Television X-Men '97 (Disney+) - update: series creator fired days before premiere, "A New Age" trailer

[Kal-El814]

6 hours ago, Spork3245 said:

My question regarding Morph: since when did he gain the powers of whoever he is morphing into? I don’t recall this in the original, but I’m unfamiliar with what they did with him in the comics (I know Morph is a Harley Quinn type in that he was created for the show and gained enough popularity to be put into comics). I assume the abilities he gets are greatly reduced compared to the actual person? Otherwise, he’d easily be the most powerful mutant in existence.

 

The character had been in the comics since the 60's where he's called Changeling. They called him Morph on the cartoon because of a potential copyright dispute with DC IIRC. The cartoon raised his profile and he's been around more often since. I don't think he's ever been able to use the powers of whoever he changed into in the comics though.

 

11 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

Ororo is probably one of the most powerful mutants considering the nature of her abilities, right?

 

Yeah Storm is consistently portrayed as one of the most powerful mutants.

 

I always chuckle when people complain about the X-Men going woke, as if the X-Men were relevant before relaunching as a deliberately more diverse team where a black woman was the most powerful character. If they didn't go woke they'd have stayed broke.

 

9 hours ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

Yeah I stopped reading probably about the halfway point of what will ever be released. Too much outer space and galactic travel and aliens blah blah blah. I mean that’s always been at least a part of X-Men but it was never the interesting part. And it seemed way too focused on that kind of stuff. Up to the point I stopped reading at least. 

 

So much of the X-Men comics are the interstellar stuff which I've personally found less interesting than the earth based stuff, but I guess people seem to like it. I think the movies avoiding that has probably been to that franchise's benefit. The MCU at this point has a lot of space stuff, so who knows what arcs they'll decide to do when the X-Men inevitably show up there.

 

Then again if they have the courage to cast a 5'3" man as Wolverine they can do whatever they want.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

The one weakness of this series is that its breakneck, frenetic pace leaves little room for quieter moments that would more fully lend substance to Xavier's ideal that humanity is worth co-existing with.  Practically every human character with whom the mutants interact is depicted unsympathetically (at best!) which means that Magneto's position is essentially portrayed as the "correct" one by default and Xavier's idealism is portrayed as wishful thinking at best and downright stupidity at worst.

 

I do wish the episodes were a bit longer or that there were more of them so that the pace could be slowed down just a little bit.

[Spork3245]

16 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

The character had been in the comics since the 60's where he's called Changeling. They called him Morph on the cartoon because of a potential copyright dispute with DC IIRC. The cartoon raised his profile and he's been around more often since. I don't think he's ever been able to use the powers of whoever he changed into in the comics though.

 

Interesting. I remember reading that they made a new character just so they had someone to "kill off" in the first episode so no one would care.

[69los]

40 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

The character had been in the comics since the 60's where he's called Changeling. They called him Morph on the cartoon because of a potential copyright dispute with DC IIRC. The cartoon raised his profile and he's been around more often since. I don't think he's ever been able to use the powers of whoever he changed into in the comics though.

 

 

Morph was a popular character during Age of Apocalypse and was able to take over others' mutant abilities there. I stopped reading after Morrison's New X-Men so I don't know if he ever came back to the original timeline with these new abilities. In the cartoon universe, I don't believe he had this ability in the original series but something may have triggered it during Sinister's "care".

 

I stand corrected.

 

Kevin Sidney (Earth-295) | Marvel Database | Fandom

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He did not obtain their full abilities, just physical abilities. Sounds like he could mimic Sabtetooth's brute strength but wouldn't have his healing factor. I still say it's Sinister's doing though.

 

[Kal-El814]

38 minutes ago, 69los said:

 

Morph was a popular character during Age of Apocalypse and was able to take over others' mutant abilities there. I stopped reading after Morrison's New X-Men so I don't know if he ever came back to the original timeline with these new abilities. In the cartoon universe, I don't believe he had this ability in the original series but something may have triggered it during Sinister's "care".

