Jason Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThreePi Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Is Rudy next? Presidential Transition Live Updates: Giuliani Said to Have Discussed Pre-Emptive Pardon Before Trump Leaves Office - The New York Times WWW.NYTIMES.COM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSpreader Posted December 2, 2020 Share Posted December 2, 2020 6 hours ago, Jason said: Yes, great idea! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 Trump is reportedly considering a pardon for the Trump Organization's chief financial officer NEWS.YAHOO.COM Over the last six weeks, so many people have been calling and emailing the West Wing seeking pardons that White House staffers have had to create a spreadsheet to keep track of the requests, CNN reports."It's turned crazy," one person familiar with the matter said. "There's a lot of activity." The queries have been coming in from business associates close to Trump as well as high-profile criminals, CNN reports, and when... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 It's like they don't understand pardon's are an admittance of guilt for the one being pardoned, for whatever crimes they are being pardoned for. It's the equivalent of pleading guilty in court, but being let go afterwards. You are forever on the record as being guilty of those crimes you were pardoned for though. You become a felon, and have to explain to any future jobs, etc. you are a pardoned felon. And you can't be pardoned unless specific crimes are laid out for which you are then pardoned for. It's not a catch-all, there is paperwork involved. It is not the same as a settlement (settlements are legally not an admittance of wrong doing) and it is not an expungement of your crime of record (where everything is deleted and burned as if the crime never happened - usually done for people under 21 with minor crimes who want their records clear for like underage drinking). Pardons are their own thing. "I am pardoned for any crimes I may have committed" does not fly. It has to be: "I am pardoned for being guilty of theft, first degree murder, etc." Sounds quite different when it goes on one's "permanent record". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 These people don't care because they will continue to publicly insist they are innocent (what punishment is there for that? Nothing), and they already have the connections and money to not have to apply for a job on paper. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, Greatoneshere said: It's like they don't understand pardon's are an admittance of guilt for the one being pardoned, for whatever crimes they are being pardoned for. It's the equivalent of pleading guilty in court, but being let go afterwards. You are forever on the record as being guilty of those crimes you were pardoned for though. You become a felon, and have to explain to any future jobs, etc. you are a pardoned felon. And you can't be pardoned unless specific crimes are laid out for which you are then pardoned for. It's not a catch-all, there is paperwork involved. It is not the same as a settlement (settlements are legally not an admittance of wrong doing) and it is not an expungement of your crime of record (where everything is deleted and burned as if the crime never happened - usually done for people under 21 with minor crimes who want their records clear for like underage drinking). Pardons are their own thing. "I am pardoned for any crimes I may have committed" does not fly. It has to be: "I am pardoned for being guilty of theft, first degree murder, etc." Sounds quite different when it goes on one's "permanent record". Yeah I still have no idea why people think this ‘preemptive pardon’ bullshit is going to work. I don’t doubt Trump will try it, but there is a 0.0 percent chance the Biden DoJ or federal judiciary go along with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted December 17, 2020 Share Posted December 17, 2020 1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said: These people don't care because they will continue to publicly insist they are innocent (what punishment is there for that? Nothing), and they already have the connections and money to not have to apply for a job on paper. For sure, but these people, at this level, do care about their reputations and if they are forever pardoned for crimes they are guilty of (whether it's the case or not - it is the case here though) seems like a damning statement, but I guess in the Fox News/OANN/NewsMax universe it makes them probably look even cooler, etc. 3 minutes ago, Chris- said: Yeah I still have no idea why people think this ‘preemptive pardon’ bullshit is going to work. I don’t doubt Trump will try it, but there is a 0.0 percent chance the Biden DoJ or federal judiciary go along with it. Yeah, exactly. They actually have to outline specific crimes that then need pardoning, pardoning isn't just: "I'm free of all liability I have committed up to this point" for obvious reasons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 On 12/2/2020 at 3:21 AM, Jason said: What is, “freedom never kneels except for god,” supposed to mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 28 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said: What is, “freedom never kneels except for god,” supposed to mean? You gotta be balls deep into the MAGA Cinematic Universe to catch all the references. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Uaarkson Posted December 18, 2020 Share Posted December 18, 2020 It means your freedoms end where my religion begins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osxmatt Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osxmatt Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Just now, osxmatt said: My stomach churned reading that he pardoned those Blackwater guards. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Republicans are the party of law and order! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 5 minutes ago, Chris- said: My stomach churned reading that he pardoned those Blackwater guards. Pardoning corrupt dickhole congressmen is infuriating, but pardoning these guards is just pure evil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted December 23, 2020 Author Share Posted December 23, 2020 these are worse than I ever imagined, but my imagination isn't that great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted December 23, 2020 Author Share Posted December 23, 2020 And of course the wapo push notification said nothing on the war criminals but instead spoke of the gop congressmen and russia probe people like anyone really cares about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted December 23, 2020 Author Share Posted December 23, 2020 figures Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osxmatt Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 32 minutes ago, thewhyteboar said: Pardoning corrupt dickhole congressmen is infuriating, but pardoning these guards is just pure evil. Pete Hegseth likes them tho and he’s ready for a prime time spot on Fox when Tucker leaves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_MH Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Cool. Why would any country the US ever operates in ever trust this country to bring murderers to justice? It doesn't even matter who the president is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Meanwhile... Biden says the Pentagon isn't briefing his team on the suspected Russian cyberattack WWW.BUSINESSINSIDER.COM "The Department of Defense won't even brief us on many things," the president-elect said of the sophisticated cyberattack against the US. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5timechamp Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 I like how the outrage over certain pardons distract from others... its a smart play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reputator Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 I don't know why or how, but I'm actually shocked at the immorality of these pardons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 2 minutes ago, Reputator said: I don't know why or how, but I'm actually shocked at the immorality of these pardons. After all this time, it's still shocking how evil this fucker is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzzzle Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 On 12/17/2020 at 12:11 PM, Greatoneshere said: It's like they don't understand pardon's are an admittance of guilt for the one being pardoned, for whatever crimes they are being pardoned for. It's the equivalent of pleading guilty in court, but being let go afterwards. "I am pardoned for any crimes I may have committed" does not fly. It has to be: "I am pardoned for being guilty of theft, first degree murder, etc." Sounds quite different when it goes on one's "permanent record". On 12/17/2020 at 2:09 PM, Chris- said: Yeah I still have no idea why people think this ‘preemptive pardon’ bullshit is going to work. I don’t doubt Trump will try it, but there is a 0.0 percent chance the Biden DoJ or federal judiciary go along with it. Technically true, but the effect that the preemptive pardon has is that no one will bother investigating/prosecuting/convicting them of crimes if they're just going to get let off the hook. There's no point. And the president absolutely can give general pardons. Nixon was pardoned for any federal crime he "may or may not have committed or participated in" while in the White House. The president doesn't even have to name a specific crime. Andrew Johnson gave a blanket pardon to every confederate soldier after the civil war. There are a few other examples. So, while technically yes, accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt, they're never going to get convicted of anything in the first place, so it's a moot point. The president can pardon anyone for any reason, he doesn't have to name a specific crime, or even a specific person. In theory the president could pardon everyone in the entire country for every federal crime. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fizzzzle Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 There's not even a law that *specifically* says the President can't pardon himself, though there are laws that say the president isn't above prosecution for crimes committed while in office, so it would probably be argued in court that the constitution *implies* that the President cannot pardon himself. No one has ever tried it before, though, so if Trump tried to pardon himself, it would definitely go to the Supreme Court. edit: typo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 He kept his promise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 3 hours ago, Fizzzzle said: Technically true, but the effect that the preemptive pardon has is that no one will bother investigating/prosecuting/convicting them of crimes if they're just going to get let off the hook. There's no point. And the president absolutely can give general pardons. Nixon was pardoned for any federal crime he "may or may not have committed or participated in" while in the White House. The president doesn't even have to name a specific crime. Andrew Johnson gave a blanket pardon to every confederate soldier after the civil war. There are a few other examples. So, while technically yes, accepting a pardon is an admission of guilt, they're never going to get convicted of anything in the first place, so it's a moot point. The president can pardon anyone for any reason, he doesn't have to name a specific crime, or even a specific person. In theory the president could pardon everyone in the entire country for every federal crime. Yes I agree, my only point was it doesn't exonerate them from future crimes (they probably think it does) and it doesn't exonerate them from state versions of federal crimes, so they can still get screwed (though they probably won't). And others pardoning you is different than you pardoning yourself, I would think, but perhaps not (as you explained). I'm just saying, being pardoned isn't per se a good look even if you pull it off. But most won't know or care, but that's the case with most things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 Read this thread to make your blood boil. Republicans are sick people to support a man as venal and despicable as Trump. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silentbob Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 I didn’t know until today that Betsy DeVos is also Erik Prince’s brother. So much fuckery is going on and the safety guards have all but been fired/let go/don’t have the balls to say No to Trump Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 I’m so angry right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 All of our recent presidents are war criminals but the GOP is explicitly pro-war-criminal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted December 23, 2020 Share Posted December 23, 2020 We have more than earned an eternal jihad to be waged against us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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