Zaku3 Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 27 minutes ago, ManUtdRedDevils said: Everyone is aiming for the middle model? Middle model is the sweet spot if you ask me. I am going for 3 because I may just switch it to Windows. I assume @Mr.Vic20 is gunning for 3 as well. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 3 for me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Just now, sblfilms said: 3 for me But which version are you going to pick up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Just now, Keyser_Soze said: But which version are you going to pick up? One of each, for completion sake Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 I’m assuming you can dual boot as well, i’ll probably do that. If a game supports steamos I rather just oh you probably can’t use the same install damnit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amazatron Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 My steam library on the toilet. This is it everyone, we’ve reached utopia. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, Amazatron said: My steam library on the toilet. This is it everyone, we’ve reached utopia. You could play Toilet Simulator while on the toilet! Toilet Simulator 2020 on Steam STORE.STEAMPOWERED.COM Immersive and associative first person experience... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Quote But really, the most interesting elements of Steam Deck are the semi-custom AMD processor and the background operating system - and we'll start with the first. Valve, via IGN, describes the chip as being next-gen in nature using the latest architectures - which is true, but only if we consider the consoles as the defining factor of what a generation actually is. You can effectively consider Steam Deck's chip as being most similar in nature to Xbox Series S, with significant reductions in all dimensions. The eight-core, 16-thread AMD Zen 2 chip is cut down by half, while the fixed 3.6GHz clock adjusts to a variable 2.4GHz to 3.5GHz. Series S's 20 RDNA 2 compute units drop down to just eight and again, a fixed clock on the Microsoft machine (1565MHz) shifts to a variable 1.0GHz to 1.6GHz on Steam Deck, meaning a range of 1TF to 1.6TF of GPU compute against the locked 4TF on Series S. Bearing in mind that we've measured Series S as drawing up to 82.5W of power, we need to keep expectations in check about the performance of Steam Deck. Another key decision Valve has made about the specification of the unit concerns memory - 16GB of LPDDR5 rated at 5000 MT/s. Traditionally, graphics performance with AMD's APUs in the desktop space have been severely limited by memory bandwidth as opposed to compute. Games tend to gain more performance from plugging in faster RAM as opposed to overclocking the GPU itself. What Valve has come up with is a good solution for Steam Deck both in terms of available bandwidth (assuming Valve embraces something like a 128-bit interface to get the most out of it) and in the sheer amount of RAM available - anything less would have had severe consequences on the longevity of the system. There are three Steam Decks available at $399/£349, $529/£459 and $649/£559. All that separates them at the internal hardware level is the amount of storage, while at the top level, anti-glare glass is added to the seven-inch LCD display (which peaks at 400 nits brightness). The base unit comes with a mere 64GB of eMMC NAND flash, while the higher level options ship with 256GB and 512GB NVMe drives respectively. According to Valve, the more space you opt for, the faster the read/write capabilities of the respective storage solutions. On top of this, a MicroSD slot is available to add additional space - but in loading time terms, performance here will very much come down to the quality of the card you insert. Personally, I'd strongly recommend either of the NVMe options over a NAND-based unit. The hardware looks best-in-class for a handheld - and if Valve's intent is to deliver some level of competition to Nintendo Switch with its pricing, the value proposition is off the charts, relatively speaking. However, it is the software that has it all to prove. Steam Deck is effectively a PC as open as any other: there is nothing stopping you from installing Microsoft Windows or any other OS. However, that's not what the Deck ships with - what you're getting is an evolution of SteamOS, meaning that Linux is the primary operating system. This presents something of a problem in that actual native support for Linux is thin on the ground, while support for the preferable Vulkan graphics API is stronger but still far from taking root as the industry standard. Valve's solution is a beefed-up version of Proton - a collection of technologies including WINE and DXVK that re-interpret Windows code to run on Linux. The ProtonDB database gives you some outlook on how good the technology is, but it's clear that 100 percent compatibility is not a given and you should expect a hit to performance compared to running natively on Windows. With that said, Steam is talking about a 'vastly improving Proton's game compatibility and support for anti-cheat solutions by working directly with the vendors.' This is still the area where I'm cautious about Steam Deck's chances of fully delivering on the potential - the compatibility layer will need to be phenomenally good to get best performance from what is an excellent processor judged by mobile standards, but a rather weak one relative to a mainstream gaming PC. Questions also need to be asked about overall game performance - and we need to see much more from the system before we can offer any kind of definitive verdict. On the one hand, we've seen the device running challenging triple-A fare - running the full-fat PC rendition of Star Wars Jedi: Fallen Order on a mobile processor is no mean feat. Even more impressive than that is the split-second view we had of Remedy's Control running on the system. So, by