 

I stand corrected.

 

Kevin Sidney (Earth-295) | Marvel Database | Fandom

MARVEL.FANDOM.COM

---

11 appearance(s) of Kevin Sidney (Earth-295) 2 minor appearance(s) of Kevin Sidney (Earth-295) 8 image(s) of Kevin Sidney (Earth-295)

 

He did not obtain their full abilities, just physical abilities. Sounds like he could mimic Sabtetooth's brute strength but wouldn't have his healing factor. I still say it's Sinister's doing though.

 

 

Oooh right I forgot he was kinda "powered up" in AoA.

[Kal-El814]

On 5/9/2024 at 9:21 AM, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

The one weakness of this series is that its breakneck, frenetic pace leaves little room for quieter moments that would more fully lend substance to Xavier's ideal that humanity is worth co-existing with.  Practically every human character with whom the mutants interact is depicted unsympathetically (at best!) which means that Magneto's position is essentially portrayed as the "correct" one by default and Xavier's idealism is portrayed as wishful thinking at best and downright stupidity at worst.

 

I do wish the episodes were a bit longer or that there were more of them so that the pace could be slowed down just a little bit.

 

Yeah this is true.

 

One of my longer term X-Men issues is that while Magneto is a rich character, he ever so often just decides to do a genocide. I assume some of getting Charles involved in The Illuminati (that name will never not be hilarious to me) or with the Xavier Protocols is to show that he's no white knight, but it's still comparing apples to genocidal oranges.

 

In this regard I think '97 is better... having the show start off with a somewhat clean slate for Magneto running the X-Men, then having him go ape almost immediately after Genosha before cooler heads may prevail, while also showing that Rogue may have lost her shit for a moment with Trask and then seems concerned about it thereafter... it's good contrast. Magneto really isn't even given a minute to breathe. Him running on instinct and that being to attack feels right.

 

But in general I agree.

 

Besides it's not like the franchise has always wielded its metaphor well.

 

 

That slogan... YIKES.

[Keyser_Soze]

33 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

That slogan... YIKES.

 

 

If you think that's bad wait till you see the actual movie! 😬

[MarSolo]

2 hours ago, Keyser_Soze said:

 

 

If you think that's bad wait till you see the actual movie! 😬

Hilariously enough, I just started rewatching them. Man, it’s INSANE how young Patrick Stewart, Ian McKellan, and even HUGH JACKMAN look in the first movie. 
 

I also forgot they had Halle Berry try an accent in the first one.

 

Also, I don’t think there’s been as powerful an opening scene in a comic book movie as Magneto in the camp when his powers awaken.

[Kal-El814]

17 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

Hilariously enough, I just started rewatching them. Man, it’s INSANE how young Patrick Stewart, Ian McKellan, and even HUGH JACKMAN look in the first movie. 
 

I also forgot they had Halle Berry try an accent in the first one.

 

Also, I don’t think there’s been as powerful an opening scene in a comic book movie as Magneto in the camp when his powers awaken.

 

The biggest issue with the original X-Men movie is that it starts of really strong and then just... never really gets interesting afterwards.

[MarSolo]

1 hour ago, Kal-El814 said:

 

The biggest issue with the original X-Men movie is that it starts of really strong and then just... never really gets interesting afterwards.

The movie never reaches the high of that opening scene again outside of any scenes between Xavier and Magneto.
 

The movies in general either REALLY hit or REALLY miss. But the misses have some great things in them; like the third movie with casting Kelsey Grammer as Beast. The movie stinks, but he SHINES. And there’s the line where Magneto shows the number tattoo to the one mutant and says “no needle shall ever pierce my skin again”.

[Greatoneshere]

30 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

The movie never reaches the high of that opening scene again outside of any scenes between Xavier and Magneto.
 

The movies in general either REALLY hit or REALLY miss. But the misses have some great things in them; like the third movie with casting Kelsey Grammer as Beast. The movie stinks, but he SHINES. And there’s the line where Magneto shows the number tattoo to the one mutant and says “no needle shall ever pierce my skin again”.

