SimpleG Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 Again you guys dont understand the mindset 17 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said: where 20 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said: when 20 minutes ago, Fizzzzle said: and why None of that needs to be justified or explained for these folks, in fact arguing that any of those matter will cause them to dig in further. These are the same people that will argue they should be allowed to carry in schools, banks, prisons. Just so you aware I am not saying they are correct but this how they think, guns are a silent right that never should be question or argued and will actually see that they correct because the gun saved his life. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyHell Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 Thats some serious stretching @Fizzzzle This is not Cali or NYC, and there is no when and where. Open carry is legal, and so is self defence. He literally tried to retreat from the attackers, while NOT pointing his weapon at them. They pursued AND attacked him with deadly weapons. He responded in kind to save his own life. There is no other interpretation a jury in the Midwest will see. I know the left really wants him to be guilty, and likes using incendiary terms like terrorist, such as the title of this thread, but there is no basis for it beyond pure anger because they see their side as right. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 2 hours ago, sblfilms said: Maybe my point is unclear: to boil it down, it’s way easier to win when the low is on your side. It weighs a lot. It isn’t the only thing, but both sides in a court case would always prefer to be on the side with the stronger backing of the text of the law. There are lots of high profile cases in particular where juries get very hung up on what the text of the law actually says and means. Don’t undersell that piece of the equation! You are absolutely correct. I don't mean to undersell it - middle America is a fucked place and I imagine they may hold it to account legally haha. 2 hours ago, SimpleG said: I should have been more clear Mid Western America , I ve been here long enough to know that arguing that open carry was provocation would all but guarantee you would lose the case. Guns in the mid west carry no more stigma for most people then carrying a cell phone does. Well, as I always do: We need better gun laws and we needed them yesterday. *sigh* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 1 hour ago, Fizzzzle said: It's not simply that he was open-carrying, it's about where, when, and why he was open carrying, and what his intent was in doing so. Carrying a gun is legal, intent to use it is not, necessarily. Also, in some states (not sure about Wisconsin), a "self-defense" defense actually kind of works like guilty-until-proven-innocent. That's not the case in all states, like Florida is one, for example. But in my state, as far as I am aware, there is no negligent/reckless homicide law, it's just either murder or manslaughter. Murder is intentional, manslaughter is either reckless or negligent. But, if you irrefutably kill someone and want to present a self-defense defense, the onus kind of actually switches to the defendant to prove that they had no recourse other than fatal force. It's really not on the prosecution to prove a negative (i.e. "we can't prove he WASN'T in fear for his life, therefore he's scott free.") If they made the jury selection for his trial pay per view, I'd watch it. I agree with you - and my experience in law says the same - but the midwest could be even more fucked up than you and I realize. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimpleG Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 30 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: We need better gun laws and we needed them yesterday. *sigh* You are not wrong, it wont happen though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted February 14, 2021 Share Posted February 14, 2021 4 hours ago, sblfilms said: I think private gun ownership is a failed policy and wish Dems actually were trying to confiscate America’s guns Exactly. Guns have no role in a modern society. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BloodyHell Posted February 15, 2021 Share Posted February 15, 2021 On 2/14/2021 at 12:21 AM, thewhyteboar said: Exactly. Guns have no role in a modern society. Ill just agree to disagree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 They’re gonna give this assassin a medal. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Under normal circumstances, it's pretty ballsy to testify in your own trial. But considering that the prosecution is a team of banana peels, I think Kyle is going to walk free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Haven’t been following closely, but there are some moments that have come up during the state’s turn that don’t bode well for an conviction on the murder charges. It is also generally a bad sign for the defendant to testify in their own defense. Who knows? He had some gun charges too, right? I could see a scenario in which the jury finds guilt on the gun charges so he gets some penalty but maybe acquits on the murder charges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyPiranha Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 If you make a self defense argument, you have to testify. It’s not optional. Same reason Jodi Arias was on the stand for so long. His counsel has no decision on the matter at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, sblfilms said: Who knows? He had some gun charges too, right? I could see a scenario in which the jury finds guilt on the gun charges so he gets some penalty but maybe acquits on the murder charges. I think he'd just get time served. Judge has just ripped the prosecutor twice. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 I get the "this kid is fucked and gonna die in jail" vibes but it's also Anerikkka so 🤷♂️ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 The paradox of course is that if you’re so scared of someone coming at you with a skateboard you’re the worst possible person to be armed with a gun, but it’s America and gun owners are as a group the least secure, most frightened, least rational people walking the earth, so… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 3 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said: If you make a self defense argument, you have to testify. It’s not optional. Same reason Jodi Arias was on the stand for so long. His counsel has no decision on the matter at all. I don’t believe this is accurate, or it may be different depending on the state. