PC The Epic Games Store lost $181 million in 2019 and $273 million in 2020 according to new court filings

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

I guess we now know what happened to those $10 discount coupons!
 

Epic Games lost almost $181 million & $273 million on EGS in 2019 and 2020, respectively

WWW.DSOGAMING.COM

---

According to the filling, Epic has lost around $181 million & $273 million on EGS in 2019 and 2020, respectively.

 

[ThreePi]

Is this legit or is this some creative accounting? Fortnite and Unreal licensing should more than make up for the money they're spending trying to be second fiddle to Steam.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

4 minutes ago, ThreePi said:

Is this legit or is this some creative accounting? Fortnite and Unreal licensing should more than make up for the money they're spending trying to be second fiddle to Steam.

 

No idea - the filing doesn't contain actual financial statements.

[Xbob42]

1 hour ago, ThreePi said:

Is this legit or is this some creative accounting? Fortnite and Unreal licensing should more than make up for the money they're spending trying to be second fiddle to Steam.

Maybe it just means the store operations without Fortnite? On the other hand, they give away millions of copies of games weekly and pay millions for exclusives. 

[Brian]

The store better be profitable by the time they file the IPO. 

[Dre801]

Yet they want to wage legal warfare with Apple.

[SimpleG]

Something seems off here, that means in 2020 Epic spent about 1.3 billion to run the EGS.

[Ghost_MH]

3 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

Something seems off here, that means in 2020 Epic spent about 1.3 billion to run the EGS.

 

I don't think anything is wrong here. This looks to be profit generated from the EGS, so that's 12% of that $265m minus whatever they spend on free games, exclusives, and development of the EGS, itself. If you told me that equaled -$273m for 2020, I'd say that was probably right.

[Keyser_Soze]

Just the cost of making sure gamers have freedom from monopoly

[Xbob42]

9 hours ago, SimpleG said:

Something seems off here, that means in 2020 Epic spent about 1.3 billion to run the EGS.

Uhh... does it?

 

 

Unless developers are literally giving games away for free, I imagine giving away 3/4ths of a billion free games is kind of expensive.

[SimpleG]

1 hour ago, Xbob42 said:

Uhh... does it?

 

 

Unless developers are literally giving games away for free, I imagine giving away 3/4ths of a billion free games is kind of expensive.

I dont disagree with you but the quantity is likely irrelevant because surely they would do a flat rate rather then per copy downloaded. Right?

After the first 6 months of eating shit you would think someone would come back and say "this isnt working" , and then again 6 months and again. 

[Xbob42]

25 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

I dont disagree with you but the quantity is likely irrelevant because surely they would do a flat rate rather then per copy downloaded. Right?

With the way they're throwing money around? I don't know. 

[Ghost_MH]

1 hour ago, SimpleG said:

I dont disagree with you but the quantity is likely irrelevant because surely they would do a flat rate rather then per copy downloaded. Right?

After the first 6 months of eating shit you would think someone would come back and say "this isnt working" , and then again 6 months and again. 

 

My understanding is that they pay developers a set rate, not full retail, per installation and not games claimed. If you've claimed every game they offer, but only installed and played two of them, Epic is only paying for those two. That would also explains why 2020 saw them lose more money than 2019. More people at home with more free time to play those free games.

[stepee]

3 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

My understanding is that they pay developers a set rate, not full retail, per installation and not games claimed. If you've claimed every game they offer, but only installed and played two of them, Epic is only paying for those two. That would also explains why 2020 saw them lose more money than 2019. More people at home with more free time to play those free games.

 

Sounds to me like we need to make sure to just install/uninstall the free games then!

[Ghost_MH]

8 minutes ago, stepee said:

Sounds to me like we need to make sure to just install/uninstall the free games then!

 

That sounds like a lot of effort to support devs whose games you don't want to play. You could also just install the games and play them, you know?

[Keyser_Soze]

22 minutes ago, stepee said:

 

Sounds to me like we need to make sure to just install/uninstall the free games then!

 

That would involve having the launcher on your computer though.

