~*Official Thread of America's Return to Thoughts & Prayers Normalcy*~

[chakoo]

2 hours ago, 5timechamp said:

 

This one can be approved by the GOP, it is a non-white shooter so they can spin this around and claim that the “immigrant threat” validates the need for “good white real Americans” to have guns.. its a win win..

hell the victims even called for cops 5 different time and they didnt show up until after the fact… What is it with Texas cops and their response? are they Demolition Man disciples? seriously whats their Boggle??

 

I don't think you need the word can anymore, they already have and it continues to get more and more disgusting. Abbott in a tweet singled out that they were illegal immigrants (yet 1 of the dead had a green card). 

 

The more and more that comes out about this story the more sad and disgusting the state of gun culture in the US it becomes. 

[Jason]

32 minutes ago, MarSolo said:

Greg Abbott’s tweet about the Mexican man killing the five Hondurans is fucking disgusting. He had to specify that they were illegal immigrants.

 

And at least one of them had a green card. 

[TUFKAK]

Suspect in Texas massacre had been deported 4 times after entering US illegally, ICE source says | CNN

EDITION.CNN.COM

---

[Breaking news update, published at 12:47 p.m. ET]

And this will be the new talking point.

[ort]

Shockingly, Fox News isn't even featuring this story at all. Probably because this man killed other immigrants, which makes him a hero of the right, who seem to fantasize endlessly about slaughtering people trying to cross the border.

[skillzdadirecta]

4 hours ago, 5timechamp said:

 

This one can be approved by the GOP, it is a non-white shooter so they can spin this around and claim that the “immigrant threat” validates the need for “good white real Americans” to have guns.. its a win win..

hell the victims even called for cops 5 different time and they didnt show up until after the fact… What is it with Texas cops and their response? are they Demolition Man disciples? seriously whats their Boggle??

Yeah but he was an illegal immigrant who was STILL able to amass an arsenal. Too easy to get guns in this country.

[Jason]

11 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Yeah but he was an illegal immigrant who was STILL able to amass an arsenal. Too easy to get guns in this country.

 

Maybe he came over the border with some of those Fast and Furious guns.

[Ghost_MH]

3 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Yeah but he was an illegal immigrant who was STILL able to amass an arsenal. Too easy to get guns in this country.

 

That's the hook right. There's always this talk about how gun regulations wouldn't stop criminals, but where are criminals getting their guns? The US exports guns used in crimes in Mexico and Canada. States with lax gun laws export guns to states with strict gun laws. Gun fetishists won't even budge on the tracking of legally purchased guns.

[CastletonSnob]

Are guns too cheap?

Cheaper means more, accessible, right? So why not make guns more expensive?

[Ghost_MH]

1 minute ago, CastletonSnob said:

Are guns too cheap?

Cheaper means more, accessible, right? So why not make guns more expensive?

 

Obligatory

 

 

[Fizzzzle]

If a gun was purchased legally through a licensed seller, then whatever, but (imo) if someone commits a crime wherein the gun can be traced, whoever sold it (or technically owns it) should bear responsibility for that crime.

 

Oh, your son "borrowed your gun" to commit a mass shooting? Guess what, you're getting 25-life.

Oh, you sold a gun on the second-hand market with no evidence to track who it belongs to and that gun was used for murder? Don't bother packing your bags, you won't need luggage where you're going.

 

Of course, for that we would actually need to keep track of where all of our manufactured guns end up, which we don't unless it's part of an active criminal investigation.

 

I feel like that might be the first thing to chip away at. Make it illegal to be in possession of a firearm that isn't registered to your name. The government should have a database of every gun in the country that leaves the factory, track where they went and who they got sold to. If a seller ever doesn't operate by the book and sells a gun under the table, then they're partially responsible for whatever that gun is used for after they sell it. Don't frame it like "the government wants to keep tabs on your guns," frame it like "we want to make sure the gun manufacturers are being responsible with who they sell their guns to." Put the onus on the people who make and sell the guns, not the people who own them.

 

Of course, that will never happen because government/money/lobbyists/blah blah blah etc etc...

