to the story. Basically, wanting only the battle scenes in Saving Private Ryan, and nothing with the characters. I'm not sure exactly how you can love Hobbits in LOTR and dislike Harfoots in this show. That makes no sense to me. Do these chadbros hate LOTR up until Frodo leaves the Shire? Because until they hook up with Aragorn, there's A LOT of Harfoot-type behavior by Hobbits in LOTR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLeon Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 Nori is probably my favorite character on the show so far. People who don’t like the Harfoots are doofuses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 38 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: I'm not sure exactly how you can love Hobbits in LOTR and dislike Harfoots in this show. That makes no sense to me. Do these chadbros hate LOTR up until Frodo leaves the Shire? Because until they hook up with Aragorn, there's A LOT of Harfoot-type behavior by Hobbits in LOTR. Honestly, I've talked with people who tried to read the books, but never got very far. Their main criticism is that they don't like all the Hobbit stuff. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted September 27, 2022 Share Posted September 27, 2022 11 minutes ago, CayceG said: Honestly, I've talked with people who tried to read the books, but never got very far. Their main criticism is that they don't like all the Hobbit stuff. I mean, that's somewhat understandable because it takes quite awhile, and over the stretch of 12 years I think, for Frodo to finally leave the Shire in the book, there's a lot of pre-planning and buildup the movie simply skips over to get things going. I don't imagine chadbros read, so I assumed they saw the movie version only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mercury33 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 I still say I want a whole spin off show about the Harfoots Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLeon Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 And from a different angle: we don’t like Harfoots because they don’t act exactly like LOTR’s hobbits. At least they don’t complain about the racial makeup of the people playing them, but this seems like a particularly dumb thing to have such a big problem with. They act differently from the Hobbits of the Shire! Why!? Maybe because they’re completely different people, living in a completely different era! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 17 minutes ago, TheLeon said: And from a different angle: we don’t like Harfoots because they don’t act exactly like LOTR’s hobbits. At least they don’t complain about the racial makeup of the people playing them, but this seems like a particularly dumb thing to have such a big problem with. They act differently from the Hobbits of the Shire! Why!? Maybe because they’re completely different people, living in a completely different era! This makes me wish they did Stoors instead of Harfoots. They were the least hobbit-like of the hobbit ancestors and even wore fancy boots (the fancier the boot, the higher the social status) and were kinda dwarf-like. The nerd-rage of people who only watched the movies would have been amazing. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 1 hour ago, TheLeon said: And from a different angle: we don’t like Harfoots because they don’t act exactly like LOTR’s hobbits. At least they don’t complain about the racial makeup of the people playing them, but this seems like a particularly dumb thing to have such a big problem with. They act differently from the Hobbits of the Shire! Why!? Maybe because they’re completely different people, living in a completely different era! This show about the Romans (precursors to the Americans by 2,000 years) doesn't have them acting like Americans! Outrageous! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted September 28, 2022 Share Posted September 28, 2022 Four pictures from episode. Spoilers! Spoiler Complaints from people pre-Ep 6: Ugh, this show is so slow and boring, the plot isn't fast enough Complaints from those people post-Ep6: It doesn't make sense how things moved so quickly. And Galadriel should smile more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
69los Posted September 30, 2022 Share Posted September 30, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firewithin Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 Excellent battle episode! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 Holy shit, that was the birth of: Spoiler the birth of Mount Doom, the fire/forge which will create the One Ring. Sauron is ten steps ahead of all of our heroes. Great episode, loved it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzzzle Posted October 1, 2022 Share Posted October 1, 2022 Hell yeah brother, give me some more. I do kind of wish they came up with another name for the "Southlands." Like, surely the people of the Southlands wouldn't have called it that themselves. I do think we'll get a reveal on who Sauron is by the end of the season. I still hope it's someone we haven't met yet. Spoiler Though Halbrand has definitely done some very Sauron-y things. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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