Greatoneshere Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Anathema- said: That doesn’t change anything I said. Nobody’s accusing him of being racist, just a woefully unhelpful potential ally. Chaining himself to black women doesn’t amount to much when you’ve been a national lawmaker as long as he has. To say nothing of the fact that he dismisses activists if they don’t agree with him. The issues facing black America don’t get to be dictated by Bernie Sanders regardless of how much he’s like to. He did that long ago in Chicago, not recently. There's numerous stories about what he's done for civil rights in this country (Shaun King has spoken about them at length). He's already proven himself based on his past to be a very helpful ally. I don't think he's ever tried dictating anything, just given his opinions. But his policy positions and his voting record and his stories of activism all add up to show that he's been a helpful ally many, many times throughout his life but you would characterize him as a "woefully unhelpful potential ally"? He's already helped, thus disproving that (IMHO). Again, he doesn't always say the right thing, but that's small potatoes compared to the evidence that shows he's done plenty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 lol shaun king Look .. Bernie is trying to skate by on things that lack substance and has proven that he just doesn’t pay much attention to the real issues facing the black community, more clearly demonstrated in his comments over the policing of drug crimes, that he hasn’t really earned the benefit of the doubt. Not incidentally this is largely because Bernie ‘s preferred method of adversarial politics is to refuse the benefit of the doubt to anyone else. Bernie has proven time and again that if the issue is outside his wheelhouse he not only knows fuck-all about it he thinks the issue lacks any real importance. He’s been a legislator for a long time. Whatever is there is what his record is, no amount of anecdotes will change that and frankly smacks of tokenism. What record he does have is being deeply dismissive of the issues black and minority advocates bring to him. He’s done nothing to earn the benefit of the doubt and won’t give it to anyone else. “Shaun King had a list,” is almost laughable enough to itself be evidence of a total dearth of examples. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 dat purity testing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Sherrod Brown is out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaladinSolo Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Good, his seat is too important, im also thinking the field won't be as large as the gop's last time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Anathema- said: lol shaun king Look .. Bernie is trying to skate by on things that lack substance and has proven that he just doesn’t pay much attention to the real issues facing the black community, more clearly demonstrated in his comments over the policing of drug crimes, that he hasn’t really earned the benefit of the doubt. Not incidentally this is largely because Bernie ‘s preferred method of adversarial politics is to refuse the benefit of the doubt to anyone else. Bernie has proven time and again that if the issue is outside his wheelhouse he not only knows fuck-all about it he thinks the issue lacks any real importance. He’s been a legislator for a long time. Whatever is there is what his record is, no amount of anecdotes will change that and frankly smacks of tokenism. What record he does have is being deeply dismissive of the issues black and minority advocates bring to him. He’s done nothing to earn the benefit of the doubt and won’t give it to anyone else. “Shaun King had a list,” is almost laughable enough to itself be evidence of a total dearth of examples. Well, I'm totally open to hearing that out, but what are you specifically thinking of that makes you think Bernie doesn't care about black issues or womens' issues in America? Like, that he actively doesn't care about those? He's spoken at length in the past about both, as I recall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, Jason said: dat purity testing Thespark.com had the best ones, RIP in peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 People attacking Biden for anti-black stuff make me lol. In focus group after focus group he is seen as a continuation of Obama and is very popular in the black voting community. Attacks like that don't work against Biden (or Clinton). Any outrage is from white people who are acting outraged on behalf of black people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilentWorld Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 8 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: People attacking Biden for anti-black stuff make me lol. In focus group after focus group he is seen as a continuation of Obama and is very popular in the black voting community. Attacks like that don't work against Biden (or Clinton). Any outrage is from white people who are acting outraged on behalf of black people. However he is too old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 hour ago, SilentWorld said: However he is too old. Yeah I'm not saying that he is the best candidate (although obviously he is better than Trump, if it came to that!), but attacking him on issues he is clearly strong on (anything that Obama was strong on, basically) is a bad plan. Honestly, his age is probably the best thing to go after him on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: Yeah I'm not saying that he is the best candidate (although obviously he is better than Trump, if it came to that!), but attacking him on issues he is clearly strong on (anything that Obama was strong on, basically) is a bad plan. Honestly, his age is probably the best thing to go after him on. Or his economic ideas which are genuinely out-of-step with the party Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: Or his economic ideas which are genuinely out-of-step with the party This is my biggest concern with Biden. And it was Obama's biggest problem too. We really don't need another corporate Democrat. I mean, I'll take it over Trump/Republican Party of course, but we really don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastlevaniaNut18 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 5 hours ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said: In the postwar era, you have LBJ, Carter, Reagan, Clinton and both Bushes who were former governors—so six out of the 13 presidents. Only 2 senators have made it—Obama and Kennedy. 5 hours ago, SFLUFAN said: George H. W. Bush was never a governor. LBJ was never a governor, either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 6 minutes ago, CastlevaniaNut18 said: LBJ was never a governor, either. Your grandmother called him 'the governor'. RIM SHOT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastlevaniaNut18 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Erm... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 hours ago, CitizenVectron said: People attacking Biden for anti-black stuff make me lol. In focus group after focus group he is seen as a continuation of Obama and is very popular in the black voting community. Attacks like that don't work against Biden (or Clinton). Any outrage is from white people who are acting outraged on behalf of black people. The bolded is very true... Black folks call Biden "Uncle Joe" for a reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stepee Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chris- said: Your grandmother called him 'the governor'. RIM SHOT I was going to go with that his dick was bigger than some states, and he governed over that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 5 minutes ago, Chris- said: Your grandmother called him 'the governor'. RIM SHOT 1/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris- Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 1 minute ago, stepee said: I was going to go with that his dick was bigger than some states, and he governed over that. There's a reason Mammy CNut called him 'Big Tex' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CastlevaniaNut18 Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Y'all are weird. I was just surprised those two knowledgeable fellows let that mistake slip by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Howard "Person of Means" Schultz is recruiting GOP insiders Former Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz has recruited at least three veteran House Republican staffers and consultants to join his presidential campaign-in-waiting, bringing on seasoned and well-connected GOP operatives who know their way around the very political apparatus helping to reelect President Trump in 2020. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 17 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: Howard "Person of Means" Schultz is recruiting GOP insiders Former Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz has recruited at least three veteran House Republican staffers and consultants to join his presidential campaign-in-waiting, bringing on seasoned and well-connected GOP operatives who know their way around the very political apparatus helping to reelect President Trump in 2020. Good way to get those Democrats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 4 hours ago, Greatoneshere said: Well, I'm totally open to hearing that out, but what are you specifically thinking of that makes you think Bernie doesn't care about black issues or womens' issues in America? Like, that he actively doesn't care about those? He's spoken at length in the past about both, as I recall. I haven't seen him speak on subjects of race or gender disparities to any real degree of satisfaction. He'll always twist the subject back to being one of simple economics while ignoring how history has played that out. He wants to pretend that addressing economic issues will be all that's needed to help blacks and other minorities or women. There is no sign that he understands how previous legislation that aimed to improve conditions of Americans had specific carve-outs keeping minorities and women from taking advantage; no recognition of how discretionary policies have allowed and will continue to allow blacks to be discriminated against in ways that significantly harms their lifetime earning potential; no nuance to his policies that illustrate he understands how much more significantly deeper the wealth gap is when adjusted for race. This isn't even my speculation, this is his standard interview tack. When he's given a question he has no good answer for he tries to pivot and pretend that all issues are economic and thus easy to fix. It doesn't help when he specifically says radical solutions are needed for a whole host of things but not when it comes to blacks, women, and guns. He has documented history of tokenizing the few black people he does hire; again seeking credit but dismissing the input that comes with the diversity. To say nothing about the charges of sexism in his campaign that he hasn't really addressed. He even said that abortion care was a special interest! Like, in Bernie-land you can't get much sharper in your criticism of something. We know he actively doesn't care about these issues because that's what he's shown us, time and again. He's been given many opportunities to discuss real nuance with some tough issues, instead compartmentalizing and dismissing issues that aren't his pet as unimportant. Everything from abortion to guns. In fact his stance on all the issues Democratic primary voters care about mark him as one of the most centrist candidates in the race. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Quote In fact his stance on all the issues Democratic primary voters care about mark him as one of the most centrist candidates in the race . Well that's not the take I expected when I got up today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firewithin Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 2 hours ago, SFLUFAN said: Howard "Person of Means" Schultz is recruiting GOP insiders Former Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz has recruited at least three veteran House Republican staffers and consultants to join his presidential campaign-in-waiting, bringing on seasoned and well-connected GOP operatives who know their way around the very political apparatus helping to reelect President Trump in 2020. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 2 hours ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Well that's not the take I expected when I got up today Gun rights, reproductive justice, criminal justice, and the black lives matter movement are all key in a Democratic primary that he's either vulnerable on or actively to the right of the other declareds and he's not notably to the left when it comes to economic justice (especially as we see him consistently deny reparations) or expanding access to medical care. How else would you describe that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Not to veer too far off course but reparations are a thing again? How would that even look these days? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 13 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Not to veer too far off course but reparations are a thing again? How would that even look these days? Reparations have surfaced in recent weeks as a discussion point among the Democratic candidates. As for the "how", I guess the most logical mechanism would be tax credits or tax rebates. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 I can't see any of that, which would need to be race based in order for it to be actual justice (for 250 years of slavery, 100 years of Jim Crow, and 50 years of sheer indifference from the government) to pass any sort of constitutional muster given that the current court overturned the goddamn voting rights act cause racism is dead or some shit like that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 booker is going to have a staffer pull the fire alarm during a press conference Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 41 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: I can't see any of that, which would need to be race based in order for it to be actual justice (for 250 years of slavery, 100 years of Jim Crow, and 50 years of sheer indifference from the government) to pass any sort of constitutional muster given that the current court overturned the goddamn voting rights act cause racism is dead or some shit like that Hey - I didn't say it stood a snowball's chance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 Eric Holder and Senator Merkley opt out of running Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 Joe Biden in the final stages of preparing for a 2020 presidential bid Quote A formal kickoff is expected by mid-April and would all but cement the size and scope of the Democratic presidential field that currently stands at 12 formally declared candidates, two still in the formal exploratory stage and others still mulling a bid but waiting to see what the former veep might do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jwheel86 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 I'm curious if anyone is going to adopt Medicare Extra for All as their alternative to Bernie's Medicare for All. It's got some stuff I like (Federal Long Term Care Services with no waitlists, income, or asset limit, FUCK YES), but the funding mechanism is ACA style complicated (income based premiums, deductibles, and copays) and let's employers keep employer based insurance (compared to M4A which is completely funded by taxes). The 8 year implementation period is also a huge issue with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
osxmatt Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Am I missing something, or is Joe Biden not an interesting, or particularly "good" candidate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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