 

(I happen to have it installed because I had to run a beta test using it. That's right, I'll use it if you pay me! )

[stepee]

2 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

That sounds like a lot of effort to support devs whose games you don't want to play. You could also just install the games and play them, you know?

 

Actually PLAY a video game?! 

[stepee]

(I have nothing against the epic launcher/store actually and have bought games even non exclusive there)

[Ghost_MH]

2 minutes ago, stepee said:

Actually PLAY a video game?! 

 

It's quite a thing, right?

 

1 minute ago, stepee said:

(I have nothing against the epic launcher/store actually and have bought games even non exclusive there)

 

Same here. I have a pretty good collection of games, outside of the free ones, there. Honestly, if I have the choice, I'll grab the game there or somewhere like Humble just to give the devs a bigger cut. I really could not care less of having extra launchers on my PC. I'm also not going to spend cash on a PS5 when I have a great PC perfectly capable of playing those Playstation/EGS exclusives in 4k.

[Xbob42]

11 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

My understanding is that they pay developers a set rate, not full retail, per installation and not games claimed. If you've claimed every game they offer, but only installed and played two of them, Epic is only paying for those two. That would also explains why 2020 saw them lose more money than 2019. More people at home with more free time to play those free games.

That seems weird... is there a clause where if x amount of time has passed they no longer have to pay? Like if I install it in 4 years, for example. 

[crispy4000]

5 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

Same here. I have a pretty good collection of games, outside of the free ones, there. Honestly, if I have the choice, I'll grab the game there or somewhere like Humble just to give the devs a bigger cut. I really could not care less of having extra launchers on my PC. I'm also not going to spend cash on a PS5 when I have a great PC perfectly capable of playing those Playstation/EGS exclusives in 4k.

 

I prefer whoever sells the Steam version because I'll take the few cents back in card drops.

 

EGS only wins for me if it's for game I'd pay $5 for, and it's $15 everywhere else.  I've bought two games total from them.  Came very close with Outer Wilds, then I came to my senses about it showing up in Humble Choice at some point.

[Ghost_MH]

26 minutes ago, Xbob42 said:

That seems weird... is there a clause where if x amount of time has passed they no longer have to pay? Like if I install it in 4 years, for example. 

 

I have no idea. The full terms aren't at all public. I'm just gleaning from memory about the whole free games thing as it's come up in the news over the just year or two. If I were Epic, I'd have to imagine there's a time limit on when they'd pay. I also imagine there's a lot of data that shows that the vast majority of games that are bought and then not played within a year are never played. I'm fairly certain I have like a hundred games on Steam that fall under that category.

 

1 minute ago, crispy4000 said:

I prefer whoever sells the Steam version because I'll take the few cents back in card drops.

 

EGS only wins for me if it's for game I'd pay $5 for, and it's $15 everywhere else.  I've bought two games total from them.  Came very close with Outer Wilds, then I came to my senses about it showing up in Humble Choice at some point.

 

I don't think I've once ever cared about card drops or achievements or anything other than just the games, themselves. That may be why I don't really care about what launcher a game is on. They're all free to install, so I guess it's a big whatever to me. Like when The Witcher 3 came out, I bought it on GOG since I figured that would get the most money in CD Project's hands. A shame the company turned out to treat their employees like shit. Then again, Valve isn't exactly known for its great culture either.

[cusideabelincoln]

All that money and the EGS launcher is still a bloated performance hog.

[SimpleG]

EGS programmers trying to get the shopping cart added to the store

[Xbob42]

1 hour ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

I have no idea. The full terms aren't at all public. I'm just gleaning from memory about the whole free games thing as it's come up in the news over the just year or two. If I were Epic, I'd have to imagine there's a time limit on when they'd pay. I also imagine there's a lot of data that shows that the vast majority of games that are bought and then not played within a year are never played. I'm fairly certain I have like a hundred games on Steam that fall under that category.

 

 

I don't think I've once ever cared about card drops or achievements or anything other than just the games, themselves. That may be why I don't really care about what launcher a game is on. They're all free to install, so I guess it's a big whatever to me. Like when The Witcher 3 came out, I bought it on GOG since I figured that would get the most money in CD Project's hands. A shame the company turned out to treat their employees like shit. Then again, Valve isn't exactly known for its great culture either.