[Guest]

Just thinking about things I read here and elsewhere, but I don’t understand the focus spent on assault rifles and mass shootings. Handguns completely dwarf the impact of both but I see people talk about the others all the time and the handgun problem far less often.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Guns aren't exactly cheap. The ammo is pretty expensive these days, too. I paid $45 for a box of 20 shells for my 7mm-08. Kinda ridiculous.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

5 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Just thinking about things I read here and elsewhere, but I don’t understand the focus spent on assault rifles and mass shootings. Handguns completely dwarf the impact of both but I see people talk about the others all the time and the handgun problem far less often.

I'd ban handguns, too. I just think the assault rifles get a lot of press since they've become the de facto choice for mass shooters and the damage they cause is horrific.

[skillzdadirecta]

20 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Just thinking about things I read here and elsewhere, but I don’t understand the focus spent on assault rifles and mass shootings. Handguns completely dwarf the impact of both but I see people talk about the others all the time and the handgun problem far less often.

Because you can kill a lot more people more quickly with assault rifles and they are FAR more lethal. Also there are arguable reasons for citizens to own hunting rifles, shotguns and even certain handguns. There is NO reason a citizen should have access to assault weapons. None at all. In a lot of cases these guys are better armed than most law enforcement officers outside of SWAT.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Because you can kill a lot more people more quickly with assault rifles and they are FAR more lethal. Also there are arguable reasons for citizens to own hunting rifles, shotguns and even certain handguns. There is NO reason a citizen should have access to assault weapons. None at all. In a lot of cases these guys are better armed than most law enforcement officers outside of SWAT.

Handguns are the weapon of choice in anywhere from 20 to 30 times more homicides annually than all rifles.

 

When you start factoring in suicides, the death toll from handguns relative to any other firearm gets closer to 100x the next closest.

 

As usual, we are afraid of the wrong things.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

3 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Handguns are the weapon of choice in anywhere from 20 to 30 times more homicides annually than all rifles.

 

When you start factoring in suicides, the death toll from handguns relative to any other firearm gets closer to 100x the next closest.

 

As usual, we are afraid of the wrong things.

The "gangstas in the hood" shooting each other with handguns doesn't stick in the news for days on end. I'm not saying that's all it is with handguns, but it's definitely the perception a lot of every day people have. Most people don't care about suicides, either, unless it directly affects them.

[skillzdadirecta]

1 minute ago, sblfilms said:

Handguns are the weapon of choice in anywhere from 20 to 30 times more homicides annually than all rifles.

 

When you start factoring in suicides, the death toll from handguns relative to any other firearm gets closer to 100x the next closest.

 

As usual, we are afraid of the wrong things.

Yeah I know the stats too. I also know that a wound from an assault rifle is damn near guaranteed to kill or maim. Gun control proponents want ALL guns regulated but see Assault rifles as low-hanging fruit in the gun debate. We can't even get THOSE regulated so why waste energy trying to go after other guns that are easier to defend owning? 

[osxmatt]

4 hours ago, ort said:

Shockingly, Fox News isn't even featuring this story at all. Probably because this man killed other immigrants, which makes him a hero of the right, who seem to fantasize endlessly about slaughtering people trying to cross the border.

 

I flipped thru the news channels this morning and Fox was absolutely talking about with Chip Roy. They were talking about how illegal immigration is out of control and how it needs to be stopped and how it could have prevented this.

 

Apparently 1 illegal immigrant mass murderer is proof we need to do something about immigration, but 30k gun deaths is proof of nothing and just like well what can you do?

[Fizzzzle]

45 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

Yeah I know the stats too. I also know that a wound from an assault rifle is damn near guaranteed to kill or maim. Gun control proponents want ALL guns regulated but see Assault rifles as low-hanging fruit in the gun debate. We can't even get THOSE regulated so why waste energy trying to go after other guns that are easier to defend owning? 

Actually a .22 shot to the head is much more likely to kill you than a .45. mainly because it doesn't have enough velocity to exit out the other side, it just fragments in your brain. A .45 will likely leave a clean exit wound, which increases your survival rate dramatically. And by dramatically I mean you're still probably going to die, but you have better odds relatively speaking.

 

Semi-automatic guns should be banned entirely except for people like cops and judges who have legitimate reason that someone might be out to kill them. People who operate legally but have a target on their back but aren't important enough to have like a fucking security detail.

[BloodyHell]

1 hour ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

I'd ban handguns, too. I just think the assault rifles get a lot of press since they've become the de facto choice for mass shooters and the damage they cause is horrific.

