osxmatt Posted September 1, 2021 Share Posted September 1, 2021 4 hours ago, Jason said: He vowed it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firewithin Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 As we expected 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 5 hours ago, osxmatt said: He vowed it! it’s been vowed! case closed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyser_Soze Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 10 hours ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Joe, they're not going to "de jure" overturn Roe v. Wade. They're just gonna "de facto" overturn it by not striking down these state laws when they come before the court. Get your Crusader Kings lingo out of this thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted September 2, 2021 Author Share Posted September 2, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted September 2, 2021 Author Share Posted September 2, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted September 2, 2021 Author Share Posted September 2, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 Democrats should use the same mechanism on gun manufacturers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 Is there is a reason the State of Texas couldn’t be sued for drafting/passing/signing a clearly unconstitutional law? I understand the loophole, but I don’t understand why that wouldn’t just lead to the party responsible for the loophole being held liable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted September 2, 2021 Author Share Posted September 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Because I'm sure this SCOTUS will be extremely consistent in how it handles these sorts of cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 9 minutes ago, Jason said: Because I'm sure this SCOTUS will be extremely consistent in how it handles these sorts of cases. It's an exercise in power and more people need to realize it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 58 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said: Democrats should use the same mechanism on gun manufacturers. Yes. And I think SCOTUS should ultimately re-codify both the right to bear arms and abortion. This shit is ridiculous and helps no one in any intrinsic way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 9 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: Yes. And I think SCOTUS should ultimately re-codify both the right to bear arms and abortion. This shit is ridiculous and helps no one in any intrinsic way. Whenever people argue that SCOTUS shouldn't be in charge of these types of laws (and that Congress should), I always have to ask: and how do you expect Congress to pass a law relating to gun rights, abortion, etc? Clearly it can't. So if Congress has to, but it can't, then what is the solution? There is this fetishization of American government (in the abstract) like the setup is the most perfect in human history and if only we'd follow the rules as they were set up then government would run well. But clearly experience has shown that the American governmental system/structure is one of the worst in modern history, and cannot function in the modern world. Even a basic Parliamentary system (where the winner of a single house controls the government for 2-4 years solid and has near-dictatorial power, like in Canada or the UK) is far superior in that it can both get things done, but is also responsive to the electorate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: Whenever people argue that SCOTUS shouldn't be in charge of these types of laws (and that Congress should), I always have to ask: and how do you expect Congress to pass a law relating to gun rights, abortion, etc? Clearly it can't. So if Congress has to, but it can't, then what is the solution? There is this fetishization of American government (in the abstract) like the setup is the most perfect in human history and if only we'd follow the rules as they were set up then government would run well. But clearly experience has shown that the American governmental system/structure is one of the worst in modern history, and cannot function in the modern world. Even a basic Parliamentary system (where the winner of a single house controls the government for 2-4 years solid and has near-dictatorial power, like in Canada or the UK) is far superior in that it can both get things done, but is also responsive to the electorate. Nuking the filibuster would greatly improve the situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 40 minutes ago, Chris- said: Is there is a reason the State of Texas couldn’t be sued for drafting/passing/signing a clearly unconstitutional law? I understand the loophole, but I don’t understand why that wouldn’t just lead to the party responsible for the loophole being held liable. I think it's because courts can't overturn laws, only the enforcement. Without a State Official enforcing the law, it has to wait until someone sues a provider, then it'll work its way through the courts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said: I think it's because courts can't overturn laws, only the enforcement. Without a State Official enforcing the law, it has to wait until someone sues a provider, then it'll work its way through the courts. This is correct. The lawsuit has to be from someone who has been "injured" by the law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: This is correct. The lawsuit has to be from someone who has been "injured" by the law. Part of me wonders if one of these lawsuits will never go forward since providers first have to do an abortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said: Part of me wonders if one of these lawsuits will never go forward since providers first have to do an abortion. Well that's the goal—to freeze abortions due to fear of lawsuit, even if the abortion might be legal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chakoo Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 41 minutes ago, Jwheel86 said: Nuking the filibuster would greatly improve the situation. Yes or at least force people to actually stand up there and talk non stop to actually filibuster. Even if it just gives the crazy a platform to talk for hours it keeps them tied up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 And if "bad" laws get passed without the filibuster, so freakin' what? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzzzle Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 8 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: And if "bad" laws get passed without the filibuster, so freakin' what? "but if we nuke the filibuster, then THEY will be able to pass whatever they want when THEY take power again!" Good! Let them! Or maybe if you, y'know, did your fucking jobs and actually passed legislation that people like then you wouldn't have to worry about it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted September 2, 2021 Author Share Posted September 2, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firewithin Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 Did @Commissar SFLUFANstart this? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 11 minutes ago, Firewithin said: Did @Commissar SFLUFANstart this? Someone's already made a script to help folks send in realistic, fake bounty requests. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 33 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said: "but if we nuke the filibuster, then THEY will be able to pass whatever they want when THEY take power again!" Good! Let them! Or maybe if you, y'know, did your fucking jobs and actually passed legislation that people like then you wouldn't have to worry about it! I remember a few months back when The Turtle went on about all the "horrible" things that his party would have the ability to do in the absence of the filibuster and my reaction was effectively, "OK - what's your point? You're threatening that you'd be forced to do exactly what you were elected to do?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osxmatt Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 2 hours ago, Jwheel86 said: Democrats should use the same mechanism on gun manufacturers. BREAKING: The Supreme Court just ruled 5-4 that any such law is unconstitutional. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TwinIon Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 7 minutes ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: I remember a few months back when The Turtle went on about all the "horrible" things that his party would have the ability to do in the absence of the filibuster and my reaction was effectively, "OK - what's your point? You're threatening that you'd be forced to do exactly what you were elected to do?" This is why I've been in favor of eliminating the filibuster. I want government to govern. I'm quite aware that at some point the GOP would have control and pass a bunch of stuff that I would rather they not, but I expect that a lot of the stuff they run on (abortion being an excellent example) would almost certainly be widely unpopular. Last time they had control, despite running on a message of repealing Obamacare and replacing it with something better, they never even proposed a plan. Right now there's a well founded expectation that nothing will get done, regardless of who gets elected. I can't say for sure if I'd be happy with the overall results or not, but I'd like to see us get to a place where we expect the government to actually do things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osxmatt Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 I'll tell you what, based on social media posts, I'm astonished how many friends and family members have no idea that "6 weeks pregnant" means 6 weeks since your last menstrual period. Most seem to think it means 6 weeks since your last missed period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputator Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 So majority white conservative Texas state governors and officials ensured that underprivileged minorities will have more babies, and that those babies will flood state welfare programs and also eventually dwarf the white population, ensuring that future generations of Texans will be majority liberal, and majority non-white governors and officials running the state? Sounds like Republicans are once again working to defeat themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 12 minutes ago, Reputator said: So majority white conservative Texas state governors and officials ensured that underprivileged minorities will have more babies, and that those babies will flood state welfare programs and also eventually dwarf the white population, ensuring that future generations of Texans will be majority liberal, and majority non-white governors and officials running the state? Sounds like Republicans are once again working to defeat themselves. You're up next Florida Legislature will consider abortion ‘heartbeat bill,’ Senate president says WWW.TAMPABAY.COM When asked for comment about potential new abortion restrictions, Wilton Simpson sent a reporter the smiling sunglasses emoji. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 6 hours ago, Reputator said: So majority white conservative Texas state governors and officials ensured that underprivileged minorities will have more babies, and that those babies will flood state welfare programs and also eventually dwarf the white population, ensuring that future generations of Texans will be majority liberal, and majority non-white governors and officials running the state? Sounds like Republicans are once again working to defeat themselves. I wouldn't be so sure. It's very important to note that a significant proportion of the Latin population is very much "conservative" in terms of social issues. It wouldn't surprise me if at least plurality (if not a majority) of Texans of Latin descent are favorably disposed to this legislation. It's a very tenuous assumption that a state with a plurality/majority Latin population would inherently be a "liberal" one, especially in regard to social issues. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted September 2, 2021 Share Posted September 2, 2021 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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