A big one for me personally is steam input support. This is actually annoying with both EGS and Game Pass, because neither plays nice with the Steam overlay, so if you want to use a non-Xbox pad, it's a pain in the ass. I switch up which controller I use all the time because I just enjoy using different gamepads, and Steam makes that seamless and makes everything feel native. 

 

A niche use case but one that has become more and more relevant over time as Steam has added support for more pads. Also great in the event that your Xbox pad surprises you with a low/dead battery or breaks or something, or maybe some local multilayer. 

[Keyser_Soze]

8 minutes ago, SimpleG said:

EGS programmers trying to get the shopping cart added to the store

 

Maybe closer to this

 

[Fizzzzle]

If Epic made a pleasant service, I would gladly use them over Steam. but they don't. So I don't.

 

I just don't understand how it's been this long and they don't have, y'know, shopping carts, customizable categories, collection organizing, achievements (I think they have achievements for some games now, right?)

 

I'll buy AC Valhalla on there when all the DLC comes out, but other than that I have had zero interest in buying a game on EGS instead of Steam, regardless of how much more the developers get. It's a shit product compared to Steam. I was completely happy to wait the year it took for The Outer Worlds to come to Steam, I wasn't in a hurry to play it.

[Keyser_Soze]

53 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

 I was completely happy to wait the year it took for The Outer Worlds to come to Steam, I wasn't in a hurry to play it.

 

You wouldn't have had to wait if you got it on game pass.

[crispy4000]

23 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

I don't think I've once ever cared about card drops or achievements or anything other than just the games, themselves.

I only care about card drops because I have a mild obsession with farming and gaming the market (both) to get more games.  That ~$75 extra I make a year goes a long way still.  Reduces my entertainment budget significantly, way more than rewards points or other methods people use to save on their purchase cost.
 

There’s even been years for me in the past as a student when I earned more from cards than I spent on games.

[Ghost_MH]

6 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

A big one for me personally is steam input support. This is actually annoying with both EGS and Game Pass, because neither plays nice with the Steam overlay, so if you want to use a non-Xbox pad, it's a pain in the ass. I switch up which controller I use all the time because I just enjoy using different gamepads, and Steam makes that seamless and makes everything feel native. 

 

A niche use case but one that has become more and more relevant over time as Steam has added support for more pads. Also great in the event that your Xbox pad surprises you with a low/dead battery or breaks or something, or maybe some local multilayer. 

 

What kind of problem do you have? Genuinely curious because I also switch between controllers and haven't had much in the way of issues. To date, I've used Xbox, Switch, 8bitdo, knockoff Chinese SNES controllers, and Oculus without much issue. Oculus because Tetris Effect, knockoff SNES controllers because I was using them with RetoArch and then feeling too lazy to grab a different controller. Turns out, there aren't a lot of games these days that don't expect you to have 4 shoulder buttons. Sundered was completely unplayable. I wouldn't really put that one on Epic, though.

 

Is there like a Steam-specific way of adding controllers that I just missed somewhere along the way? I'm looking online and it seems that some people are adding their controllers to their computers through Steam. I don't know if I've ever used the Steam controller menu outside of fiddling with the actual Steam controller. I actually liked that thing. It's a shame Valve killed it, because I think it was like one iteration off from being truly great. I also tried the Steam controller on some games just for shits and giggles and even if works...sort of. Some games don't know what to do with it. Control works fine, but auto-detects it as keyboard emulation. Subliminal has no idea where the left analog stick is, even though it know where every other button is. I haven't had the Steam controller plugged into this computer since I reinstalled Windows last year. I actually had to grab it from a box in the basement just now, so this was just plug and play and never even futz around in Steam to get it working.

 

Either way, I guess that probably would have been easier to do than X-input back in the Windows XP and 7 days; back when every new game required you to install Direct-X all over again. I remember adding controllers to Windows back then was something of a pain, but it's 2021 and just adding any controller to Windows 10 just has it work everywhere.

