Joe Biden beats Donald Trump, officially making Trump a one-term twice impeached, twice popular-vote losing president

[Jason]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/joe-biden-admits-he-was-not-arrested-while-trying-to-visit-nelson-mandela-in-south-africa

[skillzdadirecta]

1 minute ago, Jason said:

v

Bernie has definitely talked the talk AND walked the walk for the most part. Nobody can question that or take it away from him.

[Joe]

4 minutes ago, Jason said:

v

 

Your V is showing

[ort]

They don't vote for policy positions because the news doesn't talk about policy. They treat politics like a he said/she said reality show.

 

People follow politics like they follow sports. It's not about what is best for everyone, it's about winning this weeks bullshit circus.

[skillzdadirecta]

6 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

I mean come on how many elections do we need to go through before we accept that voters, by and large, don't pick candidates for their policy prescriptions? Sometimes a policy can be made into a point about character but that's always what it's about. White rural voters are seduced by racism but Biden is proving that they can be attracted to something else. Bernie wants to say that his campaign best reaches these voters but so far he's been wrong; a slate of policies isn't getting them to vote for him, especially because all those wonky voters went Warren 

 

While I'm here you also need to understand that the black constituency runs the full gamut of political opinions in this country that are still reliable Democratic party voters. What it means to be a Democrat is something different than what it means to be a Democrat for a white person. THAT is the conservative voice in the party, not the leaders who know they have to reach out and compromise with this faction to win. The Sanders wing wants to pass policy without regard to race and those voters haven't forgotten how that rhetoric hasn't amounted to anything; the policies somehow still exclude them if they aren't expressly included.

 

Sanders wants to get a pass on doing the work by promising not to be racist but he ignores how the black electorate views promises without action. He wants their votes without understanding that they're also not all on board with a lot of his agenda. He doesn't understand them. He doesn't understand what motivates white rurals or suburban moms.  His play was leftist majoritarian and maybe if the youth turned out it would have worked. But they didn't. And it's not. Or maybe it will in the next few months in a way it never has before. We'll see.

 

To your point  "The Root's Every Democratic Candidate's Black Agenda RANKED". I found the results of this interesting especially since the author of this article does NOT like Buttigieg at ALL but gave him credit for his Douglass plan for Black America. Worth a read by those interested in seeing the discussions going on in barber shops around the country 

 

Crazy that this thing isn't a week old and the campaign is down to what, THREE people 

[skillzdadirecta]

3 minutes ago, ort said:

They don't vote for policy positions because the news doesn't talk about policy. They treat politics like a he said/she said reality show.

 

People follow politics like they follow sports. It's not about what is best for everyone, it's about winning this weeks bullshit circus.

That's a cop out... there's more information out there than ever before about a particular candidate's policy positions and what not. A significant portion of today's electorate just doesn't give a shit.  These ignoramuses just tend to be the loudest voices in the room.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

That's a cop out... there's more information out there than ever before about a particular candidate's policy positions and what not. A significant portion of today's electorate just doesn't give a shit.  These ignoramuses just tend to be the loudest voices in the room.

There has literally never been a time where it easier to find out the policy positions of a candidate, their voting record on any given issue, their financial supporters, etc.

 

If people aren’t voting based on policy, it’s not because they can’t find out, they just don’t want to.

[Jason]

20 minutes ago, Jose said:

 

Your V is showing

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

Every single state that's voted thus far has majority support for Sanders key issues (esp of Medicare for all and other issues as well), and that he isn't winning means there is more than just a single policy or policies that is determining the votes of the democratic electorate.

 

The single biggest issue is beating Donald Trump. Voters think for some fucking reason this early dementia case is the best chance to do so, so *shrug*

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

The Democratic electorate largely is not voting for Bidens policies, they're voting for his supposed electibility

[Kal-El814]

5 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

There has literally never been a time where it easier to find out the policy positions of a candidate, their voting record on any given issue, their financial supporters, etc.

 

If people aren’t voting based on policy, it’s not because they can’t find out, they just don’t want to.

I mean this is true, but it ignores human nature to some extent. Media coverage overwhelmingly treats politics as team deathmatch and I always find it challenging to blame people when they take what allegedly informed people in a position of power say. It also doesn’t help when our president is out there attacking truth and journalism. 

It reminds me a lot of when I was applying for my first mortgage in early 2008 and multiple lenders were pushing loan terms on me that I was reasonably sure I couldn’t afford by my own math. I was told by multiple lenders that shorter, variable rate mortgages were the way to go because rates would only go down, missing payments wouldn’t affect my credit score, shit that is objectively untrue (and probably illegal?).
 