The damage they cause is no different than any similar caliber, tbh. The reports on the damage are extremely misleading. It’s not going to do the damage your 7mm, or my .300wsm, and certainly not near my .300blk. 
 

The problem with the AR is that it’s really cheap to buy and fire comparatively, and has very high capacity attachments. I have no doubt that if it wasn’t for the difference in cost, my .300blk AR-15would be a far more popular rifle. But it cost me six times what my standard AR did.

 

Ive shot plenty of animals with 5.56 ammo, it doesn’t do anything special, and doesn’t leave the damage bigger calibers do, especially when you get into hollow points. But they are expensive to shoot. 30 rounds for my .300blk averages about 75$. 1000 rounds in 5.56 can be had for as little as 200$ during sales.

 

Everything around the AR15 is cheap all around, and it’s an extremely effective and effortless weapon.

 

I agree with banning them, but what do you do with the millions in circulation? People aren’t going to just hand them in.

[BloodyHell]

18 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

Actually a .22 shot to the head is much more likely to kill you than a .45. mainly because it doesn't have enough velocity to exit out the other side, it just fragments in your brain. A .45 will likely leave a clean exit wound, which increases your survival rate dramatically. And by dramatically I mean you're still probably going to die, but you have better odds relatively speaking.

 

Semi-automatic guns should be banned entirely except for people like cops and judges who have legitimate reason that someone might be out to kill them. People who operate legally but have a target on their back but aren't important enough to have like a fucking security detail.

There’s plenty of semi automatic guns rifles with built in magazines that only hold 3 to 5 bullets, not to mention millions of shotguns used for waterfowl every day. Theres no need to ban all semiautomatic weapons. Just anything with removable standard magazines.

[Fizzzzle]

3 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

The damage they cause is no different than any similar caliber, tbh. The reports on the damage are extremely misleading. It’s not going to do the damage your 7mm, or my .300wsm, and certainly not near my .300blk. 
 

The problem with the AR is that it’s really cheap to buy and fire comparatively, and has very high capacity attachments. I have no doubt that if it wasn’t for the difference in cost, my .300blk AR-15would be a far more popular rifle. But it cost me six times what my standard AR did.

 

Ive shot plenty of animals with 5.56 ammo, it doesn’t do anything special, and doesn’t leave the damage bigger calibers do, especially when you get into hollow points. But they are expensive to shoot. 30 rounds for my .300blk averages about 75$. 1000 rounds in 5.56 can be had for as little as 200$ during sales.

 

Everything around the AR15 is cheap all around, and it’s an extremely effective and effortless weapon.

 

I agree with banning them, but what do you do with the millions in circulation? People aren’t going to just hand them in.

Gun buyback program. Give the government a gun and get, I dunno, $1000 tax-free for every gun.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

3 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

The damage they cause is no different than any similar caliber, tbh. The reports on the damage are extremely misleading. It’s not going to do the damage your 7mm, or my .300wsm, and certainly not near my .300blk. 
 

The problem with the AR is that it’s really cheap to buy and fire comparatively, and has very high capacity attachments. I have no doubt that if it wasn’t for the difference in cost, my .300blk AR-15would be a far more popular rifle. But it cost me six times what my standard AR did.

 

Ive shot plenty of animals with 5.56 ammo, it doesn’t do anything special, and doesn’t leave the damage bigger calibers do, especially when you get into hollow points. But they are expensive to shoot. 30 rounds for my .300blk averages about 75$. 1000 rounds in 5.56 can be had for as little as 200$ during sales.

 

Everything around the AR15 is cheap all around, and it’s an extremely effective and effortless weapon.

 

I agree with banning them, but what do you do with the millions in circulation? People aren’t going to just hand them in.

Yes, I'm well aware, but the point is, you're not going to commit a mass shooting and blow away dozens of people in minutes with a high powered bolt-action hunting rifle that hold 5 rounds. That's what makes the AR and similar guns so deadly effective.

[BloodyHell]

2 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

Gun buyback program. Give the government a gun and get, I dunno, $1000 tax-free for every gun.

Again, people in the USA aren’t willingly handing over their firearms. You might get a few, but not even close to the majority 

 

why would I want 1000$ for a rifle worth more than that?