 

Yeah I agree with this. Even the third movie has some good parts about it, especially in hindsight seeing where DCU and MCU movies have gone in recent years. And I'm surprised people don't like the first one? I think it holds up really well. Yes, it feels like a "small" movie compared to movies these days, but there are less action scenes and more character work than in modern superhero movies and for that I'm deeply appreciative. It's much more of a real movie than Thor 4 or Doctor Strange 2 or Ant-Man 3, that's for sure. 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

The first two X-Men films are better than the entirety of the DCU/MCU combined.

[Kal-El814]

2 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

The first two X-Men films are better than the entirety of the DCU/MCU combined.

 

How was your dinner with RFK Jr?  

[GeneticBlueprint]

2 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

The first two X-Men films are better than the entirety of the DCU/MCU combined.

 

Unquestionably true.

[Kal-El814]

Y'all have both been too curious about whether or not glue smells good.

 

Then again, I suppose the calculus could be that the DCU/MCU combined is a net negative based on Man of Steel alone, so... I need to think about this.

[Best]

I always enjoyed Man of Steel. 

 

[GeneticBlueprint]

I mean, I've always been pretty down on the MCU as a whole. I like a couple of those movies. But still... Nah. I actually fired up that first movie after watching the latest episode of the series because I needed more X-Men right then and there. That first X-Men movie was so well done for its time. It felt fresh, original, and serious with great cinematography and a cast that at its weakest links were still pretty good. It's a little campy nowdays, but the MCU is practically all camp at this point so nobody is even going to notice.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

X2 on its own puts the vast majority of the MCU/DCU in its shadow!

[Greatoneshere]

I'm pretty sure The Winter Soldier is a better movie than either of the first two X-Men movies guys, just as an example.  

[GeneticBlueprint]

31 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said:

I'm pretty sure The Winter Soldier is a better movie than either of the first two X-Men movies guys, just as an example.  

That’s actually the movie that made me realize that the MCU wasn’t for me. A bunch of washed out gray colors and overly forced connective tissue that made it feel just… not real? I don’t know how to describe it. But I’m pretty sure I said as much on my Letterboxd review ten years ago or whenever it came out. 

[Greatoneshere]

10 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

That’s actually the movie that made me realize that the MCU wasn’t for me. A bunch of washed out gray colors and overly forced connective tissue that made it feel just… not real? I don’t know how to describe it. But I’m pretty sure I said as much on my Letterboxd review ten years ago or whenever it came out. 

 

The colors of the movie reflect the spy nature of the film, I think. Beyond looks-wise, it's a really tight spy thriller whose action scenes are a lot of fun to watch and get the blood pumping. But if that one doesn't work, one could argue Iron Man 1, The Avengers or Avengers: Infinity War are also better than the first two X-Men movies. I'd also throw Civil War in there too. I don't think they are better but others would probably throw in Guardians of the Galaxy or Black Panther as better as well.

[GeneticBlueprint]

1 minute ago, Greatoneshere said:

 

The colors of the movie reflect the spy nature of the film, I think. Beyond looks-wise, it's a really tight spy thriller whose action scenes are a lot of fun to watch and get the blood pumping. But if that one doesn't work, one could argue Iron Man 1, The Avengers or Avengers: Infinity War are also better than the first two X-Men movies. I'd also throw Civil War in there too. I don't think they are better but others would probably throw in Guardians of the Galaxy or Black Panther as better as well.

No. It’s not that. It was shortly after they switched to digital and all the MCU movies around that timeframe all have this kind of washed out gray hue in them and everything on the screen just kind of blends together. The second Avengers movie was also a horrific offender in that regard especially considering all the literal colorful characters just not popping on the screen. They corrected not too long after that for sure. But there’s a run of five, six, seven MCU films that are just ugly as fuck. Winter Soldier is one of them. 

