Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 But to @CitizenVectron's very salient point, the sheer cost disparity between the offensive capabilities of drones and the defensive capabilities currently employed to stop them certainly has not gone unnoticed. Not in the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uaarkson Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said: A few air defense items today, along with musings: Germany donating 100 Patriot missiles to Ukraine Ukraine destroyed a BUK-M2 air defense system with a small switchblade drone Ukraine destroyed a Pantsir-S1 air defense system with HIMARS Basically, we are in a new age where $10,000-$30,000 drones are able to take out $100 million+ defense systems. I can't imagine the theorizing inside the Pentagon and other areas about how to stop future waves of drones. What does an American forward position do in 2032 when there are 100+ drone strikes per day on their position, and the missiles that can take them down cost 10x as much as the drone? Isn’t it obvious? Eventually, all physical war will be fought exclusively with drones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 Need to have high power lasers (kw range) that use targeting data from radar, thermal, and visual cameras to take down multiple drones, big and small. Expending ammunition doesn't seem like the right approach with so many drones entering the current battlefield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 11 Author Share Posted June 11 1 minute ago, mclumber1 said: Need to have high power lasers (kw range) that use targeting data from radar, thermal, and visual cameras to take down multiple drones, big and small. Expending ammunition doesn't seem like the right approach with so many drones entering the current battlefield. Ironically, one of the more cost-effective (ammunition-wise) defenses has become old-school-style AA guns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 8 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: Ironically, one of the more cost-effective (ammunition-wise) defenses has become old-school-style AA guns. Exactly! Some old WW2-style ack-ack would do the trick nicely! Just fill the sky above the AO with some lovely shrapnel! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbobo Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 I said it earlier in this thread if the US isn't building hardened aircraft hangers everywhere including the continental US than we are absolutely begging for a drone Pearl Harbor style day Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted June 11 Share Posted June 11 3 hours ago, CitizenVectron said: A few air defense items today, along with musings: Germany donating 100 Patriot missiles to Ukraine Ukraine destroyed a BUK-M2 air defense system with a small switchblade drone Ukraine destroyed a Pantsir-S1 air defense system with HIMARS Basically, we are in a new age where $10,000-$30,000 drones are able to take out $100 million+ defense systems. I can't imagine the theorizing inside the Pentagon and other areas about how to stop future waves of drones. What does an American forward position do in 2032 when there are 100+ drone strikes per day on their position, and the missiles that can take them down cost 10x as much as the drone? Probably some sort of variation of a CWIS. File:Phalanx CIWS USS Jason Dunham.jpg - Wikipedia EN.M.WIKIPEDIA.ORG 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 11 Author Share Posted June 11 Biden just announced the US is providing another Patriot system. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 12 Author Share Posted June 12 If anyone needs another reason to confirm that Russia is evil: they've kidnapped over 700,000 children, at last count: Ukrainian children found on Russian adoption sites WWW.FT.COM FT identified and located four missing Ukrainian children in Russia, including one given false identity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 Seven Hundred Thousand. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 12 Author Share Posted June 12 9 minutes ago, CayceG said: Seven Hundred Thousand. The primary reason I have no room for anyone arguing that there should be peace on Russia's terms, that NATO is to blame, etc. Russia is literally taking most Ukrainian children in conquered territories and shipping them back to Russia to help increase the population. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Vic20 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 1 minute ago, CitizenVectron said: The primary reason I have no room for anyone arguing that there should be peace on Russia's terms, that NATO is to blame, etc. Russia is literally taking most Ukrainian children in conquered territories and shipping them back to Russia to help increase the population. And if the mass theft of children and presumably putting them in reprogramming camps isn't a war crime, what is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 12 Author Share Posted June 12 7 minutes ago, Mr.Vic20 said: And if the mass theft of children and presumably putting them in reprogramming camps isn't a war crime, what is? Yep, exactly. Russia is war-criming their way through Ukraine. It's