extension, we can assume a very healthy level of performance for Steam Deck on the vast majority of PC titles in the Steam library, and let's not forget that we're talking about a catalogue of games here stretching back decades. However, on the flipside, we have to think about the gaming generation to come. Let's not forget that Xbox Series S is considerably more power hungry and in its pursuit of 60fps for much of its library, dynamic resolution ranges are already hitting 720p minimums or even lower - and that's using a very low-level version of DirectX 12 built specifically for the silicon. Comparisons with Nintendo Switch also need to be treated with some degree of caution. On the one hand, there is no doubt that at the core specs level, Steam Deck is literally generations ahead in every dimension. But at the same time, comparisons between Switch and Nvidia Shield Android TV - built from the same silicon - show just how much extra performance is gained by having that direct low-level API access. All of which leads us on to what I think is the key factor that could make or break Steam Deck - developer buy-in. Nintendo and Nvidia gave developers the tools and API to make Switch everything it could be, but fundamentally it's the game makers that tailored their code to the Tegra X1 processor. The list of so-called impossible ports for the Nintendo hybrid is immense, but the reason why they exist is because the time and effort was put in for this individual platform. So for Steam Deck, that's going to start with bespoke settings profiles that deliver a good experience for the hardware right from boot, with no further tuning from the user required - though of course, settings menus should remain. But going forward, ensuring scalability is key to Steam Deck's future fortunes. Many existing techniques, such as temporal super-sampling and dynamic resolution scaling were existing technologies brought across from other console versions that proved crucial for Switch ports and I strongly suspect that Steam Deck is going to need them too to really be the best it can be. And if this leads to a stronger basis for scalability for PC ports in general, that can only be a good thing. Generally speaking, if the aim is to bring PC gaming more into the mainstream, the process of getting good out-of-the-box performance needs to be just as seamless as it is on consoles and to keep Steam Deck viable, more lower end options are going to be required for the latest games. In there here and now though, from my perspective, there are three key areas where Steam Deck has to prove itself. First of all, it's about the unit's functionality as a handheld. This thing is truly large: the ergonomics need to work, the screen needs to deliver and the battery life has to be decent. Secondly, compatibility is key: if Valve is talking about accessing your Steam library, that needs to just work - and that's where the apparently vast improvement in the Proton compatibility layer really needs to deliver. And finally, it's all about performance. The fundamentals are there to ensure that games run - but how well are they going to run? We are in a time of cross-gen transition in the industry: if the titles of today run fine, what about the games of tomorrow? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Preorders in a little over 3 hours! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLeon Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 This seems like a cool piece of tech, but I’m just not interested in handhelds any more. If I traveled as part of my job or something, this would be nice to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 $5 deposit is fully refundable -- I may throw a fiver down on one with the amount of travel I do. It should be robust enough for me to play through my backlog. The 256 or the 512 though.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
legend Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 5 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: $5 deposit is fully refundable -- I may throw a fiver down on one with the amount of travel I do. It should be robust enough for me to play through my backlog. The 256 or the 512 though.... This is exactly where my head is. I'm interested enough to put down the reservation, but I can't decide which I may go for the 256, and then use micro-sd as additional storage so I can move games on and off it, allowing me to avoid the full re-download of a game I might want to play, but am otherwise not frequently playing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, legend said: This is exactly where my head is. I'm interested enough to put down the reservation, but I can't decide which I may go for the 256, and then use micro-sd as additional storage so I can move games on and off it, allowing me to avoid the full re-download of a game I might want to play, but am otherwise not frequently playing. Many plan with the 256 as well, I also can’t imagine you can’t upgrade the nvme models to a larger size later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, stepee said: Many plan with the 256 as well, I also can’t imagine you can’t upgrade the nvme models to a larger size later. A lot of small form factor has the parts soldered on which is why the SD card is included in the design imo. I think I will got for the $629 model. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 10 minutes ago, legend said: This is exactly where my head is. I'm interested enough to put down the reservation, but I can't decide which I may go for the 256, and then use micro-sd as additional storage so I can move games on and off it, allowing me to avoid the full re-download of a game I might want to play, but am otherwise not frequently playing. I think I will end up with the 512 -- simply because I assume dual-booting it will chew up more space. 