 

Iron Man 1 is a banger. So is the first Thor and first Captain America. I LOVE those movies. None as good as those first two X-Men though. Infinity War/End Game are good in the sense of their meta accomplishment, but are far too busy on their own to be “all timer” contenders for as so many talk them up to be. Civil War is fine. It’s not on the crap pile. That’s for sure. 

[Greatoneshere]

27 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

No. It’s not that. It was shortly after they switched to digital and all the MCU movies around that timeframe all have this kind of washed out gray hue in them and everything on the screen just kind of blends together. The second Avengers movie was also a horrific offender in that regard especially considering all the literal colorful characters just not popping on the screen. They corrected not too long after that for sure. But there’s a run of five, six, seven MCU films that are just ugly as fuck. Winter Soldier is one of them. 

 

Iron Man 1 is a banger. So is the first Thor and first Captain America. I LOVE those movies. None as good as those first two X-Men though. Infinity War/End Game are good in the sense of their meta accomplishment, but are far too busy on their own to be “all timer” contenders for as so many talk them up to be. Civil War is fine. It’s not on the crap pile. That’s for sure. 

 

I agree the colors don't pop, like the contrast is low but given how bright and colorful some of the movies are, I kind of appreciated that in Winter Soldier. Either way, as much as I love the first two X-Men movies, even if Infinity War requires "homework" it has better filmmaking, action, etc. As trailblazing and accomplished as the first two X-Men movies were, the aforementioned ones do that but even better, building on what they created. I'd argue the first two X-Men movies are incredibly influential, but best? But to each their own, I imagine younger viewers who did not grow up on those movies would not agree.

[Kal-El814]

The opening action scene in Winter Soldier is indeed too dark and desaturated but I don't think the rest of the movie suffers from that at all.

 

As far as MCU vs. X-Films, I dunno? They're difficult to compare for me since they're really trying different things. If we're using a 5 point scale where 3 and above is worth watching

 

1: Really Bad

2: Bad

3: Okay / Good with Caveats / Bad but Fun

4: Good

5: Really Good

 

For X-Men movies I'd go:

 

X-Men: 3

X2: 4

Last Stand: 1

X-Men Origins: Wolverine: 1

The Wolverine: 3

Logan: 5

First Class: 3 (or 4? I waffle on this one a lot and haven't seen it in a long time)

Days of Future Past: 4 (would be an easy 5 if the whole ending wasn't just a 10 minute exercise in constant fumbling)

X-Men: Apocalypse: 2

X-Men: Derp Phoenix: 1

Deadpool: 4

Deadpool 2: 3

The New Mutants: ? Haven't seen it, forgot it was a thing

 

For MCU Stuff:

 

Iron Man: 4

Hulk: 3

Iron Man 2: 3

Thor: 3

First Avenger: 3

Avengers: 4

Iron Man 3: 4 (controversial, I know, but I like Shane Black and The Mandarin bait and switch is still smart and ballsy to me, and Ben Kingsley is having too much fun)

Thor: The Derp World: 2

Winter Soldier: 4

Guardians 1: 4

Avengers Age of Ultron: 3 (the party scene would make it a 4 just because it's a comic fan debate come to life, the conversation between Bruce and Nat damn near makes it a 2, I hate it)

Ant-Man: 4 (this is a fun movie, I don't care what anyone says)

Civil War: 3? 2? (I waffle on this one a lot, it's got some fun moments but it feels the least organic of any MCU movie from inception through here, I feel like the main characters all compromise themselves but not in a way that's interesting or meaningfully acknowledged with consequences so it really just feels like an exercise in mashing action figures together)

Doctor Strange: 3

Guardians 2: 3 (when I'm feeling charitable Yondu's sendoff is emotional and lovely, most of the time the fact that it happens after acknowledging that he sent hundreds or thousands of children to their death with Ego seems like an absolutely unhinged thing for the movie to do)

Spidey Homecoming: 4

Thor Ragnarok: an easy 5, one of the most fun superhero movies ever made, EASILY more fun than any X-Men film and would be absolutely just straight up better than any of them if Logan wasn't a thing

Black Panther: 5

Infinity War: 4

Ant-Man and The Wasp: 3

Captain Marvel: 3

Endgame: 4

Spidey Far From Home: 4

Black Widow; 3? I don't know how I feel about this. In a vacuum I think it's perfectly fine but its "status" as an MCU movie is super weird. But Harbour and Pugh seem like they're having fun so whatever I guess

Shang Chi: 2 (If everything was as rad as the bus scene...)