infuriating when the NYT or other publication will have a major story on how Ukraine is "responsible" for an apartment building in Russia being destroyed (when a Russia AA missile fails mid-flight and hits one of their own buildings), even though Ukraine is taking incredible pains to not hit civilians or do anything of that sort. At the same time, Russia is going out of its way (with the blind eye of the Red Cross and others!) to illegally torture POWs, kidnap children, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Vic20 Posted June 12 Share Posted June 12 3 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: Yep, exactly. Russia is war-criming their way through Ukraine. It's infuriating when the NYT or other publication will have a major story on how Ukraine is "responsible" for an apartment building in Russia being destroyed (when a Russia AA missile fails mid-flight and hits one of their own buildings), even though Ukraine is taking incredible pains to not hit civilians or do anything of that sort. At the same time, Russia is going out of its way (with the blind eye of the Red Cross and others!) to illegally torture POWs, kidnap children, etc. Sure. Putin is a gangster with nukes so the world will apply a different set of rules to his regime. Mutually assured destruction has morphed into a seat at the table, regardless of behavior. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 US signs long-awaited bilateral security agreement with Ukraine KYIVINDEPENDENT.COM President Volodymyr Zelensky and U.S. President Joe Biden signed a long-awaited bilateral security agreement between Ukraine and the U.S. on the sidelines of the Group of Seven (G7) summit in Italy on June 13, Reuters reported. Quote The U.S. joins 15 other countries, including the U.K., Germany, and France, that have signed similar bilateral treaties to help Kyiv repel Russia's aggression. Zelensky and Japanese Prime Minister Fumio Kishida signed an agreement between Ukraine and Japan hours earlier on June 13. A major tangible part of this agreement is the commitment to provision multiple squadrons of F-16 attack aircraft. The US is not providing the jets (European nations are), but it looks like the US will fully equip them with weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 Yesterday Ukraine hit Crimea with 12+ ATACMS in a coordinated strike against air defense systems. Russia claims to have shot down 9+ missiles (believe it when I see it). Despite this, it appears that multiple S-300 and S-400 launchers and radar systems were destroyed. Ukraine appears to be demolishing Russia's southern air defense system piece by piece. Russia just deployed a brand-new S-500 system to Crimea this week...we'll see how long it lasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 13 Author Share Posted June 13 In a clearly transparent case of cooking the books, the US has just "discovered" that previously-supplied weapons were "overvalued" by $1.9 billion: This effectively means that the US can supply an additional $1.9 billion in weapons without costing it anything, or counting towards the approved limit from Congress. Strange how this has happened multiple times. lol "Oh yeah that Bradley was labeled as worth $1 million, but there was a bit of rust on one of the treads, so we're depreciating to $740." 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 That's the kind of government corruption I'm down for 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted June 13 Share Posted June 13 I've watched War Dogs and Lord of War (so I'm an expert ), this is a great way to use the system by comparison. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 15 hours ago, GeneticBlueprint said: That's the kind of government corruption I'm down for Only in this case. I bet they've used this for Israel too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 14 Author Share Posted June 14 Putin has just proposed a new "peace" deal: Ukraine ends the war (they are the aggressor) Ukraine pulls all forces back out of their Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts Russia promises to not invade those areas Ukraine will not join NATO Russia promises to not attack more The west will drop all sanctions on Russia Russia will keep all the land they control They promise not to take the land that Ukraine withdraws from Totally reasonable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted June 14 Share Posted June 14 3 hours ago, CitizenVectron said: Putin has just proposed a new "peace" deal: Ukraine ends the war (they are the aggressor) Ukraine pulls all forces back out of their Donetsk, Luhansk, Kherson and Zaporizhzhia oblasts Russia promises to not invade those areas Ukraine will not join NATO Russia promises to not attack more The west will drop all sanctions on Russia Russia will keep all the land they control They promise not to take the land that Ukraine withdraws from Totally reasonable! Putin - top negotiator. Give up nothing, demand everything despite not being in a position with leverage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 14 Author Share Posted June 14 Ukraine Strikes Blow To Russian Su-34 Fullback Base WWW.TWZ.COM Morosovsk Airfield, some 150 miles from the front lines, was hit by what Ukraine claims was a mass drone attack. Up to 70 Ukrainian drones took part in the attack. Perhaps 2 Su-34s destroyed/damaged, and apparently 6 pilots killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 14 Author Share Posted June 14 At this point, Ukraine appears to be using more long-range drones on a daily basis than Russia. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbobo Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 What drones are they using exactly? Locally produced ones? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted June 15 Share Posted June 15 41 minutes ago, elbobo said: What drones are they using exactly? Locally produced ones? Hopefully these: Tcvents Flying Unicorn Rc Toys, Flying Fairy Drone for Girls Rechargeable Flying Horse Remote Control Helicopter with Lighting Flying Ball Toys for Kids Age 6-8 9-14 Years and Up - ibspot.com IBSPOT.COM Flying Unicorn for Kids 6+: Super cool remote control flying unicorn for kids! We hope younger children can experience the fun of flying. In order to reduce... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 16 Author Share Posted June 16 Ukraine appears to have encircled Russian forces in Vovchansk. Videos of Ukrainian bombers (appear to operating with impunity) dropping guided American bombs on occupied buildings where the Russians are hiding. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 17 Author Share Posted June 17 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littleronin Posted June 17 Share Posted June 17 41 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: Return to the age of tank destroyers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 19 Author Share Posted June 19 Patriot missiles intended for Switzerland to go to Ukraine, Swiss outlet reports KYIVINDEPENDENT.COM According to Blick, Bern has an order totalling $340 million with Washington for the PAC-3 variant of the missile. Quote U.S.-made missiles for the Patriot air defense system manufactured for Switzerland are to be delivered to Ukraine despite contractual obligations, the Swiss outlet Blick reported on June 19, citing undisclosed sources. According to Blick, Bern has an order totaling $340 million with Washington for the PAC-3 variant of the missile. Sources told the outlet that the U.S. has decided to delay delivery to Switzerland and send them instead to Ukraine, which is in dire need of the weapons to protect against Russian aerial attacks. The PAC-3 missile is the most advanced used by the Patriot air defense system and is effective against ballistic missiles. Each missile costs $4.1 million. Looks like the US has decided (likely with permission from the Swiss) to divert an order of approximately 83 Patriot missiles to Ukraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 Well, the Swiss sure as hell don't need them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 19 Author Share Posted June 19 Also: Northrop planning to build munitions inside Ukraine - Breaking Defense BREAKINGDEFENSE.COM Northrop’s coproduction agreement is the first publicly acknowledged deal between a US defense prime and the Ukrainian government for a manufacturing project inside Ukraine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spork3245 Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 1 hour ago, CayceG said: Well, the Swiss sure as hell don't need them! What? How do you think they put holes in their cheese??? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted June 19 Share Posted June 19 I wasn't sure whether to put this in this thread or the Nagorno-Karabach thread but I figured it would get more eyes on it here. It's very likely that it was Russia's current war with Ukraine that contributed to their inability to do anything during last September's one-day war N-K conflict in Azerbaijan which showed Armenia that a lack of security guarantees by Russia means Armenia wants out of the CSTO as a result. I know the CSTO is mostly symbolic but it's still great to see Putin failing either way. Georgia and Azerbaijan left the CSTO in 1999 so now with Armenia freezing their membership with intention to leave I wonder what this means for the collective South Caucasus's NATO aspirations. We know Georgia wants in but their conflicts with Russia over Abkhazia and South Ossetia prevent this (same as with Moldova and Ukraine and their breakaway states). But Armenia at some point could happen, especially with the N-K issue essentially resolved at this point (militarily at least in Azerbaijan's favor, for good and bad), they just need to get a real peace treaty done to finalize things. Armenia to withdraw from Russia-led military alliance, accusing members of plotting war | CNN WWW.CNN.COM Armenia will leave a Russia-led military alliance, Prime Minister Nikol Pashinyan confirmed Wednesday, accusing members of the bloc of plotting a war against his country with Azerbaijan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted June 19 Author Share Posted June 19 The three-day war to take Kyiv has resulted in...Russia abandoning border positions against NATO countries: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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