[cusideabelincoln]

14 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

A big one for me personally is steam input support. This is actually annoying with both EGS and Game Pass, because neither plays nice with the Steam overlay, so if you want to use a non-Xbox pad, it's a pain in the ass. I switch up which controller I use all the time because I just enjoy using different gamepads, and Steam makes that seamless and makes everything feel native. 

 

A niche use case but one that has become more and more relevant over time as Steam has added support for more pads. Also great in the event that your Xbox pad surprises you with a low/dead battery or breaks or something, or maybe some local multilayer. 

 

Yep, it's  a pain in the ass to use custom Steam controller configurations with EGS.  Start and quit the launchers in a specific order, then maybe restart the game, sometimes alt-tab, sometimes don't.  And you better not bring up the Steam overlay in-game or you'll break your custom config half the time.

 

6 hours ago, Ghost_MH said:

 

What kind of problem do you have? Genuinely curious because I also switch between controllers and haven't had much in the way of issues. To date, I've used Xbox, Switch, 8bitdo, knockoff Chinese SNES controllers, and Oculus without much issue. Oculus because Tetris Effect, knockoff SNES controllers because I was using them with RetoArch and then feeling too lazy to grab a different controller. Turns out, there aren't a lot of games these days that don't expect you to have 4 shoulder buttons. Sundered was completely unplayable. I wouldn't really put that one on Epic, though.

 

Is there like a Steam-specific way of adding controllers that I just missed somewhere along the way? I'm looking online and it seems that some people are adding their controllers to their computers through Steam. I don't know if I've ever used the Steam controller menu outside of fiddling with the actual Steam controller. I actually liked that thing. It's a shame Valve killed it, because I think it was like one iteration off from being truly great. I also tried the Steam controller on some games just for shits and giggles and even if works...sort of. Some games don't know what to do with it. Control works fine, but auto-detects it as keyboard emulation. Subliminal has no idea where the left analog stick is, even though it know where every other button is. I haven't had the Steam controller plugged into this computer since I reinstalled Windows last year. I actually had to grab it from a box in the basement just now, so this was just plug and play and never even futz around in Steam to get it working.

 

Either way, I guess that probably would have been easier to do than X-input back in the Windows XP and 7 days; back when every new game required you to install Direct-X all over again. I remember adding controllers to Windows back then was something of a pain, but it's 2021 and just adding any controller to Windows 10 just has it work everywhere.

 

The problem is using custom controller configurations configured through Steam.  Since Steam lets you bind anything you want, including macros, to any button you want, it's really nice in games with less robust in-game controller configurations.  The last game that annoyed me was Star Wars Squadrons, because I wanted to use the gyro and customized some abilities to be accessed quicker.  

 

The problem seems to be the EGS is detected as a 3D program and that confuses Steam.  If you add an EGS game to launch through Steam, the EGS launcher will first be loaded in order for it to load the game.  Sometimes the Steam Overlay will then not appear over your game as you would expect, but if you alt-tab you'll see the Steam overlay is on top of the EGS window. 

[Ghost_MH]

1 minute ago, cusideabelincoln said:

 

Yep, it's  a pain in the ass to use custom Steam controller configurations with EGS.  Start and quit the launchers in a specific order, then maybe restart the game, sometimes alt-tab, sometimes don't.  And you better not bring up the Steam overlay in-game or you'll break your custom config half the time.

 

 

The problem is using custom controller configurations configured through Steam.  Since Steam lets you bind anything you want, including macros, to any button you want, it's really nice in games with less robust in-game controller configurations.  The last game that annoyed me was Star Wars Squadrons, because I wanted to use the gyro and customized some abilities to be accessed quicker.  

 

The problem seems to be the EGS is detected as a 3D program and that confuses Steam.  If you add an EGS game to launch through Steam, the EGS launcher will first be loaded in order for it to load the game.  Sometimes the Steam Overlay will then not appear over your game as you would expect, but if you alt-tab you'll see the Steam overlay is on top of the EGS window. 

 

Ah, I've never messed with any of those options in Steam, so I had no idea what you all were talking about. I used to use an old license of Xpadder for that kind of thing. Thinking about it, I never reinstalled Xpadder when I rebuilt my PC. I should play around with it again. I've never used it with EGS fans.