Eternals: 3 (this movie is better directed, acted, and designed than it has any right to be considering its to-date impact on the canon)

Spidey No Way Home: 4 (sometimes this is a 5 for me, I love Maguire Spidey and even though I think the Garfield Spideys are... pretty bad, that character really works here. Civil War feels like mashing action figures together but sloppy, this feels like it's done right)

Multiverse of Madness: 3 (sometimes a 4 if I remember the music note / final fight, sometimes a 2 if I think about how they did Wanda and the whole ending... thing)

Love and Thunder: 2 (I really like it but I if someone asked if they should watch it... probably not?)

Wakanda Forever: 3

Quantumderpia: 2

Guardians 3: 3 (again I feel like the ending involving the stylish slaughter of creatures they spent the whole movie up until that time establishing as sympathetic was unhinged, Mantis being cruel to Drax and then fucking with his memory was wild, and the whole goodbye angle felt mostly justified by stuff happening IRL and not in the actual movie)

The Marvels: 3 (this is a fun movie, hate away)

 

That was fun to rip off!

 

Anyway I don't think I'm "right" or anything. I appreciate that the Feigeization of the MCU makes a lot of things feel samey which has never been an issue with the X-films, for better and occasionally worse. It'll be interesting to see what happens as the mutants make their way into the MCU.
 

[GeneticBlueprint]

I don’t even remember the opening sequence of Winter Soldier. What stands out in my mind is the sky-carrier sequence at the end. Everything the same color.

[GeneticBlueprint]

Bah here this guy says it better than I can and he appears to be a Marvel stan

 

 

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

9 minutes ago, GeneticBlueprint said:

Bah here this guy says it better than I can and he appears to be a Marvel stan

 

 

Patrick (who has one of the best damned channels on YouTube!) generally enjoys the Marvel films, but really isn't a "stan" per se.

[GeneticBlueprint]

1 hour ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said:

 

Patrick (who has one of the best damned channels on YouTube!) generally enjoys the Marvel films, but really isn't a "stan" per se.

Yeah too strong a word. I just meant he enjoys analyzing the business and production aspect of them as much as he appears to love watching them. 

[Greatoneshere]

2 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

As far as MCU vs. X-Films, I dunno? They're difficult to compare for me since they're really trying different things.

 

So where do you land ultimately on this question? Inquiring minds want to know. Solid ranking though you are way too kind to the MCU given how harsh you are on the DCEU. Different strokes I suppose. 

[cusideabelincoln]

First Class, Days of Future Past, Apocalypse, and Dark Phoenix are also very desaturated, probably even moreso than most MCU films AFAICR. The last two have to be the most forgettable comic films of all time with how ugly they look on top of having terrible stories.

[Kal-El814]

1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said:

So where do you land ultimately on this question? Inquiring minds want to know. Solid ranking though you are way too kind to the MCU given how harsh you are on the DCEU. Different strokes I suppose. 

 

I think overall there are more good MCU movies than X-Men movies, though that's perhaps damning them with faint praise given that there are so many more of them.

 

In terms of ranking, perhaps "bad to good" wasn't the right scale insomuch as it's "not worth watching to very worth watching." I'm not going to pretend that The Marvels is "good" but I think it's fun and worth the time. I know I shit on the DCEU but for me fun goes a long way when it comes to superhero movies broadly and those movies are not, in general, fun. I don't need a movie in general or a superhero movie specifically to be fun for me to like it; Logan is fantastic and while it has its moments I wouldn't say it's a fun movie. I've seen The Flash twice, god help me, and I think the extent to which that movie works at all is because it spends a decent amount of time enjoying itself. The worst DCEU movies don't do this and they also are burdened with being not particularly good.

