Anathema- Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, sblfilms said: At the most the national delegate difference In Iowa is +2 for Buttigieg. I’ll eat my shoe if 2 delegates is the difference. If it comes down to getting the Iowa count exactly right we're all turbo fucked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Anathema- said: Like, if you really want to game things out there's also something to be said for being gracious (especially when the details really don't matter; the IDP numbers are far past trustworthy even with a recanvass) -- something neither of these candidates are showing with this kind of focus. If coalition building is essential to winning a brokered convention then get ready to welcome your 2020 nominee Elizabeth Warren. It's gonna take Bernie, Yang, Warren, and gabbard delegates (maybe steyer) for the progressive 'lane' to get the nomination. If Liz has the plurality, then she'd be the nominee. Otherwise, and more likely, it will be Bernie, based on current polling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baconbits Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Who Will Win The 2020 Democratic Primary? I like how Sanders is the only one beating "no one" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 1 minute ago, baconbits said: Who Will Win The 2020 Democratic Primary? I like how Sanders is the only one beating "no one" He knows how to beat someone up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, b_m_b_m_b_m said: It's gonna take Bernie, Yang, Warren, and gabbard delegates (maybe steyer) for the progressive 'lane' to get the nomination. If Liz has the plurality, then she'd be the nominee. Otherwise, and more likely, it will be Bernie, based on current polling I’m not expecting Yang, Gabbard, or Steyer to pick up any pledged delegates. Maybe 10 or less between them. Warren certainly could be the king maker for Sanders if she keeps performing around the range that she seems to be polling. But I think the potential for the brokered convention talk to subside is fairly high before Super Tuesday because several campaigns bet big on these early states and it didn’t pay off. They will need major infusions of cash to stick around long enough to hold Sanders off of the chance at a majority of pledged delegates. It certainly is possible that the big money people in the DNC prop up Biden and Warren for the long haul to block Sanders. Who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 15 hours ago, Greatoneshere said: You're right, the tranquilizing drug of gradualism will save us from immediate, multiple, existential threats and crises. If he ends up being a terrible president, you can always vote another one in in 4 years and repeal whatever he did - we should at least give it a try. Whatever we've been doing for the last 20 years hasn't been working as it's led us to the systemic and institutional issues we suffer on multiple fronts today (moderate presidents with mostly minor/incremental changes to a stagnating, slowly corrupting kleptocracy). Like, let's at least try something different before saying it won't work. He's an authentic, honest actor (30-40 years of consistent political and social values) in a typically corrupt industry, if nothing else that should give you some solace. And given how long and successfully he's been in the industry as a politician, it's not like he's not at, bare minimum, capable of the job of president. I was just commenting on the difficulties that Bernie would face as the nominee against the general electorate. I'm not going to argue with you on my political views since I have expressed myself pretty clearly here on more the one occasion. Regardless of all that, if I cut the last sentence off of your response, that sounds like a pitch for Trump. Populism isn't my thing, but have at it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Massdriver said: I was just commenting on the difficulties that Bernie would face as the nominee against the general electorate. I'm not going to argue with you on my political views since I have expressed myself pretty clearly here on more the one occasion. In any case, if I cut the last sentence off, that sounds like a pitch for Trump. Populism isn't my thing, but have at it. Except Trump was clearly a fake populist, whereas Bernie is a genuine one, which makes all the difference. What you suggest is a false equivalency due to one superficial similarity. Trump weaponized populism, Bernie means it. But I understand not wanting to get into a whole thing, no worries. I just think your fear mongering of Bernie, and comparing him to Trump, strikes a false chord. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Just now, Greatoneshere said: Except Trump was clearly a fake populist, whereas Bernie is a genuine one, which makes all the difference. But I understand not wanting to get into a whole thing, no worries. I just think your fear mongering of Bernie, and comparing him to Trump, strikes a false chord. I don't want a populist of any kind. I'm the wrong audience for that argument. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: Except Trump was clearly a fake populist, whereas Bernie is a genuine one, which makes all the difference. What you suggest is a false equivalency due to one superficial similarity. Trump weaponized populism, Bernie means it. But I understand not wanting to get into a whole thing, no worries. I just think your fear mongering of Bernie, and comparing him to Trump, strikes a false chord. right wing populism is fascism, on the left, it's the welfare state. They're the same thing! Both sides! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 Just now, Massdriver said: I don't want a populist of any kind. I'm the wrong audience for that argument. Populism is just a label. It's not pandering if the policies help the most people in a system that is struggling to do so (is actually, at this point, anti-thetical to doing so). If you look at Bernie's record, he's actually mostly an excellent governmental manager. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted February 10, 2020 Author Share Posted February 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, Massdriver said: I was just commenting on the difficulties that Bernie would face as the nominee against the general electorate. I'm not going to argue with you on my political views since I have expressed myself pretty clearly here on more the one occasion. Regardless of all that, if I cut the last sentence off of your response, that sounds like a pitch for Trump. Yo yo yo, "He's an authentic, honest actor (30-40 years of consistent political and social values) in a typically corrupt industry, if nothing else that should give you some solace," is not a pitch for Trump. Trump has been inconsistent on social values and who he likes his entire life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 3 minutes ago, SaysWho? said: Yo yo yo, "He's an authentic, honest actor (30-40 years of consistent political and social values) in a typically corrupt industry, if nothing else that should give you some solace," is not a pitch for Trump. Trump has been inconsistent on social values and who he likes his entire life. Many people are selective about what they take away from posts unfortunately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 I have concluded there is no point in responding to any of that :P 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baconbits Posted February 10, 2020 Share Posted February 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, Greatoneshere said: ...Trump weaponized populism, Bernie means it. ... & this is why Bernie would destroy Trump. Trump is a fraud and Bernie's record allows him to expose