8 minutes ago, stepee said: Many plan with the 256 as well, I also can’t imagine you can’t upgrade the nvme models to a larger size later. Reporting has been that you can't upgrade it. It may be on the MB like the current gen consoles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 21 hours ago, Firewithin said: We can call it the Upper Decker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 9 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: I think I will end up with the 512 -- simply because I assume dual-booting it will chew up more space. Reporting has been that you can't upgrade it. It may be on the MB like the current gen consoles. ok Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cusideabelincoln Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Does it have the dual-stage analog triggers like the Steam controller? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, cusideabelincoln said: Does it have the dual-stage analog triggers like the Steam controller? They call them "analog triggers", with no mention of them being dual-stage (or not). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cusideabelincoln Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 8 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: They call them "analog triggers", with no mention of them being dual-stage (or not). Probably not since they added the second set of grip buttons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cusideabelincoln Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 I wonder if they'll release a Steam controller v2.0 for people who want to dock this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chakoo Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 a bit of a tangent but man this unit is continuing to confirm to me that sony is messing up by not making a PS4 Portable that just plays your digital ps4 library. This device proves they could make scale one down and the size of the library it would have to offer would be immense and add a few more years of life to the ps4 for smaller scale japanese devs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 24 minutes ago, chakoo said: a bit of a tangent but man this unit is continuing to confirm to me that sony is messing up by not making a PS4 Portable that just plays your digital ps4 library. This device proves they could make scale one down and the size of the library it would have to offer would be immense and add a few more years of life to the ps4 for smaller scale japanese devs. Well since they are bringing PS4 games to PC this is the next best thing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imthesoldier Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 15 hours ago, Fizzzzle said: I can't remember where I saw it, but it does weigh slightly more than 2 switches. So there is that. Well, it's at least two Nintendo Switch systems duct-taped together in terms of performance, so by my rough napkin math, this makes sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 16 minutes ago, imthesoldier said: Well, it's at least two Nintendo Switch systems duct-taped together in terms of performance, so by my rough napkin math, this makes sense. I believe the Switch has a peak GPU output of 236 GFlops in handheld mode. So the Steam Deck's quoted GPU output is in the range of 6x faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imthesoldier Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: I believe the Switch has a peak GPU output of 236 GFlops in handheld mode. So the Steam Deck's quoted GPU output is in the range of 6x faster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 minute ago, imthesoldier said: 6>>>2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Don’t forget to load this motha fucka up with emulators, it’s going to be an amazing emulator device. PS2 easily, wiiu should be fine, will be curious about switch emulation tho idk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imthesoldier Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 4 minutes ago, AbsolutSurgen said: 6>>>2 I was referring to the old meme of the Nintendo Wii being 2-3 GCN's duct-taped together. But seriously, you can't directly compare FLOPS on the Switch to the FLOPS on the Deck because they're different architectures (and different generations of hardware), and one is older than the other. Same reason why I think people are underselling the power of the Deck by saying it's the power of a Base PS4 simply because that is 1.8TFLOPS vs. 2TFLOPS for the Steam Deck. 1.8TFLOPS in 2013 is a lot different than 2TFLOPS in 2021. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaku3 Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 19 min my body is ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 1 minute ago, imthesoldier said: I was referring to the old meme of the Nintendo Wii being 2-3 GCN's duct-taped together. But seriously, you can't directly compare FLOPS on the Switch to the FLOPS on the Deck because they're different architectures (and different generations of hardware), and one is older than the other. Same reason why I think people are underselling the power of the Deck by saying it's the power of a Base PS4 simply because that is 1.8TFLOPS vs. 2TFLOPS for the Steam Deck. 1.8TFLOPS in 2013 is a lot different than 2TFLOPS in 2021. According to Valve, the GPU on this is 1.6 TFlops -- not 2 (adding the CPU and GPU Flops together doesn't make much sense). So assuming the RDNA2 architecture efficiency improvements are 15-30% gets you pretty close to a PS4 -- maybe slightly faster (but not enough to notice). The quoted specs on this thing make it a true (not a Nintendo) generational leap over Switch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Go go go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AbsolutSurgen Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Steam keeps crapping out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted July 16, 2021 Share Posted July 16, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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