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnny Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 he's walking for sure Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 22 minutes ago, LazyPiranha said: If you make a self defense argument, you have to testify. It’s not optional. Same reason Jodi Arias was on the stand for so long. His counsel has no decision on the matter at all. There is NEVER an obligation to testify in your own trial. Doing so would violate the Fifth Amendment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyPiranha Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 You cannot be forced to testify, but you also don’t have to make certain defenses. Strictly speaking you could, on paper, make a self defense argument and not testify, but it’s rare. I may have been mistaken as to it being a strict legal necessity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 8 minutes ago, mclumber1 said: There is NEVER an obligation to testify in your own trial. Doing so would violate the Fifth Amendment. Doing a little Google scholarship, I do believe there are states in which you can’t make an affirmative defense (“I broke the law, but it’s ok because…”) without testifying. I don’t believe Wisconsin requires defendant testimony in affirmative defense cases. Several articles I read noted George Zimmerman explicitly made and affirmative defense in his trial for killing Trayvon Martin, but did not testify in his of defense, so it would appear that Florida is another state where this is not required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elbobo Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 The prosecution has been bad on this case like really bad, to the point where the one person that survived getting shot by Rittenhouse admitted on the stand that he was pointing a gun at Rittenhouse when he was shot, this was the prosecution's witness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 "We are not trying to attack the character of Mr. Rittenhouse, but we want to show the jury a picture of Mr. Rittenhouse with a bunch of Proud Boys at a bar 4 months after the incident." -The Prosecution Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 1 minute ago, elbobo said: The prosecution has been bad on this case like really bad, to the point where the one person that survived getting shot by Rittenhouse admitted on the stand that he was pointing a gun at Rittenhouse when he was shot, this was the prosecution's witness. Judge just said the Prosecution is acting in bad faith. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mclumber1 Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 I bet Steven Avery (Making a Murderer) wishes this prosecutor was on his case! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CayceG Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioandsonic Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 13 minutes ago, CayceG said: This is beyond parody. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzzzle Posted November 10, 2021 Share Posted November 10, 2021 Once the one witness said he pointed his gun at Kyle first, it was done. There were no witnesses to the other shootings. The unfortunate failing (or success, depending on how you look at it) of the justice system here is that they did not look at the bigger picture of why Kyle was there. One camp says "he went looking for a fight, he found it, and 2 people died" and that's the side I fall on. He escalated a situation in a criminally negligent way. He had intent, he knew what he was doing. It's like going into a cop funeral with a fake bomb to your chest and shouting "Allah hu akhbar" or jumping into a polar bear enclosure. At some point, it was your choice to do that, and the consequences should reflect that. Henry once it gets into a court of law, that kind of shit gets hard to identify. If I'm being objective, I wish he got life. He went looking for a fight and got one x because he's a moron, and people died because he wanted to project to the world that his penis if ABSOLUTELY above average. But, on the other hand, the prosecution team had no case once the witness said they pointed the gun first. Edit: typed that on my phone, don't care to fix it 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastlevaniaNut18 Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 Yep, the little shithead is gonna walk. I never really expected anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 People are dead because this white supremacist pipsqueak had access to a gun and wanted to play vigilante. It's disgusting if he gets away with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricofoley Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 100% chance this dude is walking away free from this, and I'd say like a 50/50 chance he's a Republican in the House when he turns 25. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marioandsonic Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 5 minutes ago, Ricofoley said: 100% chance this dude is walking away free from this, and I'd say like a 50/50 chance he's a Republican in the House when he turns 25. Or he'll get a job a Fox News. Or be part of Trump's 2024 cabinet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 Now someone here has to want this as their avatar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 Just now, Bacon said: Now someone here has to want this as their avatar I won't allow it. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: I won't allow it. Would you like my reaction to your post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 28 minutes ago, Bacon said: Would you like my reaction to your post? Sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bacon Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 1 minute ago, Commissar SFLUFAN said: Sure. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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