RedSoxFan9 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 16 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said: I love it when people reduce what is essentially a state sponsored marketing effort into "Russian Instagram accounts" like these things don't make a difference to low information voters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: I love it when people reduce what is essentially a state sponsored marketing effort into "Russian Instagram accounts" like these things don't make a difference to low information voters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Do you not understand what a low information voter is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 hour ago, RedSoxFan9 said: It's not about persuading them to not like her (they already didn't), it's about persuading them not to vote for her. Usually when your primary candidate loses you still vote for the party nominee because they are closer to your views than the other party's candidate. But if a few % can be convinced not to...then some states can be swung. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Do you not understand what a low information voter is? Apparently he's a bit low information to what Russia did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: It's not about persuading them to not like her (they already didn't), it's about persuading them not to vote for her. Usually when your primary candidate loses you still vote for the party nominee because they are closer to your views than the other party's candidate. But if a few % can be convinced not to...then some states can be swung. I understand the (bullshit) liberal narrative surrounding the Russian Facebook ads but it’s nothing more than a scapegoat for Clinton’s embarrassing loss to the one of the dumbest candidates in US history. Also, 15% of Clinton supporters voted for McCain and 12% of Sanders supporters voted for Trump. Maybe we should be talking about 2008 Facebook ads https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/09/clinton-sanders-primary-new-book Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Just now, SaysWho? said: Apparently he's a bit low information to what Russia did. haha lol! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 minute ago, RedSoxFan9 said: I understand the (bullshit) liberal narrative surrounding the Russian Facebook ads but it’s nothing more than a scapegoat for Clinton’s embarrassing loss to the one of the dumbest candidates in US history. Also, 15% of Clinton supporters voted for McCain and 12% of Sanders supporters voted for Trump. Maybe we should be talking about 2008 Facebook ads https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/09/clinton-sanders-primary-new-book Example of low information. You can't automatically assume 2008's Hillary primary base is the same as 2016's. She won West Virginia easily in the 2008 primaries. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kal-El814 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Is that you ohioguy? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Just now, SaysWho? said: Example of low information. You can't automatically assume 2008's Hillary primary base is the same as 2016's. She won West Virginia easily in the 2008 primaries. Absolute zinger. You are so smart Mr Horse race politics Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 Just now, RedSoxFan9 said: Absolute zinger. You are so smart Mr Horse race politics Indeed I am, but it's not a zinger. What 2008 Hillary voters did is irrelevant since it's not the same base. Hillary won a bunch of deep south states in 2016. Obama easily carried them in 2008. Obama won in the upper midwest like Wisconsin but lost Michigan, whereas Hillary lost Michigan in 2016. She still carried Ohio and Pennsylvania but with a different composition of voters. "Hillary voters in 2008 didn't vote Obama!" Cool, but where's the info that it's the same people? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 have liberals found a single person who claims the Russian ads changed his or her voting decision? that's a better place to start than claiming that ads that look like dasharez0ne posts led to Trump's victory Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 21 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said: I understand the (bullshit) liberal narrative surrounding the Russian Facebook ads but it’s nothing more than a scapegoat for Clinton’s embarrassing loss to the one of the dumbest candidates in US history. Also, 15% of Clinton supporters voted for McCain and 12% of Sanders supporters voted for Trump. Maybe we should be talking about 2008 Facebook ads https://www.jacobinmag.com/2017/09/clinton-sanders-primary-new-book I don't understand what's so hard to understand the fact that it's possible for both "Hillary was a terrible candidate" and "Russia juiced the election" to be true. I mean, Hillary being a shitty candidate is why the Russians were able to succeed, most likely. A better candidate would not have been so vulnerable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 2 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said: have liberals found a single person who claims the Russian ads changed his or her voting decision? that's a better place to start than claiming that ads that look like dasharez0ne posts led to Trump's victory I know it's hard, but since you bring up 2008 Hillary voters a lot, perhaps it's best if you can find out how similar 2008 Hillary voters are to 2016 Hillary ones and which ones voted McCain in 2008 and how they voted in 2016. It'd help bolster your case instead of going for dem one-liners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 what's the difference between these and Russian ads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 8 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said: have liberals found a single person who claims the Russian ads changed his or her voting decision? that's a better place to start than claiming that ads that look like dasharez0ne posts led to Trump's victory Changing the Overton Window is a cultural effect, not a specific one, so any single person claiming that Russian voting affected their personal, specific decision is an asinine pursuit. It's called marketing, advertising, and propoganda. For low information voters, just being ceaselessly bombarded by bullshit does make you start wanting to vote for the bullshit which is why such ads are insidious. Plus Hillary being a terrible candidate and Russia influenced the election can both be true at the same time, to different degrees of course. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Just now, RedSoxFan9 said: what's the difference between these and Russian ads? You mean other than their content? And thus the effect it would have on a person? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 minute ago, SaysWho? said: I know it's hard, but since you bring up 2008 Hillary voters a lot, perhaps it's best if you can find out how similar 2008 Hillary voters are to 2016 Hillary ones and which ones voted McCain in 2008 and how they voted in 2016. It'd help bolster your case instead of going for dem one-liners. so liberals haven't found one yet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 Just now, RedSoxFan9 said: so liberals haven't found one yet Where's the evidence that Hillary 2008 voters who voted for McCain in 2008 also voted Hillary in 2016? Might be hard if you can't find the answer on Twitter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 c'mon guys there are probably dozens of people who were genuinely swayed by the Russian ads. I have faith you can find one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 minute ago, SaysWho? said: Where's the evidence that Hillary 2008 voters who voted for McCain in 2008 also voted Hillary in 2016? Might be hard if you can't find the answer on Twitter. you are really hung up on that comment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 minute ago, RedSoxFan9 said: you are really hung up on that comment You make it a lot, but you seem to be, again, a very low-information voter about the whole deal. It shouldn't be that hard to prove it, especially since you're demanding people find someone who remembers specific Russian ads from two years ago and remembers that it was the moment they were hardened to not vote. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Just now, SaysWho? said: You make it a lot, but you seem to be, again, a very low-information voter about the whole deal. It shouldn't be that hard to prove it, especially since you're demanding people find someone who remembers specific Russian ads from two years ago and remembers that it was the moment they were hardened to not vote. whoa you're spitting hot fire today Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 You won't find a single person who says they bought x product because of the ads for said product (unless it's the exceptionally rare case where the ad is explosively popular) but the ads do shape a person's perception of brand x. Same thing applies to political candidates. It is literally the same thing as the NRA, MoveOn, Chamber of Commerce running ads, only with a foreign adversary who not just wants one side to win, but wants to sew chaos and disorder, and Who are no stranger to using race to meddle the only difference is the trump administration (at the highest levels at least) seems beholden to Russia and Republicans in general don't give a fuck because they got support from them, and winning is all that matters Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 minute ago, RedSoxFan9 said: whoa you're spitting hot fire today So you don't know what you're talking about. Shocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 1 minute ago, SaysWho? said: So you don't know what you're talking about. Shocking. got my ass also, it doesn't matter if the 2008 Hillary supporters are the same or different from the 2016 Hillary supporters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 7 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said: whoa you're spitting hot fire today I'm not sure what use you provide here if all you're ever going to be is a contrarian to the rest of us rather than an honest debater. Why not work with us to heighten the discussion rather than dismantle it by playing false equivalency games? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Kind of hard to have an honest discussion with people who start with the assumption that Russians crappy ads had a meaningful impact on the election Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said: Kind of hard to have an honest discussion with people who start with the assumption that Russians crappy ads had a meaningful impact on the election No, the information we have over the years from hacking to misinformation signals it very well likely had an impact (the election was close and decided by a few thousand votes). That's different than starting with the assumption that it couldn't have had any impact because it affects your point-of-view. 7 minutes ago, RedSoxFan9 said: got my ass also, it doesn't matter if the 2008 Hillary supporters are the same or different from the 2016 Hillary supporters. lol wrong but okay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 @SaysWho? Keep the new title and let him have this cesspool, and just use the new one. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 How about you post the evidence so my low information voter brain can see it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 3 minutes ago, Jason said: @SaysWho? Keep the new title and let him have this cesspool, and just use the new one. Ha! This thread's already got all the info, though. Make a new thread about relitigating and put the posts in there. Or make it, "guy from Make Love Not Warcraft masturbates about his posts," and leave redsox in there. tbh, it's hard not to talk about the 2016 completely since the ongoing investigations have a lot of ties into Russians working with Trump in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedSoxFan9 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, SaysWho? said: This thread's already got all the info, though. Make a new thread about relitigating and put the posts in there. Or make it, "guy from Make Love Not Warcraft masturbates about his posts," and leave redsox in there. You’ve posted pictures of yourself wearing a suit with shoulder pads and doing hover hands. Maybe you shouldn’t post things like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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