Keyser_Soze Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 2 hours ago, Kal-El814 said: Or the publisher is being dishonest about what they offered. That would never happen. Now give them $70 dollars for a game plz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 10 hours ago, Kal-El814 said: I think a publisher BSing an offer and presenting it to gaming journalists is at least as likely as a voice actor getting offered short shrift for their work, given that the Bloomberg article suggests that $4K would be in line with other offers for gigs on bigger titles. I find it much more likely that she publicly misconstrued the 1 session $4k 'cameo' as voicing the whole game, once previous negotiations soured. Platinum wouldn't only need to be lying about their offer(s), but what they say she demanded. 10 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: I would like to think that someone like Schreier would have some kind of "bullshit detector" go off if he was handed some all-too-convenient documentation. Thus, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt here. Schreier uses the word of disgruntled employees to fit his narrative shtick: That company X is a terrible place to work that treats their employees like meat on a production line, also, here's their troubled project I'm sure they're thrilled about me getting a scoop on. Press sneak fuck out. The fact that he's the one reporting that her integrity is in question is... quite the turn of events. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IdeaOfEvil Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 Is all this union and hourly wage talk kinda backhand confirming B3 is gonna bait and switch the main hero like Metal Gear Solid 2 did? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyHell Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 6 hours ago, crispy4000 said: I find it much more likely that she publicly misconstrued the 1 session $4k 'cameo' as voicing the whole game, once previous negotiations soured. Platinum wouldn't only need to be lying about their offer(s), but what they say she demanded. Schreier uses the word of disgruntled employees to fit his narrative shtick: That company X is a terrible place to work that treats their employees like meat on a production line, also, here's their troubled project I'm sure they're thrilled about me getting a scoop on. Press sneak fuck out. The fact that he's the one reporting that her integrity is in question is... quite the turn of events. Show me a story Schreier has written that was based on lies? Ever think those employees are disgruntled for a reason? I don't like the guy, but he's one of the few journalists in games who does actual journalism. He and Colin Moriarty are about the last two whose word I actually trust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperclyp Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 Oh lord Colin Moriarty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 55 minutes ago, BloodyHell said: Show me a story Schreier has written that was based on lies? Ever think those employees are disgruntled for a reason? I don't like the guy, but he's one of the few journalists in games who does actual journalism. He and Colin Moriarty are about the last two whose word I actually trust. I need everyone to appreciate that the biggest reason people don't like Schreier while still trusting his reporting is because he blocks everyone on Twitter he doesn't care to interact with...in a thread about Kamiya's latest game. The director that is 1000x more extreme and actually got his account suspended because Twitter thought he was hacked after blocking so many people this past week. For what it's worth, I'd similarly block everyone if I was a public figure. Twitter isn't a good place to have discussions and I'd have no interest in getting dragged into an annoying one if I had hundreds of thousands of eyes on me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 I think this kind of thing just goes to show you how non-regulated game development is and no wonder big CEOs rake in the money because there are no rules. Basically everyone is a temp employee, there are no payment standards, no unions, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyHell Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 41 minutes ago, Paperclyp said: Oh lord Colin Moriarty Yes, best gaming podcasts out there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 1 hour ago, BloodyHell said: Show me a story Schreier has written that was based on lies? Ever think those employees are disgruntled for a reason? I don't like the guy, but he's one of the few journalists in games who does actual journalism. He and Colin Moriarty are about the last two whose word I actually trust. I have knowledge about a studio Schreier did a piece on that misrepresented several critical facts. Said disgruntled employee wasn't high up enough to know the actual reasons, filled in the blanks with their own presumptions, and Schreier ran with it. Maybe that's not Schreier's fault. But when his articles contain details about a game the studio isn't ready to show, it puts them in a difficult place concerning a response to the allegations. There were no trade secrets in this Bayonetta 3 story beyond the negotiations in question, which is why I think Platinum got a chance to give their side of the story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyHell Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 32 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said: I need everyone to appreciate that the biggest reason people don't like Schreier while still trusting his reporting is because he blocks everyone on Twitter he doesn't care to interact with...in a thread about Kamiya's latest game. The director that is 1000x more extreme and actually got his account suspended because Twitter thought he was hacked after blocking so many people this past week. For what it's worth, I'd similarly block everyone if I was a public figure. Twitter isn't