[Fizzzzle]

1 minute ago, BloodyHell said:

There’s plenty of semi automatic guns rifles with built in magazines that only hold 3 to 5 bullets, not to mention millions of shotguns used for waterfowl every day. Theres no need to ban all semiautomatic weapons. Just anything with removable standard magazines.

Am I wrong for associating guns that automatically load the chamber after the last fire as being "semi-automatic?" 

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Just now, Fizzzzle said:

Am I wrong for associating guns that automatically load the chamber after the last fire as being "semi-automatic?" 

No, you're correct. There's just a big difference in the effectiveness of an AR or similar style gun with a detachable 30 round magazine or the old .30-06 semi-auto my father-in-law used to hunt with that holds like 4 or 5 rounds.

[Fizzzzle]

Just now, BloodyHell said:

Again, people in the USA aren’t willingly handing over their firearms. You might get a few, but not even close to the majority 

Yeah but people can't afford rent. Force the choice between their guns and being homeless and the vast majority of people will sort out their priorities real quick.

 

Australia already did it.

[BloodyHell]

5 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said:

Am I wrong for associating guns that automatically load the chamber after the last fire as being "semi-automatic?" 

No, but the problem with the AR is its capacity. 30 rounds right up to 100 round drums, and the price of ammo compared to most firearms (60$ for 20 for my .300, 200$/1000 for the AR.

 

plenty of semi automatic weapons only hold a dew rounds, like shotguns and most hunting rifles.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

Just now, Fizzzzle said:

Yeah but people can't afford rent. Force the choice between their guns and being homeless and the vast majority of people will sort out their priorities real quick.

 

Australia already did it.

I doubt the gun culture in Australia was what it is here. There's also a lot more guns in circulation here. Don't get me wrong, I'm all good with buybacks, but I question how many people are going to willingly sell back these guns when they based their identity around them. And I doubt the people who can afford all these guns are the same ones struggling to pay rent.

[BloodyHell]

1 minute ago, Fizzzzle said:

Yeah but people can't afford rent. Force the choice between their guns and being homeless and the vast majority of people will sort out their priorities real quick.

 

Australia already did it.

Australia is not the USA, and you know it.

 

and what, you want the government to force rent so high millions end up homeless to get their guns? With that government, it sounds like they need those guns. I don’t get how you equate guns to rent?

[Fizzzzle]

1 minute ago, BloodyHell said:

Australia is not the USA, and you know it.

 

and what, you want the government to force rent so high millions end up homeless to get their guns? With that government, it sounds like they need those guns. I don’t get how you equate guns to rent?

Forcing rent is not the point I was making and you know that.

 

There's a reason Australia's gun buy back program worked. When push comes to shove, most people will take money over their John McClain fantasy.

[Fizzzzle]

5 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said:

I doubt the gun culture in Australia was what it is here. There's also a lot more guns in circulation here. Don't get me wrong, I'm all good with buybacks, but I question how many people are going to willingly sell back these guns when they based their identity around them. And I doubt the people who can afford all these guns are the same ones struggling to pay rent.

You are right about the amount of guns in circulation. And maybe we have passed the point of no return in terms of people tying their identities to their guns. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

[BloodyHell]

Just now, Fizzzzle said:

Forcing rent is not the point I was making and you know that.

 

There's a reason Australia's gun buy back program worked. When push comes to shove, most people will take money over their John McClain fantasy.

No, they won’t. America is not Australia. There will be no widespread selling of rifles to the government, period. People won’t do it, no matter what scenario you try to “force”.

[Fizzzzle]

8 minutes ago, BloodyHell said:

No, but the problem with the AR is its capacity. 30 rounds right up to 100 round drums, and the price of ammo compared to most firearms (60$ for 20 for my .300, 200$/1000 for the AR.

 

plenty of semi automatic weapons only hold a dew rounds, like shotguns and most hunting rifles.

I mean... With any magazine-loaded gun, you can always just make a bigger magazine. A magazine is just a bullet holder with a spring at the bottom.

[CastlevaniaNut18]

1 minute ago, Fizzzzle said:

You are right about the amount of guns in circulation. And maybe we have passed the point of no return in terms of people tying their identities to their guns. That doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

I'm all for it. But I think you underestimate the dedication of gun nuts in this country. Especially the type of people who go out and buy ARs.