CitizenVectron Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Theoretically there's some middle-manager in Wisconsin who's never run for public office that would make a better President than any who have ever attained the position. But it takes an entirely different skillset to win an election vs governing. The same is true of winning a primary vs winning a general election, through of course those two are quite close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Signifyin(g)Monkey Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, SaysWho? said: I understand and I respect your opinion. And believe me, I'm not just saying it to save face: I want to be wrong so bad if nothing else than the census and the Supreme Court. Like I want to be here on election night, and I want to quote my own March posts here talking about the problems with Biden and go, "Haha, this nitwitted shitforbrains's post didn't age well what a loser," and then I want @SFLUFAN to change my name to HerpyMcDerpington and never change it back as the final name change I don't think it has to be one or the other: there is ample reason to believe Biden is a very problematic candidate, and that Trump's going to run rings around him; however, you can't blame anyone for doubting Bernie now when his coalition didn't show up on Super Tuesday in enough numbers to beat said highly problematic candidate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted March 10, 2020 Author Share Posted March 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said: I don't think it has to be one or the other: there is ample reason to believe Biden is a very problematic candidate, and that Trump's going to run rings around him; however, you can't blame anyone for doubting Bernie now when his coalition didn't show up on Super Tuesday in enough numbers to beat said highly problematic candidate. It doesn't have to be, but I think it is, and the problems I see run deeper than one primary. I highlighted all the reasons already so need to go down that well for now, but that's why I think he's problematic and Bernie is better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 I still wonder how much of an effect you have from east coast results being called while the west coast still has hours of voting left. Especially this year with stuff like the long lines in Los Angeles County. I don't see how it doesn't result in people getting discouraged and going home if you're standing in a multi-hour line planning to vote for one candidate and your phone starts blowing up with news alerts about the other candidate trouncing your guy on the east coast. Maybe not enough to swing things by 10% points but I can't imagine it's 0 either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneticBlueprint Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Signifyin(g)Monkey said: I don't think it has to be one or the other: there is ample reason to believe Biden is a very problematic candidate, and that Trump's going to run rings around him; however, you can't blame anyone for doubting Bernie now when his coalition didn't show up on Super Tuesday in enough numbers to beat said highly problematic candidate. Why are you yelling? But I do agree about the disappointing turnout for Bernie on Super Tuesday. I mean the youth voter turnout, which his campaign always touts, was a joke and very much correlated with that research that @Massdriver posted a while ago. 4 minutes ago, Jason said: I still wonder how much of an effect you have from east coast results being called while the west coast still has hours of voting left. Especially this year with stuff like the long lines in Los Angeles County. I don't see how it doesn't result in people getting discouraged and going home if you're standing in a multi-hour line planning to vote for one candidate and your phone starts blowing up with news alerts about the other candidate trouncing your guy on the east coast. But also this. And this thread: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 8 minutes ago, Jason said: I still wonder how much of an effect you have from east coast results being called while the west coast still has hours of voting left. Especially this year with stuff like the long lines in Los Angeles County. I don't see how it doesn't result in people getting discouraged and going home if you're standing in a multi-hour line planning to vote for one candidate and your phone starts blowing up with news alerts about the other candidate trouncing your guy on the east coast. Maybe not enough to swing things by 10% points but I can't imagine it's 0 either. It’s obviously difficult to quantify. My gut feeling is that significantly more votes are depressed by the fact that 40ish states have their outcomes pretty much locked in by the time Election Day rolls around leading to a general feeling of “what’s the point?” for people on both sides. So I would assume those who do make the decision to vote in a state like California are probably doing so out of a feeling of civic duty, which may keep them in line even when things aren’t going their candidates way as returns roll in out east. Interesting question to ponder though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 I mostly meant got primaries, to be clear. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firewithin Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anathema- Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 She never called him racist. Bros are super upset that nobody likes their daddy. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 19 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: I mean that's true, but Elizabeth Warren also lost (by more!) and is a Democrat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted March 10, 2020 Share Posted March 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: I mean that's true, but Elizabeth Warren also lost (by more!) and is a Democrat. Her candidacy was and is performative Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted March 10, 2020 Author Share Posted March 10, 2020 5 hours ago, GeneticBlueprint said: Now listen here you mcguffin lovin bucket scrub My favorite part about this: people who go, "I hate that Bernie yells so much!" being mum or really enjoying this video or the number of other ones where Biden yells a lot. Bottom tweet made me optimistic, though: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricofoley Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 It looks like in states tonight turnout among young people is again actually down from 2016. Just a bummer, I don't really know what else to say about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Best to stay in and get some sort of concessions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Sanders is going to get tuned up bad tonight and still stay in the race Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Sanders is going to get tuned up bad tonight and still stay in the race Why have a convention, just give it to Joe now and hide him until November. He should stay in. Any leverage Sanders would have to get something like progressive changes in the party platform (ultimately meaningless but it's a thing) or even impress the need for a progressive VP "for party unity". All of that