that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, SaysWho? said: Yo yo yo, "He's an authentic, honest actor (30-40 years of consistent political and social values) in a typically corrupt industry, if nothing else that should give you some solace," is not a pitch for Trump. Trump has been inconsistent on social values and who he likes his entire life. It is when the values the person being attacked espouses are at odds with the electorate. So the question is how at odds are Sanders’ long held values? Hard to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CitizenVectron Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 12 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said: This is pure utter bullshit. Todd was reading a direct quote from this article: https://thebulwark.com/newsletter-issue/bernie-bros-and-the-internet-of-beefs/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baconbits Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 4 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: This is pure utter bullshit. Todd was reading a quote from this article: https://thebulwark.com/newsletter-issue/bernie-bros-and-the-internet-of-beefs/ ...he was repeating it as if he was agreeing with it or let least entertaining the idea that it has merit. Did you watch the full clip? Why the fuck are they even entertaining this nonsense as if it could be legitimate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Massdriver Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 10 minutes ago, baconbits said: ...he was repeating it as if he was agreeing with it or let least entertaining the idea that it has merit. Did you watch the full clip? Why the fuck are they even entertaining this nonsense as if it could be legitimate? MSNBC bottom right 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, CitizenVectron said: 57 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said: This is pure utter bullshit. Todd was reading a direct quote from this article: https://thebulwark.com/newsletter-issue/bernie-bros-and-the-internet-of-beefs/ Chuck Todd's recent realization that the government "might" be lying to the press made me want him fired. This . . . WTF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadatog Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Chuck Todd is just asking questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, sblfilms said: It is when the values the person being attacked espouses are at odds with the electorate. So the question is how at odds are Sanders’ long held values? Hard to say. I think the electorate has proved they don't know what they want. History has shown Bernie has been right on his values over the years, and all I care about is objectively, what has always made sense? Equality of opportunity (not equality of outcome) and equal parity between all peoples. I don't think what Bernie espouses is particularly difficult to understand and is quite universal, which is why he always has so many supporters. People forget, he was for gay rights in the 70's. People forget, he voted against the Iraq war. People forget, he was against Biden's crime bill. I mean, how much evidence do people need? It's the system trying to stop him, not the electorate, and that confuses the electorate. When you have insane Chris Matthews talking about "the Reds" potentially shooting the rich in Central Park, certain segments of the population have lost all perspective and that confuses people cause that's all their exposed too: stupid Chris Matthews, etc. This election is a fight for the soul of America, whether people want to accept the weight of that responsibility or not. So for me, it's not hard to say. His policies are insanely popular. In fact, if Warren had remained more progressive but was the "safe" Bernie alternative, she would be doing a lot better right about now. If, at the end of the day, the electorate doesn't choose Bernie, I'll live. What bothers me is the system preventing him from having a fair shot, as democracy dictates. You are one of the best posters on this board, but your belief that most people are honest actors belies an understanding that the system is built to destroy honesty and lifting the masses up (though I could be misunderstanding you, I similarly think that @Massdriver is too beholden to capitalism, which our system isn't currently, we are in hyper capitalism or "crony" capitalism and it's time to move on). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaysWho? Posted February 11, 2020 Author Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 hour ago, SFLUFAN said: This is pure utter bullshit. Todd was reading a direct quote from this article: https://thebulwark.com/newsletter-issue/bernie-bros-and-the-internet-of-beefs/ Full clip isn't any better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 I get his point, but man that is going to be used to hurt him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 The most generous interpretation of that is Todd presenting it as "an idea worth considering" which is still pretty bad. Except his lead-in about "we've all been on the receiving end of the Bernie bro mob" heavily implies he agrees with the statement. "He's just reading a quote" is really misrepresenting the bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commissar SFLUFAN Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 1 minute ago, Jose said: I get his point, but man that is going to be used to hurt him. He's gotten a free media market ride in the South while the other candidates have focused on IA and NH. That ends after tomorrow night. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remarkableriots Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Wish we could stop the in-fighting and just focus big picture on trump. I get that it’s a primary and this is the point, but I hate for all the dirty laundry to be aired now for Republicans to use in the general. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 I'd rather the dirty laundry be aired now than in the GE tbh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b_m_b_m_b_m Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Yeah best not to be prepared and have a pillow fight to Milwaukee Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadatog Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 I should of added the southpark clip to highlight my sarcasm. Here's a hot take, Chuck Todd has been shit since he started. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greatoneshere Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 2 hours ago, Jason said: The most generous interpretation of that is Todd presenting it as "an idea worth considering" which is still pretty bad. Except his lead-in about "we've all been on the receiving end of the Bernie bro mob" heavily implies he agrees with the statement. "He's just reading a quote" is really misrepresenting the bit. We're being incredibly generous. 45 minutes ago, Chadatog said: I should of added the southpark clip to highlight my sarcasm. Here's a hot take, Chuck Todd has been shit since he started. He's barely a journalist. I've been shadowing this board for awhile, and how low the standard has become is exactly what I was worried about. Chuck fucking Todd? This is where journalism is? @SFLUFAN needs to get the guillotine ready for these motherfuckers. Yeah, I said it. We're adults. Everybody forget that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chadatog Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 But we play video games...... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thewhyteboar Posted February 11, 2020 Share Posted February 11, 2020 Klobuchentum! Surguchar! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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