 

Anyway I spent like 30 seconds thinking about each ranking so god only knows if I'll agree with myself tomorrow morning.

[GeneticBlueprint]

3 hours ago, Kal-El814 said:

The opening action scene in Winter Soldier is indeed too dark and desaturated but I don't think the rest of the movie suffers from that at all.

 

As far as MCU vs. X-Films, I dunno? They're difficult to compare for me since they're really trying different things. If we're using a 5 point scale where 3 and above is worth watching

 

1: Really Bad

2: Bad

3: Okay / Good with Caveats / Bad but Fun

4: Good

5: Really Good

 

For X-Men movies I'd go:

 

X-Men: 3

X2: 4

Last Stand: 1

X-Men Origins: Wolverine: 1

The Wolverine: 3

Logan: 5

First Class: 3 (or 4? I waffle on this one a lot and haven't seen it in a long time)

Days of Future Past: 4 (would be an easy 5 if the whole ending wasn't just a 10 minute exercise in constant fumbling)

X-Men: Apocalypse: 2

X-Men: Derp Phoenix: 1

Deadpool: 4

Deadpool 2: 3

The New Mutants: ? Haven't seen it, forgot it was a thing

 

For MCU Stuff:

 

Iron Man: 4

Hulk: 3

Iron Man 2: 3

Thor: 3

First Avenger: 3

Avengers: 4

Iron Man 3: 4 (controversial, I know, but I like Shane Black and The Mandarin bait and switch is still smart and ballsy to me, and Ben Kingsley is having too much fun)

Thor: The Derp World: 2

Winter Soldier: 4

Guardians 1: 4

Avengers Age of Ultron: 3 (the party scene would make it a 4 just because it's a comic fan debate come to life, the conversation between Bruce and Nat damn near makes it a 2, I hate it)

Ant-Man: 4 (this is a fun movie, I don't care what anyone says)

Civil War: 3? 2? (I waffle on this one a lot, it's got some fun moments but it feels the least organic of any MCU movie from inception through here, I feel like the main characters all compromise themselves but not in a way that's interesting or meaningfully acknowledged with consequences so it really just feels like an exercise in mashing action figures together)

Doctor Strange: 3

Guardians 2: 3 (when I'm feeling charitable Yondu's sendoff is emotional and lovely, most of the time the fact that it happens after acknowledging that he sent hundreds or thousands of children to their death with Ego seems like an absolutely unhinged thing for the movie to do)

Spidey Homecoming: 4

Thor Ragnarok: an easy 5, one of the most fun superhero movies ever made, EASILY more fun than any X-Men film and would be absolutely just straight up better than any of them if Logan wasn't a thing

Black Panther: 5

Infinity War: 4

Ant-Man and The Wasp: 3

Captain Marvel: 3

Endgame: 4

Spidey Far From Home: 4

Black Widow; 3? I don't know how I feel about this. In a vacuum I think it's perfectly fine but its "status" as an MCU movie is super weird. But Harbour and Pugh seem like they're having fun so whatever I guess

Shang Chi: 2 (If everything was as rad as the bus scene...)

Eternals: 3 (this movie is better directed, acted, and designed than it has any right to be considering its to-date impact on the canon)

Spidey No Way Home: 4 (sometimes this is a 5 for me, I love Maguire Spidey and even though I think the Garfield Spideys are... pretty bad, that character really works here. Civil War feels like mashing action figures together but sloppy, this feels like it's done right)

Multiverse of Madness: 3 (sometimes a 4 if I remember the music note / final fight, sometimes a 2 if I think about how they did Wanda and the whole ending... thing)

Love and Thunder: 2 (I really like it but I if someone asked if they should watch it... probably not?)