a good place to have discussions and I'd have no interest in getting dragged into an annoying one if I had hundreds of thousands of eyes on me. Oh sure, I think personally he's an idiot. But professionally, so far, his reporting has always been factual and fairly specific. As far as leaks, the company isn't his problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 14 minutes ago, Keyser_Soze said: I think this kind of thing just goes to show you how non-regulated game development is and no wonder big CEOs rake in the money because there are no rules. Basically everyone is a temp employee, there are no payment standards, no unions, etc. Reporting says the English dub here was a union gig. How much power the union has in an industry as abusive as videogames is a different story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 11 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: I have knowledge about a studio Schreier did a piece on that misrepresented several critical facts. Said disgruntled employee wasn't high up enough to know the actual reasons, filled in the blanks with their own presumptions, and Schreier ran with it. Maybe that's not Schreier's fault. But when his articles contain details about games the studio isn't ready to show, it puts them in a difficult place concerning a response to the allegations. On some level, I think he knows this. There was no trade secrets in this Bayonetta 3 story beyond the negotiations in question, which is why I think Platinum got a chance to give their side of the story. So this touches on something I've dealt with a lot on my career. One of the worst places I've ever worked at very often made and still does make, the Boston Best Places to Work list. I loved the company, I really liked the executive team, but there was this awfully toxic middle management layer. Some of them were great. Some of them, like mine, were petty and racist and did everything they could to make my life miserable there. It's really easy for whole groups of people to view the situation at a company positively, even when dealing with the same people, while there's another that is having a terrible time while putting on a happy face. The number of people at the company I alluded to before that knew how unhappy I was and how shitty I was being treated I could count on a single hand that was missing fingers. This is in spite of there being dozens of people from there that, years later, I'd still consider friends. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 16 minutes ago, Ghost_MH said: So this touches on something I've dealt with a lot on my career. One of the worst places I've ever worked at very often made and still does make, the Boston Best Places to Work list. I loved the company, I really liked the executive team, but there was this awfully toxic middle management layer. Some of them were great. Some of them, like mine, were petty and racist and did everything they could to make my life miserable there. It's really easy for whole groups of people to view the situation at a company positively, even when dealing with the same people, while there's another that is having a terrible time while putting on a happy face. The number of people at the company I alluded to before that knew how unhappy I was and how shitty I was being treated I could count on a single hand that was missing fingers. This is in spite of there being dozens of people from there that, years later, I'd still consider friends. Agreed. It all goes to say that there's nuances that happen at every part of the corporate ladder. Like, I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of people working at Blizzard never saw anything remotely sexist at the company. Doesn't mean it didn't exist. Crunch can be similar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 7 hours ago, IdeaOfEvil said: Is all this union and hourly wage talk kinda backhand confirming B3 is gonna bait and switch the main hero like Metal Gear Solid 2 did? It may not be identical to the MGS2 situation, but the second protagonist Viola seems like she will have significant gameplay time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 2 hours ago, crispy4000 said: There were no trade secrets in this Bayonetta 3 story beyond the negotiations in question, which is why I think Platinum got a chance to give their side of the story. Yeah, I was wrong there. Not entirely surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperclyp Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 7 hours ago, BloodyHell said: Yes, best gaming podcasts out there. To each his own Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted October 19, 2022 Share Posted October 19, 2022 I stand with @Kal-El814 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brick Posted October 20, 2022 Share Posted October 20, 2022 The solution is to just have Chris Pratt voice Bayonetta next time. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 21, 2022 Author Share Posted October 21, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Well, she just confirmed PG's side, but denied the asking for 6 figures part. Her thread: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Perhaps the final offer reflects that VO artists aren't paid enough, but she omitted some key details that Jason sleuthed out of her. No way she comes out of this looking good. This also looks really bad in retrospect: Quote In private messages exchanged with VGC, Taylor called the suggestion that she was offered more than $4,000 “categorically untrue”. She also labelled claims by sources that she could’ve earned $15,000 “an absolute lie, and a complete joke”. https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/sources-dispute-bayonetta-voice-actors-claims-over-pay-offer/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 32 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: Perhaps the final offer reflects that VO artists aren't paid enough, but she omitted some key details that Jason sleuthed out of her. No way she comes out of