is gone if he drops Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Why have a convention, just give it to Joe now and hide him until November. He should stay in. Any leverage Sanders would have to get something like progressive changes in the party platform (ultimately meaningless but it's a thing) or even impress the need for a progressive VP "for party unity". All of that is gone if he drops None of it is happening now that it’s clear Sanders did as well as he did in 2016 because HRC was so disliked. Nobody is going to try to appease him and his core supporters. The DNC will only grow more tired of him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 7 minutes ago, sblfilms said: None of it is happening now that it’s clear Sanders did as well as he did in 2016 because HRC was so disliked. Nobody is going to try to appease him and his core supporters. The DNC will only grow more tired of him. Well, you know, good luck with that. It's pretty obvious that unity is a one way street and this is the only chance and way to push for change. "10 more years" will never come. But it's a great idea for the party to keep fighting against popular, majority winning issues. But hey, it's not like we have any major structural issues that the party is willing to take on head first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 9 minutes ago, sblfilms said: Nobody is going to try to appease him and his core supporters. Telling Sanders supporters to shut up and behave worked sooo well in 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: Well, you know, good luck with that. It's pretty obvious that unity is a one way street and this is the only chance and way to push for change. "10 more years" will never come. But hey, it's not like we have any major structural issues that the party is willing to take on head first. 1 minute ago, Jason said: Telling Sanders supporters to shut up and behave worked sooo well in 2016. Sanders dragged it out to the convention in 2016, the Dems bowed to his policy pushes, even organized the unity commission so he could get rules more favorable to him for 2020. What did it get the Dems? Nothing. But Sanders isn’t going to get to hold the party that he doesn’t even belong to hostage this time. The Dems are going to start collectively pivoting to the general tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Party unity would be Sanders immediately pulling out of the race and endorsing Biden and working as hard as he can to convince his supporters that this is not an election that they can sit out. The party platform is pretty damn meaningless, but Sanders allowing Biden to start campaigning against Trump right now isn't. If Sanders stays in it assuming he has a bad night, then I have lost all respect for the man. As for Biden, I do agree that he needs to be more unifying and open towards social democratic wing of the party. How he should do that is up for debate. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 8 minutes ago, Jason said: Telling Sanders supporters to shut up and behave worked sooo well in 2016. Well, it's clear from these results, they do not bother to vote. So who gives a shit? 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Like after a loss like this, if you care at all about any progressive policy other than get rid of Trump, you keep fighting the fights you can until all the votes are cast and do something other than just roll over dead. That said, if Sanders drops out, I wouldn't blame him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 I kind of think he will. This is bordering on pathetic now. But telling him to drop out for the good of the party is the biggest crock of shit I have ever heard in my life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 On the issues Biden is a loser but that's not why people are voting for him, full stop. The progressive ideas are popular but beating Trump is far more important in voters eyes, so that's explains the success of Biden. It's not because of his healthcare plans but in spite of them. It's not because of his opposition to legal marijuana but in spite of it. Etc etc etc I could go on forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jose said: Well, it's clear from these results, they do not bother to vote. So who gives a shit? Pretty sure that's the lesson the DNC is taking from this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Just now, b_m_b_m_b_m said: On the issues Biden is a loser but that's not why people are voting for him, full stop. The progressive ideas are popular but beating Trump is far more important in voters eyes, so that's explains the success of Biden. It's not because of his healthcare plans but in spite of them. I mostly agree, except I would argue that Sanders has a lot more policies than just single payer. I'm on board with single payer, but when you start bullet pointing the rest of his agenda and how he would tax the country, rent control, etc., I get off the boat real fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 1 minute ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: On the issues Biden is a loser but that's not why people are voting for him, full stop. The progressive ideas are popular but beating Trump is far more important in voters eyes, so that's explains the success of Biden. It's not because of his healthcare plans but in spite of them. It's not because of his opposition to legal marijuana but in spite of it. Etc etc etc I could go on forever. So the progressives should use their influence to push him to the left... the have leverage if they demonstrate that they actually care about the issues by you know, voting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 This discussion may soon be moot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 And this is what Obama meant when he said posting on Twitter is not activism... you have to VOTE. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skillzdadirecta Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 Just now, SFLUFAN said: This discussion may soon be moot I texted twice buddies and said that he would be out by the end of the week. He's 80 years old and had a heart attack. No need to drag this out... his supporters let him down big time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 2 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said: And this is what Obama meant when he said posting on Twitter is not activism... you have to VOTE. This is why politicians have to form a coalition that includes a lot of middle aged and older people. Young people don't vote. Hedging one's campaign on them is a risky bet. Sanders has done an amazing job both times he ran for president considering what he ran on and who his supporters are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted March 11, 2020 Share Posted March 11, 2020 11 minutes ago, sblfilms said: But Sanders isn’t going to get to hold the party that he doesn’t even belong to hostage this time. I would buy "he doesn't even belong to the party" a lot more if they hadn't just bent over backward to let in the former Republican who was still bankrolling Republican reelection campaigns as recently as 2018. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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