Wakanda Forever: 3

Quantumderpia: 2

Guardians 3: 3 (again I feel like the ending involving the stylish slaughter of creatures they spent the whole movie up until that time establishing as sympathetic was unhinged, Mantis being cruel to Drax and then fucking with his memory was wild, and the whole goodbye angle felt mostly justified by stuff happening IRL and not in the actual movie)

The Marvels: 3 (this is a fun movie, hate away)

 

That was fun to rip off!

 

Anyway I don't think I'm "right" or anything. I appreciate that the Feigeization of the MCU makes a lot of things feel samey which has never been an issue with the X-films, for better and occasionally worse. It'll be interesting to see what happens as the mutants make their way into the MCU.
 

 

I have rank envy so now I need to give my grades. I’ll stick to whole numbers 1-5 like Kal. Also keeping in mind I’ve only seen most of these movies once whenever they came out

 

1 - Nothing redeeming here

2 - Mostly schlock that can’t distinguish itself in my mind from what came before or after it, but has one or two redeeming factors

3 - Yeah it’s alright. Possibly good. Probably not going to spend time to watch it again, though

4 - Highly distinguishes itself against its series/Cinematic Universe

5 - Highly distinguishes itself amongst its genre

 

Mutant movies

X-Men: 4

X-2: 5

X-3: 2

Wolverine Origins: 2 Liev Schreiber elevates anything he’s in or it’d be a 1

The Wolverine: 3

First Class: 4

Days of Future Past: 4, sometimes a 5 when I think about how well it blended the two series, but the ending sequence is ripped straight out of MCU schlock which brings it back down squarely into 4 territory

Apocalypse: 3, yeah I know it’s really a 2 at best but the amount that this movie gets shit on makes you think it’d be a 1. But it’s not that bad. 

Dark Phoenix: 1, can’t shit on this one hard enough though

Logan: 5

Deadpool: 4

Deadpool 2: 3, I want to give it a 4 because the cast is so fun in this one, but realistically I know it’s just rehashing what came before it. 

 

MCU

Iron Man: Waivers between 3 and 4 for me. Rewatched it a couple years ago with my son and it seemed more in 3 territory that time. 

Hulk: I actually haven’t see it

Iron Man 2: 1 (should be a 0 for playing into Pedo Guy as some sort of real life Tony Stark, was cringe even back then)

Thor: 4 - I love the beauty and color of this one, and their concept of Valhalla and all the Nordic iconography. Intro to Loki/Tom Hiddleston whose portrayal took on a life of its own

Captain America: 5 - another colorful beauty with genuine heartfelt character beats, and I love Steam Punk Nazi shit—not FOR the Nazi stuff but just it’s always a cool villain concept for me—and this has that in spades.

Avengers: 3

Iron Man 3: 2

Thor 2: 1

Winter Soldier: 2

Guardians: 3

Avengers Ultron: 2

Ant-Man: 2

Civil War: 3 I mean that ending fight is pretty cool without a doubt, but I mostly mirror what Kal said in terms of authentic character beats and motivations (or lack thereof)

Doc Strange: 2

Guardians 2: 3

Spider-Man Homecoming: 3

Thor 3: 2

Black Panther: 3 Michael B Jordan brings it up a point, but that showdown at the end is unforgivably bad

Infinity War: 2 in this day and age it’s impossible not to kind of follow the meta around any movie, and when all the characters that die in your movie have sequels announced already it kind of cheapens the moment

Ant Man and the Wasp: 2

Captain Marvel: 2

Endgame: 4 retroactively makes Infinity War a 3 but I’m only grading these individually

SpiderMan Far From Home: 2

Black Widow: Haven’t seen

Shang Chi: haven’t seen

Spiderman No Way Home: 5

I haven’t seen anything after this one. I wanted it to end on a high note 

 

[Keyser_Soze]

Now rank Hellboy and Kick-Ass

[Spork3245]

This thread is very sad now

 

[MarSolo]

The funniest thing both The Last Stand and Dark Phoenix do is completely ignore that their previous films (X2 and Apocalypse) show flames coming out of Jean when she uses her Phoenix abilities.