this looking good. This also looks really bad in retrospect: https://www.videogameschronicle.com/news/sources-dispute-bayonetta-voice-actors-claims-over-pay-offer/ With the new information that’s come out, Taylor’s initial story doesn’t hold up. But I’m always going to initially side with workers in these situations until evidence to the contrary becomes overwhelming. Especially since it seems like the initial amount she claimed she was offered was not out of the realm of possibility for meaningful VA work in the industry. Or, said better… this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 29 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said: Or, said better… this thread. I like how there is a both side things going on in there but, lol, ever taking the side of a corporation even if they aren't wrong. Fuck'em. Ridiculous how people are defending a corporation. Sure, dislike Taylor for being disingenuous that's where that should end. And fuck whoever Ahmed Salama is too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 For me, it depends on more what the allegation is and who (and what) is backing it up. Like, I'll almost always believe a story about crunch, because this industry is so bad about it and it's not too hard to corroborate. Same with a sexist/racist studio culture, which can leave quite the paper trail in the digital age (ie: Blizzard, Moon Studios, etc). This should have been a slam dunk for her, if she could provide the receipts. Her initial claim about only being offered 4k was highly suspect from the start however. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 12 minutes ago, crispy4000 said: Her initial claim about only being offered 4k was highly suspect from the start however. I don’t agree with this; there is evidence of other VA’s being paid $4K or less on games with bigger budgets and significantly higher sales than the Bayonetta franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xbob42 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Also $15k is just as bad as $4k for a half-billion dollar franchise's main star, lol. It could be $50k and it wouldn't even be enough. Pay the fuckin' woman residuals like a real industry. Quit being shittier than every other industry! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crispy4000 Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 2 hours ago, Bacon said: I like how there is a both side things going on in there but, lol, ever taking the side of a corporation even if they aren't wrong. Fuck'em. Ridiculous how people are defending a corporation. Sure, dislike Taylor for being disingenuous that's where that should end. People's jobs don't deserve to be put in jeopardy due to a someone breaking a NDA only to spread falsehoods. It's not as simple as saying fuck the developer or publisher regardless. She cried wolf, which is really shitty for the reputation of future, legitimate whistleblowers. Setting that precedent is the worst part of this as it stands IMO. 2 hours ago, Kal-El814 said: I don’t agree with this; there is evidence of other VA’s being paid $4K or less on games with bigger budgets and significantly higher sales than the Bayonetta franchise. ... with fewer hours in the studio. VO industry is unionized, and has been on strike before. The biggest injustice today seems to be that royalties aren't standard. They'd be doing much better if they were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 All she had to do was tell the actual truth and it would have still been a story without it biting her in the ass. Deciding to lie and then kinda double down on that lying was really really stupid. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Yeah I will never understand the need of people to lie and exaggerate when the truth is sufficient to make your point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 It’s like that post in current events with a Kanye impersonator leaving a threatening voicemail, you don’t need to lie to make Kanye West look crazy, what are we doing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyHell Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 10/24/2022 at 12:10 PM, Bacon said: I like how there is a both side things going on in there but, lol, ever taking the side of a corporation even if they aren't wrong. Fuck'em. Ridiculous how people are defending a corporation. Sure, dislike Taylor for being disingenuous that's where that should end. And fuck whoever Ahmed Salama is too. The problem isn't that she attacked Platinum, she should have left Hale out of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyHell Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 3 hours ago, Brian said: Hot damn! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Bayonetta 3 broke my heart WWW.POLYGON.COM PlatinumGames nails the combat and fails its heroine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperclyp Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 On 10/24/2022 at 10:56 AM, legend said: Yeah I will never understand the need of people to lie and exaggerate when the truth is sufficient to make your point. this is the reason it is so frustrating that she did this. She undermined anyone in the future who wants to honestly speak out about unfair compensation in the industry, and she didn’t have to. On 10/24/2022 at 9:41 AM, Kal-El814 said: With the new information that’s come out, Taylor’s initial story doesn’t hold up. But I’m always going to initially side with workers in these situations until evidence to the contrary becomes overwhelming. Especially since it seems like the initial amount she claimed she was offered was not out of the realm of possibility for meaningful VA work in the industry. Or, said better… this thread. i agree that I’ll almost always give the worker the benefit of the doubt, but in some cases, like this one, I do think it’s appropriate to not take a super strong stance initially as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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