I know this is likely coming off as me defending willful ignorance, which isn’t my intent and I’m loathe to do... but it’s a razor blade worth trying to dance on for a little while at least, I think. 

[osxmatt]

3 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

The Democratic electorate largely is not voting for Bidens policies, they're voting for his supposed electibility

 

This primary can best be summed up as "voting based on the person in the booth next to you."

[skillzdadirecta]

Bernie supporter on CNN just accused the Biden campaign of "virtue signaling" when asked why Bernie canceled his Jackson, Mississippi stop to go to Michigan  

[Commodore D]

42 minutes ago, Kal-El814 said:

I mean this is true, but it ignores human nature to some extent. Media coverage overwhelmingly treats politics as team deathmatch and I always find it challenging to blame people when they take what allegedly informed people in a position of power say. It also doesn’t help when our president is out there attacking truth and journalism. 

It reminds me a lot of when I was applying for my first mortgage in early 2008 and multiple lenders were pushing loan terms on me that I was reasonably sure I couldn’t afford by my own math. I was told by multiple lenders that shorter, variable rate mortgages were the way to go because rates would only go down, missing payments wouldn’t affect my credit score, shit that is objectively untrue (and probably illegal?).
 

I know this is likely coming off as me defending willful ignorance, which isn’t my intent and I’m loathe to do... but it’s a razor blade worth trying to dance on for a little while at least, I think. 

I get your point (trusting those people who should know the information) it’s totally valid, but......... rates only did go down. Just saying. 😛

[thewhyteboar]

Grampa fight!

[Comet]

Get real!

[Massdriver]

1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

The single biggest issue is beating Donald Trump. Voters think for some fucking reason this early dementia case is the best chance to do so, so *shrug*

You make it seem like voters are dumb if they don’t think that Bernie is going to march in and whip Trump. There have been reasonable arguments presented here by many as to why Biden arguably  has a better shot than Bernie, but they’re ignored. Quit pretending like all the evidence is so obvious that the self proclaimed socialist is going to win in the suburbs of Texas over a centrist when it is far from clear. It seems like you and others have an agenda that goes well beyond beating Donald Trump. The goal is to take over the Democratic Party, and if Trump wins, so be it because you can build on it into 2024. It’s not just about winning the election, it’s about winning the civil war in the Democratic Party. Some aren’t interested in the civil war this year, while others in the party disagree with the policies of Sanders. Biden gets votes because people want Biden. They’re not all low information voters and Bernie’s revolution is no where to be found in the data. The case is stronger than ever that he would lose.

[skillzdadirecta]

29 minutes ago, thewhyteboar said:

Grampa fight!

 

If South Park doesn't do a Grampa Fight episode next year Trey and Matt will have REALLY lost their touch.

[Anathema-]

1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Every single state that's voted thus far has majority support for Sanders key issues (esp of Medicare for all and other issues as well), and that he isn't winning means there is more than just a single policy or policies that is determining the votes of the democratic electorate.

 

Maybe they don't think that Bernie is the best candidate to enact those policies and that Biden can be pushed to accepting things more than he'd campaign on. 

[skillzdadirecta]

1 hour ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

The single biggest issue is beating Donald Trump. Voters think for some fucking reason this early dementia case is the best chance to do so, so *shrug*

There's a difference between folks diagnosing someone's mental capacity from the comfort of their couch vs another person who had an actual documented heart attack. Both choices leave openings for attack, but considering Donald has his OWN cognitive issues to contend with, one is on firmer ground from an actual factual standpoint to defend themselves... just sayin' 

[Massdriver]

My last post came across as too negative. Sorry about that. Despite everything I said, I believe that the Sanders/AOC movement has a big future. Within 10 years, I think it will be the Democratic Party.

 

Why  do I get roped into posting like that here? I'm going back to less serious observer mode. Carry on!

 

 

 

 

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

20 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

You make it seem like voters are dumb if they don’t think that Bernie is going to march in and whip Trump. There have been reasonable arguments presented here by many as to why Biden arguably  has a better shot than Bernie, but they’re ignored. Quit pretending like all the evidence is so obvious that the self proclaimed socialist is going to win in the suburbs of Texas over a centrist when it is far from clear. It seems like you and others have an agenda that goes well beyond beating Donald Trump. The goal is to take over the Democratic Party, and if Trump wins, so be it because you can build on it into 2024. It’s not just about winning the election, it’s about winning the civil war in the Democratic Party. Some aren’t interested in the civil war this year, while others in the party disagree with the policies of Sanders. Biden gets votes because people want Biden. They’re not all low information voters and Bernie’s revolution is no where to be found in the data. The case is stronger than ever that he would lose.

