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Joe Biden beats Donald Trump, officially making Trump a one-term twice impeached, twice popular-vote losing president


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40 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

Well the dream was nice while it lasted (both America as a whole and Warren as a candidate):

 

Warren tanks and Buttigieg surges. Biden stays in lead.

 

 

And bad news for M4A and progressive politics as a whole:

 

 

The right-wing infobubble (fueled now in part by Russian subterfuge implicitly supported by the right-wing) is basically impenetrable. Man, the US is really fucked.

 

The right-wing infobubble isn't what's brought down M4A in polling.

 

It's now being debated. People know it means the elimination of crappy private insurance but are used to crappy private insurance. The popularity is down but the fact that it's even at a third is damned impressive on its own considering how ambitious a plan it is.

 

And we have fakers like Buttigieg who try to triangulate with a Medicare-For-All-Who-Want-It-Plan, which means it's worked to change the conversation.

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43 minutes ago, CitizenVectron said:

The right-wing infobubble (fueled now in part by Russian subterfuge implicitly supported by the right-wing) is basically impenetrable. Man, the US is really fucked.

The infobubble can be really seen clearly with polling numbers on impeachment. You can clearly see around 35% of Americans are completely locked into Hannity's evening propaganda show and other similar right wing info sources. 

 

2 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

The right-wing infobubble isn't what's brought down M4A in polling.

 

It's now being debated. People know it means the elimination of crappy private insurance but are used to crappy private insurance. The popularity is down but the fact that it's even at a third is damned impressive on its own considering how ambitious a plan it is.

 

And we have fakers like Buttigieg who try to triangulate with a Medicare-For-All-Who-Want-It-Plan, which means it's worked to change the conversation.

I agree the right wing infobubble didn't take down M4A.  I think Warren did a poor job of defending it by initially ignoring questions about how she would pay for it as other candidates attacked it.  I would point out that if all the other Democratic candidates can successful cast doubt on it, Republicans would probably be able to do more damage to support during a general when they deploy their war chest. 

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9 minutes ago, Massdriver said:

The infobubble can be really seen clearly with polling numbers on impeachment. You can clearly see around 35% of Americans are completely locked into Hannity's evening propaganda show and other similar right wing info sources. 

 

I agree the right wing infobubble didn't take down M4A.  I think Warren did a poor job of defending it by initially ignoring questions about how she would pay for it as other candidates attacked it.  I would point out that if all the other Democratic candidates can successful cast doubt on it, Republicans would probably be able to do more damage to support during a general when they deploy their war chest. 

 

On the other hand, it doesn't have unified support. If Warren or Sanders is the nominee, there will be more money put into defending it and making a unified health care pitch in general. I also think Sanders is a good salesman for these kinds of programs because the shortcoming he has compared to Warren -- inability to parse out policy details as well as she can -- is also a strength of his by distilling why a program is essential for a first world country in a very easy-to-follow way.

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57 minutes ago, SaysWho? said:

 

On the other hand, it doesn't have unified support. If Warren or Sanders is the nominee, there will be more money put into defending it and making a unified health care pitch in general. I also think Sanders is a good salesman for these kinds of programs because the shortcoming he has compared to Warren -- inability to parse out policy details as well as she can -- is also a strength of his by distilling why a program is essential for a first world country in a very easy-to-follow way.

But it's an uphill battle. Maybe Sanders could convince people that it is a good thing, but maybe not. It's not clear either way.

 

This is only one poll though. I haven't seen M4A poll this low anywhere else unless I missed it. This could be an outlier. The Sanders/Butti support levels are also out of step with other recent polls. A politico poll just released had Sanders in second and it was pretty recent.

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3 hours ago, CitizenVectron said:

However...this hinges on the idea that as taxes go up (for M4A), companies will increase wages as they no longer have to compensate with medical plans. But let's be realistic - if most American employers were told that they could save $10,000 per year per employee, do we think that they would give 100% of that money back to the employees? No, they would pocket most of it because at this point the capital class is hell-bent on stripping the country of its copper wiring before it all falls apart anyway.

 

 

Can confirm, I tried to negotiate a higher wage since I was going waive the healthcare benefits, didn't even get a counter offer, they saved $4,600. 

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Quote

Politico also described the relationship between Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-Mass.) and Obama as “famously complicated.” The former president reportedly said in a private conversation that if Democrats supported her when she was considering a 2016 run, it would serve as a rejection of his economic policies. 

I guess Barack is a Mayo Pete kinda guy.

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39 minutes ago, SFLUFAN said:

I guess Barack is a Mayo Pete kinda guy.

Quote

 Obama was deeply skeptical about the prospects of Mayor Pete Buttigieg.

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2019/11/26/barack-obama-2020-democrats-candidates-biden-073025

 

He may agree with him on some issues, but it doesn't seem like he thinks he could win.

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How Kamala Harris' campaign unraveled

 

Quote

“This is my third presidential campaign and I have never seen an organization treat its staff so poorly,” Ms. Mehlenbacher wrote, assailing Mr. Rodriguez and Ms. Harris’s sister, Maya, the campaign chairwoman, for laying off aides with no notice. “With less than 90 days until Iowa we still do not have a real plan to win.”

 

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1 hour ago, Jose said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-no-democratic-front-runner/

 

That's from October 2003. Kerry was in 5th. There's a non-zero chance that the Democratic nominee isn't one of the top 4 right now.

 

People also eventually forget who was in the lead. Edwards was competitive in Iowa in 2008 and could have won. Romney was doing very well and Huckabee fuckabeed him in Iowa. I do remember these names, but only because I was impressed by how much they imploded. :p 

 

Clark 12%
Gephardt 10%
Lieberman 9%
Dean 9%
Kerry 8%
Moseley-Braun 4%
Sharpton 3%
Graham 3%
Edwards 2%
Kucinich 1%

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5 hours ago, Jose said:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/poll-no-democratic-front-runner/

 

That's from October 2003. Kerry was in 5th. There's a non-zero chance that the Democratic nominee isn't one of the top 4 right now.

Not really comparable, the top 5 add up to 50%, the top 4 today add up to 80+% of the current group, then its 10 candidates getting the last 20%, candidates literally have to start dying to make up that kind of ground, we have just over 2 months to go.

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5 hours ago, PaladinSolo said:

Not really comparable, the top 5 add up to 50%, the top 4 today add up to 80+% of the current group, then its 10 candidates getting the last 20%, candidates literally have to start dying to make up that kind of ground, we have just over 2 months to go.

Yup. The odds that the winner comes out of this top 4 is *significantly* higher than in the 2004 contest. Biden alone has a better shot of winning than the entire rest of the field starting with #5 combined.

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I've been updating the OP throughout this primary season. From the OP:

 

DROPPED OUT

 

Bill de Blasio - Mayor of New York City

Steve Bullock - Governor of Montana

Kirsten Gillibrand - US Senator from New York

Mike Gravel - Former Senator from Alaska

John Hickenlooper - Former Governor of Colorado

Jay Inslee - Governor of Washington

Wayne Messam - Mayor from Miramar, Florida

Seth Moulton - US Representative from Massachusetts

Richard Ojeda - Former State Senator from West Virginia

Beto O'Rourke - Former US Representative from Texas

Tim Ryan - US Representative from Ohio

Mark Sanford (R) - Former Governor from South Carolina

Joe Sestak - Former U.S. Representative from Pennsylvania

Eric Swalwell - U.S. Representative from California

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