[Xbob42]

Try using a Switch pad while playing any of the Kingdom Hearts games without using any third-party programs. Doesn't work at all for me. Only my Xbox pads will work natively. And KH3 has some bullshit where even if you do this kind of nonsense to launch it through Steam 

linear-gradient(310.77deg, #29AA9F 0%, #098EA6 100%)

PSA: This is how you set up Steam Input for Epic Games Launcher | ResetEra

WWW.RESETERA.COM

---

While looking over the Dauntless thread it seems like quite a few people are using old apps like PS4windows, and dealing with any controller bugs that natively support the controllers from...

or even this

Playing Epic Store Games on a Steam Link

SEANZWRITES.COM

---

While Epic Game Store has some great games, many of us prefer Steam. However, with just a bit of work, you can play Epic games on Steam and over a Steam Link.

 

 

it'll detect is as you trying to alter the exe or something and the game will crash after a Japanese anti-piracy message followed by "Epic Games Launcher is offline" or something to that effect.

 

It's really, really fucking obnoxious. 

 

I've also tried using programs like XOutPut, which technically works, but introduces weird system-wide hitching as it converts inputs. Not really sure why. It's the only solution I've found that actually works but it's still busted as hell.

So Epic can suck my taint.

[Ghost_MH]

3 hours ago, Xbob42 said:

Try using a Switch pad while playing any of the Kingdom Hearts games without using any third-party programs. Doesn't work at all for me. Only my Xbox pads will work natively. And KH3 has some bullshit where even if you do this kind of nonsense to launch it through Steam 

linear-gradient(310.77deg, #29AA9F 0%, #098EA6 100%)

PSA: This is how you set up Steam Input for Epic Games Launcher | ResetEra

WWW.RESETERA.COM

---

While looking over the Dauntless thread it seems like quite a few people are using old apps like PS4windows, and dealing with any controller bugs that natively support the controllers from...

or even this

Playing Epic Store Games on a Steam Link

SEANZWRITES.COM

---

While Epic Game Store has some great games, many of us prefer Steam. However, with just a bit of work, you can play Epic games on Steam and over a Steam Link.

 

 

it'll detect is as you trying to alter the exe or something and the game will crash after a Japanese anti-piracy message followed by "Epic Games Launcher is offline" or something to that effect.

 

It's really, really fucking obnoxious. 

 

I've also tried using programs like XOutPut, which technically works, but introduces weird system-wide hitching as it converts inputs. Not really sure why. It's the only solution I've found that actually works but it's still busted as hell.

So Epic can suck my taint.

 

Now I'm really curious, so I guess that means I'm buying Kingdom Hearts. I was planning to anyway since I was looking for a game I could play while my kids watched. Downloading now. I haven't played an entry since the first game hit the PS2, so I guess I'll just jump into 1.5.

[Ghost_MH]

@Xbob42 You just have the worst luck. I finished downloading/installing Kingdom Hearts on EGS and gave it a shot with my Pro controller synced via Bluetooth. At first it was terribly calibrated so I needed to fix that in Windows calibration tool, but then it worked fine. I mean, it worked fine before, but Sora was left running left. Kingdom Hearts even recognizes it as a Switch controller and swaps the A and B button placement.

 

I wonder if Steam is trying to take priority with the controller and that's screwing things up for you. I know I often close Stream completely when I play anything not from Steam because anytime I accidently press the Xbox or Home button it minimizing the game and opens the Steam client like some needy cat. Steam is definitely keeping tabs on your controller input even when you aren't playing something in Steam. It does it with EGS, Xbox, or even stuff like RetroArch. It's REALLY annoying when using Moonlight for a non-Steam game, like streaming RetroArch to my livingroom TV.

 

If it's a KH3 problem, I'll have to test it out another time. I just dropped $50 on KH1&2. I don't feel like dropping another $60 on KH3.

 

Either way, give this a shot. Close Steam completely, and then launch Kingdom Hearts directly from EGS without attempting anything weird to try to force it to work. Like I said, KH1&2 recognizes it as Switch controller natively without having to remap anything. I tested it with both a Nintendo-made Switch Pro controller and a third party Switch Pro controller. They both worked fine.