Voters are dumb. When was the last time you dealt with the general public lol

17 minutes ago, Anathema- said:

 

Maybe they don't think that Bernie is the best candidate to enact those policies and that Biden can be pushed to accepting things more than he'd campaign on. 

This I think is a fair point, but only time will tell. I think his predilection to continue to seek compromise with Republicans makes many uneasy about him.

15 minutes ago, skillzdadirecta said:

There's a difference between folks diagnosing someone's mental capacity from the comfort of their couch vs another person who had an actual documented heart attack. Both choices leave openings for attack, but considering Donald has his OWN cognitive issues to contend with, one is on firmer ground from an actual factual standpoint to defend themselves... just sayin' 

And Biden has had brain aneurysms in the past! These are old dudes. You can get a new heart but not a new brain. All the more important that the Veep pick is much younger.

 

Also calling republicans hypocrisy has never worked before, and it won't now.

[skillzdadirecta]

5 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Voters are dumb. When was the last time you dealt with the general public lol

This I think is a fair point, but only time will tell. I think his predilection to continue to seek compromise with Republicans makes many uneasy about him.

And Biden has had brain aneurysms in the past! These are old dudes. You can get a new heart but not a new brain. All the more important that the Veep pick is much younger.

 

Also calling republicans hypocrisy has never worked before, and it won't now.

Yeah my point was that both are vulnerable to attack for being old although I DO concede the point that while you can get a new heart,  you can't get a new brain.  Fair enough sir 

[Massdriver]

6 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said:

Voters are dumb. When was the last time you dealt with the general public lol

I deal with them fairly regularly. I guess they're dumb, but not for the reasons you said.

[b_m_b_m_b_m]

12 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

I deal with them fairly regularly. I guess they're dumb, but not for the reasons you said.

If it seems to be a matter of branding I suppose that is true, and is why I briefly flirted with the idea of supporting Liz, but she didn't prove herself left enough for my taste.

 

But after Bernie there is no left left in the democratic party, so him losing is a blow to the movement.

[Guest]

Also there is a difference between generic preference for public health insurance and specific preference for Sanders plan. The voting public often likes ideas when presented with a very generic option, but get more fractured in response when a particular bill is offered in that vein. I haven't seen any polls that deal with Sanders' M4A plan specifically. Not saying they don't exist, I just haven't seen them so I can't personally compare them to stuff like exit polling data from Super Tuesday about single payer government health insurance programs.

[Commissar SFLUFAN]

1 hour ago, Massdriver said:

It seems like you and others have an agenda that goes well beyond beating Donald Trump. The goal is to take over the Democratic Party, and if Trump wins, so be it because you can build on it into 2024. It’s not just about winning the election, it’s about winning the civil war in the Democratic Party. 

My desired agenda goes far beyond merely ejecting The Imbecile from the White House or winning a civil war within the fetid, ineffectual,  irrelevant, moribund, degenerate, zombified husk that is the Democratic Party.

[mclumber1]

30 minutes ago, sblfilms said:

Also there is a difference between generic preference for public health insurance and specific preference for Sanders plan. The voting public often likes ideas when presented with a very generic option, but get more fractured in response when a particular bill is offered in that vein. I haven't seen any polls that deal with Sanders' M4A plan specifically. Not saying they don't exist, I just haven't seen them so I can't personally compare them to stuff like exit polling data from Super Tuesday about single payer government health insurance programs.

 

 

"Should we go back to the moon?"

 

85% of respondents say "yes".

 

"Should we spend $100 billion over 10 years to go back to the moon?"

 

32% of respondents say "yes".  

[Joe]

As Bernie Sanders Pushed for Closer Ties, Soviet Union Spotted Opportunity https://nyti.ms/2uXEhlP

 

Damn, they are all out to get him now.

[Keyser_Soze]

 

[Jason]

2 minutes ago, Jose said:

As Bernie Sanders Pushed for Closer Ties, Soviet Union Spotted Opportunity https://nyti.ms/2uXEhlP

 

Damn, they are all out to get him now.

 

Really working hard to prove that Bernie's crazy for insisting that the media's stacked against him.

[thewhyteboar]

Just now, Jose said:

As Bernie Sanders Pushed for Closer Ties, Soviet Union Spotted Opportunity https://nyti.ms/2uXEhlP

 

Damn, they are all out to get him now.

I see that The New York Times still hasn't learned its lesson.

[thewhyteboar]

 

[Jason]

 

[thewhyteboar]